I have personally noticed a huge increase in cases of divorce these days even in our Krsna Conscious society. There are many reasons behind this increase. I will like to discuss this topic with all of the senior and junior devotees & Srila Prabhupada disciples. Before starting to write about divorce and views of Srila Prabhupada for that, let us discuss a bit about marriage.
- Rite of Brahmana (Brahma) - where the father of the bride invites a man learned in the Vedas and a good conduct, and gives his daughter in marriage to him after decking her with jewels and costly garments.
- Rite of the Gods (Daiva) - where the daughter is groomed with ornaments and given to a priest who duly officiates at a sacrifice during the course of its performance of this rite.
- Rite of the Rishis (Arsha) - when the father gives away his daughter after receiving a cow and a bull from the brightgroom.
- Rite of the Prajapati - (Prajapatya) where the father gives away his daugher after blessing the couple with the text "May both of you perform together your duties"
- Rite of the Asuras (Demons) - when the bridegroom receives a maiden after bestowing wealth to the kinsmen and to the bride according to his own will.
- Rite of the Gandharva - the voluntary union of a maiden and her lover, which arises from desire and sexual intercourse for its purpose.
- Rite of the Rakshasa - forcible abduction of a maiden from her home after her kinsmen have been slain or wounded and their houses broken open.
Rite of the Pisaka - when a man by stealth seduces a girl who is sleeping or intoxicated or is mentally disbalanced or handicapped.
All the above mentioned are the 8 types of marriages according to Manu Smriti (Manu Samhita). Among these 8 types, the best is mixture of Prajapatya and Brahma. But today the marriages happening are mixture of half of the Daiva and Gandharva. Daiva because the bride is groomed with ornaments and given wealth and the point which is given most importance is looks which generates sexual desire with his/ her partner. This type of marriage is destined to have such end which is happening. If we try to understand the marriages which have been of our grandparents, there was a tradition of not seeing the face of each other. Many people will take it as narrow minded view but that's a major thing towards stability of marriage. Let's know now what is said in different scriptures and what are teachings of Srila Prabhupada about divorce:
They are separated or there is divorce, there is lamentation, there is sorrow, etc.BG 18.38, Translation and Purport:
That happiness which is derived from contact of the senses with their objects and which appears like nectar at first but poison at the end is said to be of the nature of passion.
A young man and a young woman meet, and the senses drive the young man to see her, to touch her and to have sexual intercourse. In the beginning this may be very pleasing to the senses, but at the end, or after some time, it becomes just like poison. They are separated or there isdivorce, there is lamentation, there is sorrow, etc. Such happiness is always in the mode of passion. Happiness derived from a combination of the senses and the sense objects is always a cause of distress and should be avoided by all means.
The divorce act is encouraging prostitution, and this should be abolished.Following in the footsteps of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, it is the duty of all executive heads of states to see that the principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, are established in the state, and that the principles of irreligion, namely pride, illicit female association or prostitution, intoxication and falsity, are checked by all means. And to make the best use of a bad bargain, the personality of Kali may be transferred to places of gambling, drinking, prostitution and slaughterhouses, if there are any places like that. Those who are addicted to these irreligious habits may be regulated by the injunctions of the scripture. In no circumstances should they be encouraged by any state. In other words, the state should categorically stop all sorts of gambling, drinking, prostitution and falsity. The state which wants to eradicate corruption by majority may introduce the principles of religion in the following manner:
1. Two compulsory fasting days in a month, if not more (austerity). Even from the economic point of view, such two fasting days in a month in the state will save tons of food, and the system will also act very favorably on the general health of the citizens.
2. There must be compulsory marriage of young boys and girls attaining twenty-four years of age and sixteen years of age respectively. There is no harm in coeducation in the schools and colleges, provided the boys and girls are duly married, and in case there is any intimate connection between a male and female student, they should be married properly without illicit relation. The divorce act is encouraging prostitution, and this should be abolished.
3. The citizens of the state must give in charity up to fifty percent of their income for the purpose of creating a spiritual atmosphere in the state or in human society, both individually and collectively. They should preach the principles of Bhāgavatam by (a) karma-yoga, or doing everything for the satisfaction of the Lord, (b) regular hearing of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from authorized persons or realized souls, (c) chanting of the glories of the Lord congregationally at home or at places of worship, (d) rendering all kinds of service to bhāgavatas engaged in preaching Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and (e) residing in a place where the atmosphere is saturated with God consciousness. If the state is regulated by the above process, naturally there will be God consciousness everywhere.
