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Hare Krishna,

I had a doubt some 7-8 mnths back. I tried to clarify this doubt but nobody could help me with exact answer.

I was said that I will understand this with time but this question
is related to mind not to heart. It is related to concept not conviction.

Bcoz of this long persisting doubt, I am not able to practice full heartedly.

Plz help me wid following:  

My question is:


The purpose of creation is

1. to make us understand that we can not be
happy with out Krishna

2. to reform us (to make us understand our mistake)

But I have doubt if soul is actually a given chance to be happy. It is bcoz of following:

1. There is pre-requisite which facilitates the main event. For being
happy, pre-requisite is absence of misery.

2. But, the way this world is created (to be miserable), itself
contradicts the claim that we are given chance to be happy.
Doesn't matter how much good karma one has, he has to undergo miseries
as birth, old age, disease, death.
There are innumerable other miseries a person suffers daily such as
financial problems, family problems, emotional problems, pollution, traffic jam,
stress, material anxiety and this count is endless.

I remember Radheshyam pr saying that happiness in this world is time
between two miserable events.

3. Being surrounded by so many anxieties, person thinks that cause of
his not being happy is presence of miseries but not absence of
Krishna from his life. And these 2 things (presence of miseries and
absence of Krishna) are mutually exclusive (I meant it was
possible to have a material place without problems listed in point 2).

Figure attached herewith:
We can get convinced that we can not be happy without god when we are
on Y axis: when there are no miseries and we still feel unsatisfied at heart.
But, in this world we are put on -ve x axis (yellow region), so person
thinks miseries are cause of unsatisfied heart.

4. So, a person doesn't get a chance to check out if can be happy
without god or not. As per scriptures, he has to assume that his
anxieties are not because of miseries but bcoz of his forgetfulness of Krishna.
But he thinks it is bcoz of miseries and try to curb miseries life
after life after life but design of material world is such that
it is unbreakable bond. And this cycle continues.

I understand that souls in higher planets don't have to undergo misery. Then
it is easy to understand that happiness is not inverse function of
misery but it comes from souls connection to Krishna.But on this
planet, unlike higher planets, midst of so many problems, soul cant even
try to be happy.
A person in problems knows what is solution of problems, e.g. - ill
person can see that there is healthy person, a poor can see that there
is rich person, problem is there but driven by laws of Karma, person
does not have access to what he thinks is the solution.
Soul can try but he can never get to a position which is free from all
miseries, which is pre-requisite of state of being happy.

What I want to understand is, when we say a soul can 'try' then he
should be at point when he has suitable circumstances to do that. But
this is not condition in world.
So how is a soul supposed to understand that his state of not being
happy is because of being away from Krishna, not because of problem he
is undergoing.

Sorry if i have used any wrong word by mistake.

yas

life axis.png

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  • E-Counselor

    Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

    PAMHO.

    I will attempt to answer your questions to the best my knowledge and ability.

    The purpose of creation is

    1. to make us understand that we can not be
    happy with out Krishna

    I dont agree prabhuji. The purpose of creation is the spiritual desire of the supreme lord. The lord desired and therefore He created.

    2. to reform us (to make us understand our mistake)
    This material world is akin to a jail. When we send someone to jail, it is so that the person does not create disturbance in society and gets a chance to reform himself. Similarly, we came to this material world because of our desire to enjoy, independent of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, the lord provided us with this world, so that we can fulfill our desire to lord it over our mini universe (our friends, family and people known to us).

    The soul is qualitatively equal to the spirit soul - it is also sat cit anand = eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. However, the material world is dukhalayam ashashwatam - temporary and ful of miseries. Like one cannot separate the innate qualities of light and heat from fire, one cannot separate the innate qualites of misery and temporary ness from this world. Therefore, though the soul is trying to be happy in this material world, it is only encountering miseries and whatever happiness it gets, is sadly temporary.
    The purpose of sending us to this jail - to this material world, is to fulfill our desire - our limited freedom to desire, to lord it over the world. Misery is a byproduct of our decision to come back to this material world.

