Hare Krishna
All glories to srila prabhupad
Due to envious of lord Krishna we (soul) put into this material world
So what is the Vedic reference of this?
Ys
pruthvi
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krsna-conscious-links/forum/t...
LINKS ON..THE INTERNAL POTENCY OF LORD KRISHNA
no one falls from golok vrindavan.. krishna says in bhagvad gita ch 15: yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama
but jiva falls from spiritual sky which supports numerous vaikuntha planets
Hare Krsna pr
pamho
The jivas have been put into this material world and they were enjoying with Krsna in spiritual world, the clear reference you can get about this from BRIHAD BHAGAVATAM written by SANATANA GOSWAMI where he gives an example of a jeeva GOPA KUMARA who met Krsna after going back to spiritual world from material world and Krsna tells him the entire story how he left Krsna from spiritual world. So many senior TEMPLE PRESIDENTS and devotees have said about this that we were in SPIRITUAL WORLD AND FELL FROM THERE. IN BRIHAD BHAGAVATAM IT IS CLEARLY MENTIONED ABOUT GOPA KUMARA WHOSE STORY IS BEING RECITED BY KRSNA HIMSELF. THE EXACT VERSE AND DETAILS YOU CAN GET FROM BRIHAD BHAGAVATAM. The links is here
http://ebooks.iskcondesiretree.info/pdf/Gaudiya_Books%20/Sanatana_G...
YS
The conclusion is that there is a possibility to fall but it never happens because devotees put themselves under the mercy of Radharani, the spiritual potency. They are fearless and always eager to serve Krishna.
Hope this gives ur answer, Darian.
Yes it does. It means there is choice to enter back here even on Vaikuntha. I guess it doesn't matter if its not forced but is a choice.
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all . . . do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krishna’s service," and they are happy in Krishna’s service.
Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. Yes?
Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krishnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back.
Prabhupada: No! There is possibility. But he does not come. Just like--after putting your hand in the fire--you never put it again, if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Lecture on Cc., Adi-lila, 7.108 in S.F., 2-18-67
So therefore the conclusion is the criminal jivas such as ourselves are only the ones that can falldown from the spiritual worlds? The ones whom chose god in the begining are eternally liberated, but the criminal jivas that chose the material worlds can fall even when liberated, thus that means traces of ignorance are not entirely wiped out in us even when liberated.
Origin of the Jiva Soul
by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja
How does the soul first appear in this world? From what stage of spiritual existence does he fall into the material world?" This is a broad question, which requires some background information.
There are two classes of souls, jivas, who come into this world. One class comes from the spiritual Vaikuntha planets by the necessity of nitya-lila, the eternal pastimes of Krsna. Another comes by constitutional necessity.
The brahmajyoti, the nondifferentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and thebrahmajyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms.
Generally, souls emanate from the brahmajyoti which is living and growing. Within the brahmajyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From nondifferentiation, differentiation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication.
Krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi bahirmukha . Anadi means that which has no beginning. When we enter the land of exploitation, we come within the factor of time, space, and thought. And when we come to exploit, action and reaction begins in the negative land of loan. Although we strive to become masters, really we become losers.
Goloka and Vaikuntha servitors are also seen to be within the jurisdiction of the brahmanda, the material universe, but that is only a play, lila. They come from that higher plane only to take part in the Lord's pastimes and then return. The fallen souls come from the marginal position within the brahmajyoti and not from Vaikuntha.
The first position of a soul in the material world will be like that of Brahma the creator. Then his karma may take him to the body of a beast like a tiger where he is surrounded with a tigerish mentality, or to the body of a tree or creeper, where different impressions may surround him. In this way, one is involved in action and reaction. The case is complex; to analyze the details of the history of a particular atom is unnecessary. We are concerned with the general thing: how the transformation of the material conception springs from pure consciousness.
Matter is not independent of spirit. In the brahmajyoti we are equipoised in the marginal potency as an infinite number of pinpoints of spiritual rays, electrons of consciousness. Consciousness means endowed with free will, for without free will no consciousness can be conceived. An atomic pinpoint of consciousness has very meager free will, and by misuse of their free will some jivas have taken their chance in the material world. They refused to submit to the supreme authority; they wanted to dominate. So, with this germinal idea of domination, the jiva enters into the world of exploitation. In the Bhagavad-gita (7.27) it is stated:
At first, sympathy and apathy develop in a crude form, just as when a sprout springs up with two leaves. And gradually these two things help us to dive deep into this mundane world. Upon retiring from the world of exploitation, the soul may return to his former position in the brahmajyoti as spirit. But, if the soul has gathered the tendency of dedication through his previous devotional activities, he does not stop there; he pierces through the brahmajyoti and goes towards Vaikuntha.
Why has the soul come to the world of "exploitation" and not the world of dedication? That should be attributed to his innate nature, which is endowed with free will. It is a free choice. This is substantiated in the Bhagavad-gita (5. 14):
The responsibility is with the soul, otherwise, the Lord would be responsible for his distressed condition. But Krsna says that the soul's innate free will is responsible for his entanglement in the material world. The soul is conscious, and consciousness means endowed with freedom. Because the soul is atomic, his free will is imperfect and vulnerable. The result of that free choice is that some are coming into the material world, and some are going to the spiritual world. So, the responsibility is with the individual soul.
Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Cakravarti, asked our spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada, "Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva ?" Prabhupada told him, ""You are fighting for freedom. Don't you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter." Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ""We want freedom."' They replied, "You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you." But finally, he told them, "We want the freedom to do wrong." So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.
Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination. As a result of this first action, everything else has developed. So, in different ranks the species have been divided from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way. The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved."
Hare Krishna!!!
Jivas never fall from the spiritual world,Goloka. In Goloka, everything is formed of Lord's spiritual potency, cit shakti. There is no duality of matter and spirit. So there is no question of envy because envy is born of matter. It is an effect of inferior energy, not the superior energy. Envy causes bondage but in Krishna's abode, there is only freedom and love. How can envy exist? Darkness and light can't co-exist.
Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit... When he desired to have His adherent attendance 'nitya parshada ' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka- Vrindavana, Vaikuntha, etc, He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parshada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds... Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarshana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Sri Narayana. -Bhaktivinode Thakura,Jaiva Dharma,Chapter 15
The ordinary jivas are not formed of cit shakti but tatastha shakti or marginal potency.
Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-shakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha shakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya ... As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-shakti that begets thejivas, and not the chit-shakti.-Bhaktivinode Thakura, Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 15
It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. (Tattva-viveka 2.4, purp.)
These jivas that are born of marginal potency possesss certain degree of independence. As they originated between the transcendental and mundane spheres, they are given independence to make a choice between Lord and Maya. The intelligent jivas choose Lord and they are allowed to associate with the nitya siddhas or the eternally liberated souls in Goloka or vaikuntha. But those jivas who turn their faces away from Lord with envy, craving to be the master rather than serve Lord, are put in the cage of this body and sent to this material world. Therefore Prabhupada says that this material world is a prison house for those criminal jivas who are called baddha jivas or conditioned souls.
One should not think that nitya-siddhas fall from spiritual world as Krishna confirms in Gita---
na tad bhasayate suryo
na sasanko na pavakah
yad gatva na nivartante
tad dhama paramam mama
TRANSLATION
That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world.
-
1
-
2
of 2 Next