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Do you really think we fall from Goloka Vrindavan or Vaikunta?

Posted by salvadores on January 30, 2009 at 11:51pm
Actually there is not any verse in all the Vedic literature that clearly says we were with Radha and Krsna in Goloka Vrndavan. All the previous acarya from Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya never said that nor Srila Prabhupada has ever said that.He never wrote that in any of his books. He uses many times words such as “back to Godhead” or “our constitutional position” etc… Those statementes can make us wrongly think that, but that does not mean at all that we were in Goloka and we fall from that place.I know it is hard to accept at first. Just like a child, when he becomes a little boy or girl may ask to the parents how do we take birth? And generally parents say that we were brought by a stork or babies are found under a couliflower because the boy is too young to understand what actually took place. Similarly Srila Prabhupada behaved in the same way with his young children. When the children grow up however they can know, if you really want to know the truth, please read Jaiva Dharma, written by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur one of the most prominent previous acarya of Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. From that book you will read that yes, we have fallen from the spiritual world but from the marginal position which is called Tatastha.Tatastha position is a place between the spiritual world and material world like the shore, it is a very narrow line between the sea and the land, sometimes that line is covered by the sea and sometimes not. Tha land is compared to the spiritual world and the sea to the material world. We come from that place:jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasakrsnera tatastha sakti ‘bhedabheda prakasaThe costitutional nature of the jiva is to be an eternal servant of Sri krsna. He is the marginal potency of Krsna and is a manifastation simultaneously one with Him, and different from Him.C.C. Madhiya 20.108We have come from tatastha-sakti, from a manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu called Karanabdisayi Visnu, who is situated on the marginal line, in the Karanabdhi (Causal Ocean). The jivas are not coming to this world from Goloka Vrndavana, nor are they coming from Vaikuntha. They are coming form the marginal line, from the glance of Karanabdhisayi Visnu. Among them, those who look towards Vaikuntha are liberated, and they go there at once without delay. Conversely, those who look toward this world will come here.Jivas are independent because Krsna has made them so. This independence is like a special jewel, and the jivas can use it properly or misuse it. If they using it well, they will quickly go towards Vaikuntha, and if they misuse it they will have to suffer.Here is an example. If you have a sharp sword or knife and you drop some very small and round mustard seeds on it so that they falls in the middle of the sword, some will fall over to one side and some will fall to the other. The jiva has got some independence to go here or there. This is not the fault of Krsna, but rather it is their independence to look here and there. If they look towards Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana, Yogamaya will at once help them and they will go there. On the other hand, those who look towards the material world will be attracted by Mahamaya. Krsna is not at fault here.

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  • Mahesh Kumar Bairwa June 9, 2023 at 5:23pm

    Our Man is a part of Mata Radha Rani. Our body is buid from Prakrati (Mata Radhe Rani). In every object made by Prakrati (Mata Radhe Rani) Parmatma (Bhagwan Sri Krishna) is available. Actually Mata Radhe Rani loves Lord Krishna so much. The only way to make happy Lord Krishna is to present every worldly matter or object first to Lord Krishna and then use the object or matter in form of Prasad for the pleasure of Lord Krishna. Mata Radhe Rani wants that every thing that is made of Prakrati should be offered Lord Krishna first and then should be used only for pleasure of Lord Krishna. When we don't follow this rule and show attachment to any Prakriti object or matter Mata Radhe Rani takes it as a Vikar and we fall from the adobe of Goloka. Our Man (Thoughts) are connected with Mata Radhe Rani so no one can cheat this rule. And that is the only reason why we had fallen from Lord Krishna's adobe. Mata Radhe Rani (Our Man, Prakrati, Woman) is only for the service of Lord Krishna because Lord Krishna is the Pran that makes her (Mata Radhe Rani)'s life lightned. Without Lord Krishna Mata Radhe Rani (Our Man, Prakrati, Woman) is in deep darkness. So Mata Radhe Rani loves Lord Krishna so so much. Everything in every Brahmand is made of matter (Mata Radhe Rani) and Aatma (Lord Krishna). One who has learnt this universal rule in manshik, vachik and kayik ways is already living in Goloka. I am giving all credit of this divine knowledge to our great great Gurus. All the above knowledge is their blessings. Dandwat Pranam to all the Gurudevs. Hare Krishna

  • Theresa Ann Foxglove December 25, 2019 at 6:39pm
    Hare Krishna! This is the first time I have heard that Srila Prabhupada never said that we have fallen from Vrindavan.! I started reading ISKCON literature intensely three years ago and I also listen to H.H. Radhanath Swami lectures every day and I certainly got the impression that we fell from the spiritual world i.e. Vaikuntha/Vrindavan. I questioned a friend who is Brahmin-initiated and has been an ISKCON devotee all her life and asked her to show me where this is stated in scripture. She said that because Krishna never takes a step out of Vrindavan and everything emanates from Krishna we naturally originated in Vrindavan. But this didn't satisfy me. What I am getting at is that this is a very widespread misconception in ISKCON, even among long-standing members. So I was happy to read your explanation above and to hear the H.H. Radhanath Swami lecture that you suggested. This last week I finished a personal reading of the Bhagavad Gita as it is and this subject is taken up in the very last paragraph. The last sentence gave me pause for thought. It tells that when the living entity uses his independence under the direct order of Krishna "he attains his normal condition in the pleasure-giving potency". This seems to indicate that we are all tiny fragments of Sri Radha, who is the pleasure-giving potency. Although I am not advanced enough to study the literatures that describe the intimate manjari-Gopi world of Goloka, Srila Prabhupada's statement seems to point to our constitutional position as servants of Sri Radha. I appreciate that we should not speculate about things that are beyond our power to understand. But the idea that we are suffering in the material world because we are 'fallen' affects our consciousness, our sadhana and our spiritual goals daily in a very profound way. I heard a tape by H.H.Radhanath Swami on Do Not Eat the Forbidden Apple of Envy (2005) in which he examines the story of the 'fall' of Adam and Eve in the Bible, saying that it is an 'allegory'. For me, this explanation is entirely believable. It would be good if the misconceptions around this topic could be more widely disposed of because the idea that ISKCON is said to believe that we fell from Vaikuntha/Vrindavan is often a major issue of dissent when talking with other Gaudiyas. Thank you.
  • Vivek February 18, 2013 at 9:08pm

    Hare Krishna. What happens to the free will of the souls in Goloka Vrndavan? Are they robots who love Krishna? If they have a free will, they can still fall from Goloka. And if they have free will but always choose to love Krishna, why? Why didn't Krishna make all souls, even at tatastha the same as the souls of Goloka? We all would have free will but nobody would have bothered to look at the material world.

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