When the wife is accepted as a sense gratificatory agency, personal beauty is the main consideration, and as soon as there is a break in personal sense gratification, there is disruption or divorce.SB 3.14.19, Purport:By the Vedic injunction, the wife is accepted as the better half of a man's body because she is supposed to be responsible for discharging half of the duties of the husband. A family man has a responsibility to perform five kinds of sacrifices, called pañca-yajña, in order to get relief from all kinds of unavoidable sinful reaction incurred in the course of his affairs. When a man becomes qualitatively like the cats and dogs, he forgets his duties in cultivating spiritual values, and thus he accepts his wife as a sense gratificatory agency. When the wife is accepted as a sense gratificatory agency, personal beauty is the main consideration, and as soon as there is a break in personal sense gratification, there is disruption or divorce. But when husband and wife aim at spiritual advancement by mutual cooperation, there is no consideration of personal beauty or the disruption of so-called love. In the material world there is no question of love. Marriage is actually a duty performed in mutual cooperation as directed in the authoritative scriptures for spiritual advancement. Therefore marriage is essential in order to avoid the life of cats and dogs, who are not meant for spiritual enlightenment.
Not more than twenty-five years ago, and perhaps it is still current, parents in India used to consult the horoscope of the boy and girl to see whether there would be factual union in their psychological conditions. These considerations are very important. Nowadays marriage takes place without such consultation, and therefore, soon after the marriage, there is divorce and separation.SB 3.21.15, Translation and Purport:Therefore, desiring to marry a girl of like disposition who may prove to be a veritable cow of plenty in my married life, to satisfy my lustful desire I too have sought the shelter of Your lotus feet, which are the source of everything, for You are like a desire tree.
In spite of his condemning persons who approach the Lord for material advantages, Kardama Muni expressed his material inability and desire before the Lord by saying, "Although I know that nothing material should be asked from You, I nevertheless desire to marry a girl of like disposition." The phrase "like disposition" is very significant. Formerly, boys and girls of similar dispositions were married; the similar natures of the boy and girl were united in order to make them happy. Not more than twenty-five years ago, and perhaps it is still current, parents in India used to consult the horoscope of the boy and girl to see whether there would be factual union in their psychological conditions. These considerations are very important. Nowadays marriage takes place without such consultation, and therefore, soon after the marriage, there is divorce and separation. Formerly husband and wife used to live together peacefully throughout their whole lives, but nowadays it is a very difficult task. Kardama Muni wanted to have a wife of like disposition because a wife is necessary to assist in spiritual and material advancement. It is said that a wife yields the fulfillment of all desires in religion, economic development and sense gratification.
In the Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto, it is said that in the Kali-yuga marriage will be based on the consideration of sex life; as soon as there is deficiency in sex life, the question of divorce will arise.SB 3.21.15, Purport:It is said that a wife yields the fulfillment of all desires in religion, economic development and sense gratification. If one has a nice wife, he is to be considered a most fortunate man. In astrology, a man is considered fortunate who has great wealth, very good sons or a very good wife. Of these three, one who has a very good wife is considered the most fortunate. Before marrying, one should select a wife of like disposition and not be enamored by so-called beauty or other attractive features for sense gratification. In the Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto, it is said that in the Kali-yuga marriage will be based on the consideration of sex life; as soon as there is deficiency in sex life, the question of divorce will arise.
At the present moment, because boys and girls are not married according to quality and character, most marriages are unhappy, and there is divorce.SB 3.24.15, Purport:According to astrological calculation, a person is classified according to whether he belongs to the godly or demoniac quality. In that way the spouse was selected. A girl of godly quality should be handed over to a boy of godly quality. A girl of demoniac quality should be handed over to a boy of demoniac quality. Then they will be happy. But if the girl is demoniac and the boy is godly, then the combination is incompatible; they cannot be happy in such a marriage. At the present moment, because boys and girls are not married according to quality and character, most marriages are unhappy, and there is divorce.
Generally, separation between husband and wife is due to womanly behavior; divorce takes place due to womanly weakness. The best course for a woman is to abide by the orders of her husband.SB 4.4.3, Purport:According to the Vedic conception of family life, the husband gives half his body to his wife, and the wife gives half of her body to her husband. In other words, a husband without a wife or a wife without a husband is incomplete. Vedic marital relationship existed between Lord Śiva and Satī, but sometimes, due to weakness, a woman becomes very much attracted by the members of her father's house, and this happened to Satī. In this verse it is specifically mentioned that she wanted to leave such a great husband as Śiva because of her womanly weakness. In other words, womanly weakness exists even in the relationship between husband and wife. Generally, separation between husband and wife is due to womanly behavior; divorce takes place due to womanly weakness. The best course for a woman is to abide by the orders of her husband. That makes family life very peaceful. Sometimes there may be misunderstandings between husband and wife, as found even in such an elevated family relationship as that of Satī and Lord Śiva, but a wife should not leave her husband's protection because of such a misunderstanding. If she does so, it is understood to be due to her womanly weakness.