    Some see it as - unless we encounter miseries, how will we question the purpose of life and make endeavour to go back home, back to godhead.

     

    But I have doubt if soul is actually a given chance to be happy. It is bcoz of following:

    1. There is pre-requisite which facilitates the main event. For being
    happy, pre-requisite is absence of misery.

     

    There is no such pre requisite prabhuji. Examples are stories of pure devotees like Prahlada Maharaj and gopis of Vrindavan. Prahlad Maharaj was subjected to untold miseries and life threatening obstacles, at the tender age of 5, by his own father. Still there is no report of Prahlada Maharaj crying or pleading for mercy. He was still happy - because his mind was fixed on the lord. Gopis of Vrindavan, we all know, waited and lamented out of separation from the lord for the better part of their lives, still that is the highest form of devotion, because they are in prema bhava. Therefore, the pre requisite of happiness is not the absence of misery. It is connecting to the supreme lord.

    Even in the material world, it is said - happiness is a state of the mind that has to be cultivated. A person who is happy is not one who has everything, but one who has made the most of what he has.

    2. But, the way this world is created (to be miserable), itself
    contradicts the claim that we are given chance to be happy.

    We are given a perverted taste of happiness - whatever happiness is there in the material world is temporary, so that we can get some taste and then hanker after the real thing. Therefore there is no contradiction.


    Doesn't matter how much good karma one has, he has to undergo miseries
    as birth, old age, disease, death.

    That is the quality of this material world prabhu. If you want to be rid of these 4, then you have to go to the spiritual world.
    There are innumerable other miseries a person suffers daily such as
    financial problems, family problems, emotional problems, pollution, traffic jam,
    stress, material anxiety and this count is endless.

    I remember Radheshyam pr saying that happiness in this world is time
    between two miserable events.

    3. Being surrounded by so many anxieties, person thinks that cause of
    his not being happy is presence of miseries but not absence of
    Krishna from his life. And these 2 things (presence of miseries and
    absence of Krishna) are mutually exclusive (I meant it was
    possible to have a material place without problems listed in point 2).

     

    Its the material illusion prabhuji, to think he is not happy because of multifold miseries. Yes, presence of Krsna or love for Krsna is mutually exclusive from absence of miseries. People who are tired of the miseries of this material world and aspire for "mukti" are the ones who land up in brahmajyoti - because while they want their material miseries to end, they do not want to connect to Krsna.

    Figure attached herewith:
    We can get convinced that we can not be happy without god when we are
    on Y axis: when there are no miseries and we still feel unsatisfied at heart.
    But, in this world we are put on -ve x axis (yellow region), so person
    thinks miseries are cause of unsatisfied heart.
     Figure not visible, cant comment.


    4. So, a person doesn't get a chance to check out if can be happy
    without god or not.

    Persons do get to figure that out prabhuji. Examples are - people of rich countries, where one does not haev to bother with basic necessities of life still get into depression. It is also visible that people from wealthy families, who seem to be having everything in this world, get caught up in depression. They have no miseries, but they have not connected to Krsna, making them depressed.

    As per scriptures, he has to assume that his
    anxieties are not because of miseries but bcoz of his forgetfulness of Krishna.
    But he thinks it is bcoz of miseries and try to curb miseries life
    after life after life but design of material world is such that
    it is unbreakable bond. And this cycle continues.

    Already explained before - material world is dukhalayam ashaswatam.

     

    I understand that souls in higher planets don't have to undergo misery. Then
    it is easy to understand that happiness is not inverse function of
    misery but it comes from souls connection to Krishna.But on this
    planet, unlike higher planets, midst of so many problems, soul cant even
    try to be happy.

    There are scriptural references that Indra has also fallen prey to envy and lust, what to speak of other demigods. Happiness is not the inverse function of misery prabhuji. Already explained - gopis and devotees like Prahlad.

