I know we suffer bcoz of our karmas , but does HE even care when we are in pain .
I'm not only talking about physical pain but also mental and emotional pain .
I'm certain God knows very well that his children all over the world are suffering due to their bad deeds which they committed either in their past lives or in the present one . But my question is does God's heart bleeds for the poor and homeless people living in the streets ... for the ones who have lost their loved ones and are in deep grief ... for the ones who have speech problems and/or psychological problems who can't even chant god's name properly ... for the ones starving in Africa ?
I know the Lord wants us to chant his names so that we could escape all material sufferings , but what about those who can't chant , like a coma patient or a guy with a loss of memory .
Does that mean God won't show his mercy on such people , and will only come to the rescue the moment they start chanting .
Sometimes i think he is full of Ego , always wants us to chant his names and those who won't are doomed .
I would like to know whether the Lord has said anything in Gita or in other vedic scriptures about his love for his children , especially for those who are in pain .
Replies
from the highest intellectual being lord bramha down to the insignificant ant all of them are enjoying the material world according to the desiresof the subtle mind and gross body the gross material body is based on the conditions of subtle mind and the senses are created according to the desire of the living being the lord as parmatma helps he propose lord disposes the suffering and enjoyment are indirectly the suffering and enjoyment of father
still the father is not any way affecteddirectly by the suffering and enjoyment of the sons he is so kind he costantly remains with the living being as paramatma and always tries to convert the living being towards the real happiness
Those who suffer in poverty have opportunity to recieve Lords mercy by helplessly shouting His name,
but others dont have such opportunity, because of comfort life, proudness and sense gratification.
What to talk about sadhu association, which those who are not in helpless condition can just dream about.
On end of creation, all conditioned souls enter Lords body to rest from their samsara and illusion. We can consider that as His compassion, what to talk about His incarnations and activities in material world for ultimate benefit of all. What to talk about His holy names which even incorrecly spoken saves from going to hell.
Those who cant realize that Lords lotus feet are only medicine for all problems, cant fully surrender despite all the effort . Partial surrendering is not same as completely surrendering.
The Lord likes to be exclusive and only savior, those who disagree with that,
completely surrendering for them remains just a dream.
Have a look how faithfull women in a helpless condition are saved by God :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wGbCNDw-m0
(2:47 - 3:00)
Therefore, who but faithless materialists claims God to be heartless.
Greetings Aniruda prahbu all glory to the conclusive Truth the Vedas & (HHPA) & all of His assembled devotees.
In Attempting to pigeonhole an understanding of Krishna's concern in such an intiment proximity as to enquire into the welfare of Nitch-groups & individuals is sympathetic of you & well Too does it seem' U-have an understanding of karma (some).
Empathetic"To Simphthise with another do-to having had or are having the (exact Same) experience-(
How that spears with the mood of celebration (I)'m not sure?
However, that is not the topic or (Q).- vzDoe's Krishna's Heart plead w/pain as others suffer "?
1st.ly Krishna knows the hearts of all & past & future of all.
So to question His Justus is futile-obviously! Sence He is the formost Knower of the truth?
Next, Imagine Krishna's energies as the for most grounding force greater even the constant 14Lb.psi-gravity/pressure we exp. moment to moment on this planet.
& far superior in qualitative experience and potential than the mere enersha of being dragged through an ever expanding creation by (The North Star) & So, anyway Krishna's (HeartEnergies i.e. InternalPotencies) are the most Sacred & healing and creative n all existence. And "are reserved for those who have accomplished & gained Hi's unconditional trust" glory to the glorious Vishnavas Acharieas who take mercy on the bewildered Souls & teachers us somehOw or other!
(Agency's) as we know Krishna has many sub agency's who possess different dispositions and degrees of His correctness & I.e. creative potency & agendas. So many Subtal Laws come into the equation as one envisions the protective tendency s of the materially attached to other persons, personal Pride & Things, so who could blame Krishna if His Recwasit, magic equation & required commitment renunciation of solutions of time distance and circumstance & becoming modestly & reverently disposed towards Him His devotees & His /capacity to descend (someHow or other) to vanquish the darkness & reestablish faith in reality theough direct experience of personal deliverance. I.e. consider this if a (real'yogi, was seeking to deliver this entire world from any one or all of the (pains related to this existence for the self alone or from this planet at-Large I'm certain (by Krishna's arrangement it could be done, So what are you waiting for,tell KRISHNA!