In Vedic civilization the husband and wife were not separated by such man-made laws as divorce. We should understand the necessity for maintaining family life in human society and should thus abolish this artificial law known as divorce.SB 4.23.25, Translation and Purport:The wives of the demigods said: All glories to Queen Arci! We can see that this queen of the great King Pṛthu, the emperor of all the kings of the world, has served her husband with mind, speech and body exactly as the goddess of fortune serves the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Yajñeśa, or Viṣṇu.
In this verse the words yajñeśaṁ śrīr vadhūr iva indicate that Queen Arci served her husband just as the goddess of fortune serves the Supreme Personality of Godhead Viṣṇu. We can observe that even in the history of this world, when Lord Kṛṣṇa, the supreme Viṣṇu, was ruling over Dvārakā, Queen Rukmiṇī, who was the chief of all Kṛṣṇa's queens, used to serve Lord Kṛṣṇa personally in spite of having many hundreds of maidservants to assist her. Similarly, the goddess of fortune in the Vaikuṇṭha planets also serves Nārāyaṇa personally, although there are many thousands of devotees prepared to serve the Lord. This practice is also followed by the wives of the demigods, and in days past the wives of men also followed this same principle. In Vedic civilization the husband and wife were not separated by such man-made laws as divorce. We should understand the necessity for maintaining family life in human society and should thus abolish this artificial law known as divorce. The husband and wife should live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow in the footsteps of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa-Rukmiṇī. In this way peace and harmony can be possible within this world.
In the Western countries this disturbance gives rise to the divorce law, and in Eastern countries like India there is separation. Now this disturbance is confirmed by the new introduction of the divorce law in India.SB 4.25.56, Translation and Purport:Being thus entangled in different types of mental concoction and engaged in fruitive activities, King Purañjana came completely under the control of material intelligence and was thus cheated. Indeed, he used to fulfill all the desires of his wife, the Queen.
When a living entity is in such bewilderment that he is under the control of his wife, or material intelligence, he has to satisfy the intelligence of his so-called wife and act exactly according to her dictates. Various śāstras advise that for material convenience one should keep his wife always satisfied by giving her ornaments and by following her instructions. In this way there will be no trouble in family life. Therefore for one's own social benefit, one is advised to keep his wife satisfied. In this way, when one becomes the servant of his wife, he must act according to the desires of his wife. Thus one becomes more and more entangled. In Bengal it is said that if one becomes an obedient servant of his wife, he loses all reputation. However, the difficulty is that unless one becomes a most obedient servant of his wife, family life becomes disturbed. In the Western countries this disturbance gives rise to the divorce law, and in Eastern countries like India there is separation. Now this disturbance is confirmed by the new introduction of the divorce law in India. Within the heart, the mind is acting, thinking, feeling and willing, and falling under the control of one's wife is the same as falling under the control of material intelligence. Thus one begets children by his wife and becomes entangled in so many activities under the control of mental concoctions.
One thinks, "This man is my husband," or "This woman is my wife." This is called hṛdaya-granthi, "the hard knot in the heart." This knot is very difficult to undo, even though a man and woman separate either for the principles of varṇāśrama or simply to get a divorce.SB 5.5.8, Purport:Sex serves as the natural attraction between man and woman, and when they are married, their relationship becomes more involved. Due to the entangling relationship between man and woman, there is a sense of illusion whereby one thinks, "This man is my husband," or "This woman is my wife." This is called hṛdaya-granthi, "the hard knot in the heart." This knot is very difficult to undo, even though a man and woman separate either for the principles of varṇāśrama or simply to get a divorce. In any case, the man always thinks of the woman, and the woman always thinks of the man. Thus a person becomes materially attached to family, property and children, although all of these are temporary.