    You show me ONE instance of soul not trying to be happy for even ONE INSTANCE. The soul is forever active, forever trying to be happy. It hankers and hankers, but does not achieve happiness. Because it is trying to be happy independent of Krsna. The moment the soul learns to connect with Krsna, it starts to get the taste and starts the journey to eternal happiness.
    A person in problems knows what is solution of problems, e.g. - ill
    person can see that there is healthy person, a poor can see that there
    is rich person, problem is there but driven by laws of Karma, person
    does not have access to what he thinks is the solution.
    Soul can try but he can never get to a position which is free from all
    miseries, which is pre-requisite of state of being happy.

    That is the problem. Soul being marginal potency of the lord, has forgotten its eternal relationship with Krsna. Therefore, the diagnosis of the problem and the solution, though being there in our scriptures and Gita, is not known to all.


    What I want to understand is, when we say a soul can 'try' then he
    should be at point when he has suitable circumstances to do that. But
    this is not condition in world.
    So how is a soul supposed to understand that his state of not being
    happy is because of being away from Krishna, not because of problem he
    is undergoing.

    When the person starts inquiring - why am I suffering? What is the purpose of life? Who am I? Then his spiritual journey begins - the first step is to understand - I am not the body, I am the soul.

     

    Prabhuji, I have answered in short, because the mail is becoming very long. If you chant attentively, it will remove the doubts from your mind. Dont let these questions block your devotion. Chanting is the most effective method to rid the mind of doubts and illusion.

     

    If there is a bhaktivriksha in your city, please find out from the local ISKCON temple and join. It is the most systematic and easy method to get initiated into the philosophy and devotional service.

     

    I hope I have made some sense to you and not upset you in any way.

    Haribol,

    Your servant,

    Rashmi

     

    • thank you so much mataji!

      i know it was very long question to even go through.

      Most of my doubts are cleared.

  • Hare Krishna..


    I am not sure if I have understood the mathematics and reasoning in your question :) but let me try to answer you. You may get back with your questions if you have.


    2. But, the way this world is created (to be miserable), itself
    contradicts the claim that we are given chance to be happy.

    We are given a chance to realize what we are. As per my experience, realization comes when you come across many miseries in life. At that time, you would feel that you are not the controller of the situations that are happening around you. That is when you introspect yourself and try to understand what you are and whom you belong to. Until then you will be in illusion that you are happy or sad based on the situations that are happening in your life.

    Doesn't matter how much good karma one has, he has to undergo miseries
    as birth, old age, disease, death.

    There are innumerable other miseries a person suffers daily such as
    financial problems, family problems, emotional problems, pollution, traffic jam,
    stress, material anxiety and this count is endless.

    Karma, either good or bad, will have the results and the soul has to take a form to live those results. If you do not want a birth, you need to acquire the qualities of Brahman. You have to transcend above the karmas of life. That is possible only when you follow the principles as suggested by the Lord in Gita. Sacrifice yourself in Brahman. Only then you will merge into the Brahman after your current life form.

    3. Being surrounded by so many anxieties, person thinks that cause of
    his not being happy is presence of miseries but not absence of
    Krishna from his life.

    It is true that if a person is surrounded by so many anxieties, he thinks that it is because of his miseries. But also remember that the person has done good karma in his current life or past life. So, there will be surely God's grace upon him. That will remove the illusion(Maya) from his mind. Only then he would realize that it is because of him not looking unto the Lord that he was suffering all the while. So, certainly, without God's grace, we cannot get that realization. So, its not true that the person remains in these miseries forever. By the God's grace, and his good karma, he is sure to overcome in this life or some other.

    4. So, a person doesn't get a chance to check out if can be happy
    without god or not. As per scriptures, he has to assume that his
    anxieties are not because of miseries but bcoz of his forgetfulness of Krishna.
    But he thinks it is bcoz of miseries and try to curb miseries life
    after life after life but design of material world is such that
    it is unbreakable bond. And this cycle continues.

    As I stated above, a person, only by the Grace of Lord, will get a chance to read a book(scripture) in first place, understand it and apply it in his life for realization. If that grace is absent, then even though the person reads the scriptures, he will not be able to understand its essence. And that Grace comes only by the past good karmas done by that person in his life forms. So, again, its not an unbreakable bond. The cycle will break by His divine grace.