P.s. The Nature of Krishna's chonchusness is heavy but Suffer It & forever & well will you live! -)
B-happy at our chance to Know & grow to Love the incomparable GodHeads & lament little for the eternal jivAut. Let's just take this as y-ourTurn '-) (want & become happy healthy wealthy ( Wise?
I must disagree with you.
In the Gita it is said that the wise lament neither for the living nor the dead. Krishna is the source of wisdom, so he must have this quality. At the same time, though, he is the most merciful and loving person ever. As Caitanya is an incarnation of God, you can see that he was very merciful and wanted even the most fallen souls to have a chance to redeem themselves.
It is also said that while Krishna pays special attention to his devotees, he is impartial to all, loving every entity the same. If this is true he must care about all the suffering entities just as much as his devotees. He doesn't want us to suffer but he allows us to make our own mistakes due to his unlimited mercy. So by this idea, human suffering is an act of mercy by Krishna.
The way I see it, material misery is always temporary so no matter how terrible or long lasting it is, eventually when we surrender to Krishna it won't matter compared to the ocean of infinite bliss we will come to know in our service to him. This is my understanding. So Krishna can see that since the suffering is temporary, it is worth it. We cannot see from the same perspective so we think "oh God is cruel for allowing such suffering." But we cannot see the whole picture in which eventually that suffering soul comes to peace with God and is alleviated of all suffering.
In my opinion, the idea of Krishna as an egotistical god who needs the affection of all devotees is immature. I instead picture a very patient lover or master who is fully willing, due to love, to "let you go," if that's what you want. He is the fulfiller of all desires so he wants us to be happy, but at the same time he doesn't hesitate to remind us that without him, there can be no real happiness. So we call this suffering but really it is our stubborn sense that we can have happiness apart from Krishna.
Besides, if you look at other religions, many people in those faiths have come to know God, so he shows mercy to everyone, not just to his Bhakti-yoga devotees. Christians can experience religious ecstasy, for example - this is documented. But it is more common to experience ecstasy from chanting since chanting evokes Krishna directly. So from this example it can be said that no, Krishna is not going to necessarily doom those who don't chant. Their karma might "doom" them, but then they're just getting "what they deserve." Krishna is so merciful that he doesn't very much care for official and formal rules.
He is extremely happy that you are trying to make association with him and he will help you to do this, as he said in the bhagavad gita.
As for those who are starving, we would be told that it is their karma that caused them to suffer so much. I read somewhere that Krishna cries when we cry. And he feels joy when we feel joy. Since we are parts and parcels of Krishna this makes sense to me.
In my view Krishna is an infinitely loving and merciful god. Suffering is just a cause of our being like Krishna and wanting to be independent and happy apart from him. He lets us try to do this. But ultimately he will remind us (often painfully) that we need him. But he is infinitely patient so he will wait.
Please feel free to email me @ chno_is_you1@yahoo.com
If you want to continue discussion. I have to get ready for school now.
Hare Krishna
Jake
Thank you very much
Hare krishna
But from my experience, Krishna is loving, and love involves compassion, which requires sympathy.
I think of the difference between sympathy and empathy. Empathy means the ability to feel what another person is feeling, but sympathy is just compassion. So if you are empathetic to a person who is very sad, you yourself become very sad. But if you are sympathetic, which I think is more wise, you still feel emotions in response to others' sufferings or joys, but you are somewhat detached in that THEIR EMOTIONS DO NOT OVERCOME YOU, TOO. This is how I picture Krishna. Not overcome by all our sufferings, yet still genuinely concerned for our well being and happiness.
Thoughts are very welcome. I do not know for sure about what I'm talking about. I just know Krishna is very loving.
Dear Jake Prabhu,
I appreciate your views. This is indeed a difficult topic. However i will still stick to No in the "feeling the pain part. " I feel just as there is a difference between sympathy and empathy , between attached and affectionate similarly there is a difference in feeling the pain and being compassionate. I believe there will always be a difference in opinion in feeling the material pain part as he himself feels :
"He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anxiety, who is steady in happiness and distress, is very dear to Me."
"One who neither grasps pleasure or grief, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things, is very dear to Me."