In the Western countries, due to the dissatisfaction of the family members, there is actually no family life. There are many cases of divorce, and out of dissatisfaction, the children leave the protection of their parents.SB 5.13.8, Purport:The ambitious conditioned soul wants to be very happy in this material world with his family, but he is compared to a traveler in the forest who desires to climb a hill full of thorns and small stones. As stated in the previous verse, the happiness derived from society, friendship and love is like a drop of water in the scorching heat of the desert. One may want to become very great and powerful in society, but this is like attempting to climb a hill full of thorns. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura compares one's family to high mountains. Becoming happy in their association is like a hungry man's endeavoring to climb a mountain full of thorns. Almost 99.9 percent of the population is unhappy in family life, despite all the attempts being made to satisfy the family members. In the Western countries, due to the dissatisfaction of the family members, there is actually no family life. There are many cases of divorce, and out of dissatisfaction, the children leave the protection of their parents. Especially in this age of Kali, family life is being reduced. Everyone is becoming self-centered because that is the law of nature. Even if one has sufficient money to maintain a family, the situation is such that no one is happy in family life. Consequently according to the varṇāśrama institution, one has to retire from family life in middle age: pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One should voluntarily retire from family life at the age of fifty and go to Vṛndāvana or a forest.
Being disgusted with family life, one separates from the family by divorce or some other means. If one has to separate, why not separate willingly? Systematic separation is better than forced separation.SB 5.13.8, Purport:When one's mind is disturbed in so many ways, he satisfies himself by becoming angry with his poor wife and children. The wife and children are naturally dependent on the father, but the father, being unable to maintain the family properly, becomes mentally distressed and therefore chastises the family members unnecessarily. As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (12.2.9): ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being disgusted with family life, one separates from the family by divorce or some other means. If one has to separate, why not separate willingly? Systematic separation is better than forced separation. Forced separation cannot make anyone happy, but by mutual consent or by the Vedic arrangement one must separate from his family affairs at a certain age and fully depend on Kṛṣṇa. This makes one's life successful.
According to the Vedic civilization, one cannot give up the responsibilities of family life, but today everyone is giving up family life by divorce. This is due to the miserable condition experienced in the family.SB 5.14.19, Translation and Purport:Sometimes, due to bodily hunger and thirst, the conditioned soul becomes so disturbed that he loses his patience and becomes angry with his own beloved sons, daughters and wife. Thus, being unkind to them, he suffers all the more.
Śrīla Vidyāpati Ṭhākura has sung:
- tātala saikate, vāri-bindu-sama,
- suta-mita-ramaṇī-samāje
The happiness of family life is compared to a drop of water in the desert. No one can be happy in family life. According to the Vedic civilization, one cannot give up the responsibilities of family life, but today everyone is giving up family life by divorce. This is due to the miserable condition experienced in the family. Sometimes, due to misery, one becomes very hardened toward his affectionate sons, daughters and wife. This is but part of the blazing fire of the forest of material life.
Everywhere in this material world, one conditioned soul is envious of another. For the time being, people may remain friends, but eventually they become enemies again and fight over money. Sometimes they marry and then separate by divorce or other means.SB 5.14.37, Translation and Purport:Although people may be enemies, in order to fulfill their desires again and again, they sometimes get married. Unfortunately, these marriages do not last very long, and the people involved are separated again by divorce or other means.
As stated previously, every conditioned soul has the propensity to cheat, even in marriage. Everywhere in this material world, one conditioned soul is envious of another. For the time being, people may remain friends, but eventually they become enemies again and fight over money. Sometimes they marry and then separate by divorce or other means. On the whole, unity is never permanent. Due to the cheating propensity, both parties always remain envious. Even in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, separation and enmity take place due to the prominence of material propensities.
Man and woman both seek sexual enjoyment, and when they are united by the ritualistic ceremony of marriage, they are happy for some time, but finally there is dissension, and thus there are so many cases of separation and divorce.SB 7.13.26, Translation and Purport:In this human form of life, men and women unite for the sensual pleasure of sex, but by actual experience we have observed that none of them are happy. Therefore, seeing the contrary results, I have stopped taking part in materialistic activities.
As stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Man and woman both seek sexual enjoyment, and when they are united by the ritualistic ceremony of marriage, they are happy for some time, but finally there is dissension, and thus there are so many cases of separation and divorce. Although every man and woman is actually eager to enjoy life through sexual unity, the result is disunity and distress.
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PAMHO AGTSP!
Thank you so much for your kind effort to provide so many quotes!
I am just thinking that there are some items in the Hare Krsna teachings that can be "easier said than done". Of course, everyone is challenged by these truths whether they know these truths or not.
May Lord Sri Krsna Always Bless you!
Hare Krsna!