    In my case, I was given The Bhagavad Gita book by a devotee outside Lord Venkateswara temple. Initially, I read it but couldnt get the meaning. Only after 7 years, again, I opened the book because I was going through lot of turmoil in my life and I was in a situation that I was being crushed within the walls on four sides and I had nowhere to go. At that time I was able to understand it. 
    So, I believe that it is because of God's grace I was able to read His instructions and understand His words. Until then I was in illusion. I used to think that I was the controller of the situations around me. But now I feel how silly I was to think like that :)

    I dont know how much I have answered your questions, but DO HAVE FAITH in HIM and He would surely deliver you.

    If you have any more queries, you can get back.


    Regards,
    Subash

    • thank you Subhas prabhuji!

      It helped me clear my doubts. 

  • HARE KRISHNA,

    For example, A part of machine is useful until it is associate with machine, otherwise part of machine have no value. Similarly we are part and parcel of Lord, We have no separate value without Lord, Lord has created us for his pleasure, but due to our mistakes, somehow or other we are separated from Lord, now we are like servants without master, who is wandering aimlessly from one state to another, falsely thinking our-self to be Lord of all, Lord can control material energy as he is omnipotent but infinitesimal living entity become subject to this material energy which is simply illusion, thus living entity get miseries by his own deeds..

    Lord says in Bhagvad Gita :- 

    Bg 15.7 The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.  

    Bg 15.8 — The living entity in the material world carries his different conceptions of life from one body to another, as the air carries aromas. Thus he takes one kind of body and again quits it to take another.

    Bg 15.9 — The living entity, thus taking another gross body, obtains a certain type of ear, eye, tongue, nose and sense of touch, which are grouped about the mind. He thus enjoys a particular set of sense objects.

    Bg 15.10 — The foolish cannot understand how a living entity can quit his body, nor can they understand what sort of body he enjoys under the spell of the modes of nature. But one whose eyes are trained in knowledge can see all this.

    Thus this world is perverted reflection of original world which is created by the Lord, And we are trying to enjoy this material world understand it to be real but we only gain miseries one after another.... 

    SB 2.9.2 — The illusioned living entity appears in so many forms offered by the external energy of the Lord. While enjoying in the modes of material nature, the encaged living entity misconceives, thinking in terms of “I” and “mine.”

     SB 2.9.34 — O Brahmā, whatever appears to be of any value, if it is without relation to Me, has no reality. Know it as My illusory energy, that reflection which appears to be in darkness.

    Still Krishna is so mercy, he comes again and again to take back home the fallen souls, and not only this he maintains all these souls and provide them what they need although this world last for a moment for God & temporary still God has provided us what we need but not for our greed....

     SB 2.10.42 — He, the Personality of Godhead, as the maintainer of all in the universe, appears in different incarnations after establishing the creation, and thus He reclaims all kinds of conditioned souls amongst the humans, the nonhumans and the demigods.

     Bg 4.8 — To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.

    Thus now lord is distributing his fruit of mercy in form of his pure holy names to everyone and in form of Lord Chaitanya he is saying...

     CC Ādi 9.34 — “I am the only gardener. How many places can I go? How many fruits can I pick and distribute? CC Ādi 9.35 — “It would certainly be a very laborious task to pick the fruits and distribute them alone, and still I suspect that some would receive them and others would not.

    CC Ādi 9.36 — “Therefore I order every man within this universe to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and distribute it everywhere.

    CC Ādi 9.37 — “I am the only gardener. If I do not distribute these fruits, what shall I do with them? How many fruits can I alone eat?

    CC Ādi 9.38 — “By the transcendental desire of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, water has been sprinkled all over the tree, and thus there are innumerable fruits of love of Godhead.

    CC Ādi 9.39 — “Distribute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. Let people eat these fruits and ultimately become free from old age and death.

    • thank you sagar prabhuji! It helped me clear my doubts.

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