One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equiposed in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contamination, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and engaged in devotional service, is very dear to Me.
Krishna is fixed in knowledge and equiposed . He is called Atmaram . We are affected by the above one and this is our mental weakness. we are human beings but Krishna is not. He is above the effects of the three gunas.
I still feel there will always be a difference of opinion and views but anyways it was a lovely discussion after a long time.
Thank you for your response. I shall try to answer. This is a complex topic.
I disagreed with you when you answered this question "does Krishna feel our pain?" with "Honest answer is no." As I explained in my post, I think that Krishna does share in feeling our pain and our joy too. I do concede that he does not lament for our suffering, being wise. However, that does not mean he is not compassionate or doesn't feel our pain. This is just my opinion.
You also said that only those who chant and reach a particular state can feel Krishna's mercy. But I argue that the merciful love of God can be felt by believers of other faiths as well as nonbelievers. Before I was a devotee of Krishna I still felt his mercy and love even though I didn't know it was Him at the time. And like I said, people in other religions can feel ecstasy too. This is a fact. Krishna shows infinite mercy to all living beings in countless ways. But maybe the highest mercy and states can only be obtained by chanting, I don't know. But mercy in general is given by Krishna every day to everyone whether they know it or not, right?
Sorry for the confusion - when I was talking about Krishna being egotistical, I was referring to the original poster's question. Not your response.
I agree with you that Krishna did not lament as Arjuna did over the war. But while He did not lament, I still think that he genuinely felt sympathy and compassion for Arjuna's suffering. So it is just a subtle difference.
Your answer led me to believe that maybe you think that Krishna doesn't care about suffering people (since your straight answer was no), whereas obviously (in my view) he does. He is wisely detached yet He is involved in everything and everyone's lives; and since He loves us so much, He probably feels our pain even more deeply than we do ourselves, and He is even more desirous to have us return to Him than we are (a wise person told me this).
Thank you again for the response. I look forward to your thoughts. Please ask if there is still some confusion.
Hare Krishna
Your friend, Jake
Of course Krishna shows His mercy to everyone otherwise we would be doomed since we're committing mistakes everyday to some extent. The benefits He gives for observing ekadashis in itself blows my mind.
I have to strongly disagree on something however.
This is what you mentioned: "But I argue that the merciful love of God can be felt by believers of other faiths as well as nonbelievers. Before I was a devotee of Krishna I still felt his mercy and love even though I didn't know it was Him at the time. And like I said, people in other religions can feel ecstasy too."
Receiving mercy and feeling mercy is different, everyone receives His mercy but not everyone feels it. Before I started loving Krishna, I knew God was compassionate towards me but knowing it was Krishna made all the difference. Feeling the mercy and acknowledging Krishna makes the difference between not Krishna conscious and being Krishna conscious. It's about our consciousness, His mercy is unquestionable.
Ecstasy. Anyone on drugs and anyone worshipping celebrities feel ecstatic too. The difference like I said, ecstatic about Krishna or ecstatic about something else is the game changer. Different faiths, different demigods, they're part and parcels of Krishna but the worship of 'any gods’ is not equal to the worship of Krishna.
Dear Jake prabhu,
I agree with your opinion. Though I am not sure which part of my post was not as per your satisfaction. I have never mentioned krishna has EGO or he is egoistic God . He is always in suddha satva. He takes care of devotees as promised in Gita. What I have answered is about feeling material pain .
Vaikuntha (without - kuntha ) is a place where associates of Lord also feel no pain of material life . Goloka is highest of the Vaikuntha lokas . The pain felt by Krishna in absence of Radharani is different fro from these material pain. He is ATMARAM . He is full of Knowledge . But he is not known for doing spoon feeding. We face our karmic reactions as we are supposed to. Our suffering makes us strong. failure is one step behind success . He has given us Knowledge and Guru to guide. Thus he is doing his duty towards us. It is upto us if we want to stand up again. Those who are weak minded will curse Him and leave him. I have seen many such devotees.
Even the great sadhakas feel no material pain as they are aware material pain is due to weakness of heart and mind . Arjuna was also in pain but Krishna was not. He taught Arjuna to get rid of mental pain of killing his relatives . Krishna never lamented by seeing Arjuna's lament but indeed guided him with Knowledge . This is what senior devotees taught me .
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