You have a problem before you in respect to living separate from your wife. If your wife keeps herself peaceful living separately from you, I think you can arrange for the time being like that, but in my opinion, this business of separation may not be developed into a case ofdivorce. So far Eric is concerned, he is developing K.C. from very childhood, and it is a great opportunity on a human being. I think his father has got a special duty to protect this child in his K.C.; The mother has also similar responsibility, so either your wife or yourself must take care of the good child. If you wife takes charge of him, then you become completely free personally, and you can live in the temple with other brahmacharies, either in N.Y. or elsewhere as you think best. If however, your wife leaves the child with you, then you can take care of him; that will be nice. But I think it is very difficult, because he is not sufficiently grown up. Anyway, both your wife and yourself cannot think of marrying again; that is not my advice. Even if your wife decides to marry again, for your part you should forget it; and if by the Grace of Krishna you can live peacefully without any wife, completely devoted to K.C., that will be the best part of your life. You can love and put all your affection to the child, and try to make him fully K.C.
I am in due receipt of your short note regarding your marriage. So far I know that you are married with Subala das before me and as such you forget all your previous life. You are now liberated from all other obligations because you surrendered yourself unto Krishna. Such surrender has no more obligations to anyone. So far Subala is concerned he is also a surrendered soul and thus your combination is quiet apt for the service of the Lord. You have, by the Grace of Krishna, got a very nice place to develop a full fledged temple and your husband is becoming competent to conduct the service nicely. I have already given him instruction how to do things and that is published in the New Mexican paper. Please do follow the instructions both husband and wife, and help your God brothers and sisters to follow the instructions faithfully. Krishna is always with you provided you are sincere in His service and faithful to your Spiritual Master, that is the secret success. It is plain and simple, please try to be faithful and sincere. You are very intelligent and devotee of the Lord. Please know it that I do not approve anyone's separation who are married by me. If they disagree, they may live separately, but there cannot be divorce. When one is separate, one may fully devote in Krishna, but no more marriage. If this is not followed, I will not take part in anyone's marriage in the future. I hope you will understand me right and do the needful.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Therefore ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. A father dies insolvent, debtor; he is enemy because the son has to pay according to Manu-saṁhitā law. Because he inherits father's money, why he shall not pay if the father is debtor?
Jayapatākā: He also inherits the debt.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is India's law. You cannot simply inherit father's property and no debt. You inherit father's debt also. So a father dies debted, indebtor—he is supposed to be enemy because the son has to pay. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi.(?)And mother, if she marries for the second time in spite of presence of children, she is enemy. And in Western countries it is very common affair.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Divorce and remarry.
Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, though, without God consciousness, isn't it that people see that whether they are moral or not moral, they still suffer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This material world is meant for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is a place for suffering. And that is also temporary. You cannot make adjustment: "Never mind, it is suffering; I shall remain here." No, that also will not be allowed. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate," but so many divorces are there.
Prabhupāda: That is suffering.
Rāmeśvara: If a man can have an affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's on the front page of all the magazines.
Hari-śauri: "Bachelor daddy."
Prabhupāda: Therefore they want to become gopīs. That is the tendency, sahajiyā.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like transcendental hippie-life.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No responsibility.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They all fell asleep. I was chanting. You were sitting, you didn't even go to sleep that night (laughs). Even though it was late at night, it was about eleven, twelve, one o'clock at night, you didn't want to stay at that bhogī yogi house. I remember that. And he drove very, very fast back to Portland. That was a very nice engagement.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That was Śyāmasundara's father's car. So he's a good driver, (laughter) but very dangerous driver. I do not know, Śyāmasundara, his father is a rich man, lawyer, got good estate and he's the only son. He did not like to stay with father.
Hari-śauri: No one in the West likes to stay with their parents.
Prabhupāda: Two sisters, very beautiful girls. They're unhappy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're unhappy?
Prabhupāda: Yes. His two sisters.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard he was preaching to them. At least one of them that came to the temple that time. She came to that program.
Prabhupāda: She first of all came in London.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She was piano player.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they're artists. They're artists. They're not happy. Divorced. His mother is very gentle, I have seen. Father is also respectable man.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Family life in the West is disastrous.
Prabhupāda: The father wants to get them back at home, but they don't.... The father is also taking pills for sleeping. (laughs) Father is also not happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wine and sex. They see from childhood. One boy, Rancor, so his father and mother divorced and he was young child. He was the first child of his mother. And the mother, he said, would daily bring a new friend. So he could understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A new woman.
Prabhupāda: Not new woman, his mother, he was under the care of mother.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, mother had new husbands, new boyfriends.
Prabhupāda: Daily night. And he was shocked. One of my Gauḍīya Maṭha Godbrothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gauḍīya Maṭha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Prabhupāda: Abhirucir, yes. Now formerly marriage was a religious ceremony. Marriage was, this boy and this girl should be married, it is a religious function where the father and mother will see their horoscope and see if they are compatible, they will agree, they will live peacefully, so many things are there. Still, in India such things are calculated by the parents of the boy and the girl. But in this Kali-yuga, dāmpatye abhirucir. Abhirucir means the boy and the girl, if he likes, if he says, that's all. No other calculation. And the, after three days after marriage, there is divorce. (laughter) Because abhirucir, "I like, I don't like," that's all. Now I like, and after three days I don't like, finished, business. In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper. So this, formerly the father, mother used to see that this boy and this girl are going to be married. So by horoscope, by other circumstances, by family, cultural, by education, so many things, whether they will live peacefully. That was the understanding. Husband-wife means, a man requires a woman, a woman requires a man. They should be combined in such a way that they can live peacefully. If there is no disturbance of the mind, then they can make further progress in spiritual life. Therefore marriage is also necessary, and that must be properly done. This was the... Now there is no such consideration.
Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce. When this divorce system was introduced?
Rūpānuga: Comparatively recent. Because for many years the Catholic Church forbade it. When did it begin?
Pradyumna: Henry the Eighth, the King of England.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's the rascal.
Pradyumna: He had many wives, he wanted to divorce his wife and he could not under Catholic Church, so he started his own church, Church of England.
Prabhupāda: Because many wives were not allowed?
Hari-śauri: No, they had a system, one wife, but he got fed up with them. He chopped off the heads of two of them and then... It was considered a bit outrageous. So then he wanted to divorce and have another wife after the third or fourth one.
Prabhupāda: So he used to cut them, the head?
Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is called dāya, dāya-bhāk, legally he is bound. He may not get his son married, but the daughter must be married. This is father's duty.
Rūpānuga: It is sinful, actually considered sinful, if he doesn't do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because without father the daughter cannot be properly married. Daughter or son, everyone, if the father, mother, by their supervision, the boys and girls get married, that is very good. They see how they will be happy. And without father, mother, simply by lusty desires, that selection may be wrong and that becomes actually happened. Therefore there is divorce.
Rūpānuga: In this country the father and the mother, they tell the daughter that "You go out and bring a husband home. You go out and find a young boy and bring him home." And they make them go out in the street to find a husband.
Prabhupāda: I know that. Sometimes they are advised to do business. I know that. When, in our society, in the beginning, I started marriage, the father, mother, did not like it. Nowadays it has become custom, in India also, let the girl have many friends, but don't marry unless you find out a suitable man. Society degrades.
Prabhupāda: In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?
Hari-śauri: I wasn't there that time.
Harikeśa: I remember.
Prabhupāda: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition?
Gargamuni: Yes, oh, yes. Those are heavy-duty machines. They were old, but they were good.
Prabhupāda: They were working nice. And the printer was that boy?
Gargamuni: Ranchor.
Prabhupāda: Ranchor. Spoiling so much paper.
Gargamuni: Yes, so much.
Prabhupāda: He brought $500 from his grandfather.
Gargamuni: Yes, he donated.
Prabhupāda: His father and mother divorced. So he used to visit sometimes his grandfather, father's father. So naturally grandfather, when he used to visit, he gave him some money.
Hari-śauri: And he'd give it to you. Then he gave it to you.
Prabhupāda: Once he gave me. Anyway, Kṛṣṇa is giving us encouragement. Religious, philosophical book, as soon as they hear of it they immediately say, "No, no, we..." That is the natural tendency.
Prabhupāda: They come back again. But here (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, one who comes, he'll be lost. (laughs)
Haṁsadūta: Brainwashed.
Prabhupāda: There is no hope of their coming. And Gargamuni's father tried so much to get him back. Then he became hopeless.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: He was pet child of his father and mother and practically they closed their factory and everything. They become, they divorced and (indistinct).
Haṁsadūta: Collapse.
Prabhupāda: Collapse. I sent Gargamuni, go and...
Haṁsadūta: I remember he went home for sometime.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: To try get into that business.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: He was detected though because he wouldn't eat meat. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: No. He tried his best, his father. Then his father (accepted), "This child is lost."
Prabhupāda: There is a verse in the Purāṇas,
In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.
Prabhupāda: Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.
Amogha: Just like that girl who came two days ago, that Indian girl. Her parents were separated. Now she is living thousands of miles away with some boy.
Prabhupāda: They are this part of Indian, the Fiji Indians. They have learned the art of divorce.
Amogha: They are very Western, westernized.
Prabhupāda: ...defect of the Western country is practically there is no social structure. The father, mother, they divorce, and the children become careless. Most cases this is the defect.
Director: Happens, yes.
Prabhupāda: I have seen many of my students, their family, whole family disrupt on account of father and mother, even in old age, divorce. I have seen Brahmānanda's mother. His father was very... still living. Very good businessman, very nice family, good income. All of a sudden the father and mother disagreed, they divorce. The sons were somewhere; the daughters were somewhere.
Director: That's cases we deal with. Adoption, and...
Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.
Director: And now divorce is getting easier too, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court." This is going on. So the first defect is there is divorce law. Another defect is that there is no method how to train a man to become first class. That is there in the Vedic civilization. Now of course in India that is also now abolished by degradation.
Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.
Director: What can you do if society wants it? Society wants it that way.
Prabhupāda: Society... that's like your child wants to go to hell. But it is not the duty of the father to allow him to go to hell. Society want... Because the society does not know, the government does not know how to uplift the position of the human being. They do not know it.
Siddha-svarūpa: Actually the Chinese are attempting artificially to keep the people...
Prabhupāda: But they do not know that where is the defect. Defect is that everyone has got some attraction. Somebody has attraction for his personal self. Somebody has got attraction for wife, children, family, then attraction for society. In this way they talk of many things. They have come to attraction of humanity. They are all nonsense. The attraction is for sense gratification under different names only. My attraction for family is not for their benefit. By my sense gratification the family members help me, therefore I am attracted. The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce. The son goes out. The daughter goes out. So everyone is prone to some attraction. So if you keep them in the material attraction, then you can change the name; the disease will continue. That is the difficulty. You can change the name from this ism to that ism but every ism is material.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Why do you say here?
Indian guest: In India... I come from a village, and they don't talk... Well, fathers, parents, elder brother, and priest... And it is very different.
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean the thought of woman is absent. They may be more civilized. They don't talk loosely. But that does not mean he is free from the woman's beauty.
Indian guest: Yeah, they have it, but it is not that rampant. It is kind of suppressed a little bit.
Prabhupāda: At least, they know. They are taught by the culture, "This is not good." But here they do not know that, that the thinking of woman is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think if you don't think of a woman, then that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're abnormal.
Indian guest: That's right. They think you are abnormal. That's right. Over there something like divorce and the crisis, one woman marrying ten husband or going around..., those kind of... I don't anybody in India who has been divorced. I don't know personally. So it's different level.
Prabhupāda: No, amongst the mass of people in India, still there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not vanished. Because by culture, by taking birth in India that is inherent. India is so great.
Indian guest: The one problem over there: it's very hard to find a pure devotee or real...
Prabhupāda: Because their leaders have gone dead. The leaders are Jawaharlal Nehru and company.
Indian guest: They have destroyed. The Nehru family has destroyed India. He was atheist.
Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, even Gandhi.
Indian guest: Gandhi believed in God, but Nehru didn't believe in God.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. Everyone believes in God. That is another thing, but one must know who is God. That is advancement. Here also, the people say, "God, God is great." But as soon God comes, "Here I have come," they don't believe it.
Woman reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupāda: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.
Woman reporter: What advice do you have to women who do not want to be subordinate to men?
Prabhupāda: It is not my advice, but it is the advice of the Vedic knowledge that woman should be chaste and faithful to man.
Woman reporter: What should we do in the United States? We're trying to make women equal with men.
Prabhupāda: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man's functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal? As I told you that the husband and wife—the wife has to become pregnant, not the husband. How you can change this, both the husband and wife will be pregnant? Is it possible? Is it possible?
Woman reporter: No, it is not.
Prabhupāda: Then by nature one has to function differently from the other.
Woman reporter: But why does this mean...?
Prabhupāda: So how you can change?
Woman reporter: Why does this mean that women have to be subordinate?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman reporter: Just because they bear children and men can't?
Prabhupāda: Well, by nature... No, as soon as you get children, you require support from the husband. Otherwise you are in difficulty.
Jayatīrtha: Yeah. "The Swami now lives in Los Angeles, and he trains his followers there. Their income is from sales of his books, magazines and incense. He says he has about ten thousand followers. 'We do not have so many,' he said..."
Prabhupāda: The inner meaning is there: "I shall be arrested."
Brahmānanda: Yes. (laughs) That shows what is the position.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: "He said he has about ten thousand followers." Quote: " 'We do not have so many,' he said, 'it is hard to find a first-class man.' " And then she says...
Prabhupāda: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple.
Jayatīrtha: Then she says, "It's a pity half the population are women."
Prabhupāda: I didn't say half the population...
Brahmānanda: That's her comment.
Jayatīrtha: That's what she said. In other words...
Brahmānanda: Her comment is that if you hadn't...
Jayatīrtha: ...that half of the people are disqualified already because they're women. It's not so bad.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I'll personally... Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn't require education. (break) Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot... No, no, hand... What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? (break) Within two weeks, two divorces.
Prabhupāda: So women should be trained up to be very faithful and chaste. Then the life will be very happy. That is the only education for woman. And man should be educated how to become first-class man, a brāhmaṇa. Then the whole atmosphere will be very happy. The man, first-class man, brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ titikṣa, and woman, very faithful to such husband and chaste. Then the home is happy. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says another place, dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ. "If there is no fight and disagreement between husband and wife, in that home the goddess of fortune automatically comes." They haven't got to search out where is goddess of fortune. She will come automatically. So that is now lacking. In most cases the husband and wife does not agree. And the other day I was reading in a paper that one woman in two weeks or three weeks...?
Jayatīrtha: In two weeks.
Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.
Brahmānanda: President Ford, he was almost killed.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What about?
Brahmānanda: Some woman... He was mingling in the crowd for the election, and some woman came up to him. She was two feet away from him, and she took out of her purse a loaded pistol, and she was to go like this, and then she was...
Prabhupāda: Captured.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Nayanābhirāma: He was going to shake her hand.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Brahmānanda: So the president said, "Oh, this is simply a distraction." He was trying to say it wasn't important.
Prabhupāda: What was the cause?
Brahmānanda: She is a member of a group, a fanatical group in California. I don't know what... The Manson group? Charles Manson? Who is that group? This man killed about six people.
Prabhupāda: Prominent.
Brahmānanda: And I think this man has many wives. He has about two dozen wives. These are all his wives. He's in jail now. Life sentence. (break)
Prabhupāda: There is no problem.
Brahmānanda: Yes. He was saying, "Oh, it's just a distraction." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the President's life is not safe, and there is no problem. What to speak of others.
Dhanañjaya: An intelligent man will go completely insane because he can't solve the problems...
Prabhupāda: The solution is there.
Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.
Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)
Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is going on.
Prabhupāda: I was married... My wife was eleven years. So in this age there is no question of love. It is not that the husband and wife lives together, no. Unless the girl is grown up, she is not going to the husband. She remains with the father and mother. Sometimes they meet, and the wife is taught, giving some sweetmeat to the husband-official. Official. The parents of the girl: "Just go up to your husband and offer this." So she comes as obedient servant. But gradually they get the connection. In this way the love develops, and when they are fifteen, sixteen years old, they are allowed to live together. Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it. They may fight. The husband and wife fighting, that is not unusual. Therefore Canakya Paṇḍita says, "Fight between the husband, wife, never take it seriously." Daṁpatye kalahe caiva baṁbhāraṁbhe laghu-kriya: "They'll make all arambha, but it is not very important. Don't take." Next moment they will again live peacefully. So according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong. Even Gandhi's life, he fought with his wife and pushed her out of the house: "Get out, I don't want you." And Kasturabhai, she began to cry on the street, "Where shall I go? You have driven me away." Then Gandhi said, "Come on." Finished. (laughter) He has written in his life.
Harikeśa: I'm curious about the destination of a neophyte devotee. If a neophyte devotee is with determination endeavoring for purification but he were to meet with death as he is still influenced by the lower modes, although he is seriously trying, then does he take another birth or does he go to Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: I have heard that the man could have first landed on moon and then...
Prabhupāda: Nobody landed. This is all bogus.
Dr. Patel: No, no, whatever he did... Let us... It is all bogus, but that man is divorced by his wife because he has lost his sex. Somebody told me.
Prabhupāda: There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.
Dr. Patel: You must tell any other good messages, how actually a marriage is, can be for production of good progeny...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Putrārthe kriyate bharyā putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This, the first, piṇḍa-dāna for maintaining family. But nowadays nobody wants offspring. They want to kill to avoid botheration.
Dr. Patel: First they prevent, and if by accident it happens, then they kill it. And the medical profession help them.
Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: I am against it, no doubt. Once upon a time I used to be the doctor of all these so-called cinema actors and actresses, and you know their profession. And they are always falling prey of these sort of things, and they would come to me for relief, and I would refuse. So today I have none of them as my patient.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot relieve them.
Dr. Patel: No, I have taken a vow not to do wrong things. That is why I am here in your company. Otherwise I would be somewhere in... That is very common in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: So near. You can come. (break) It is published, that the wood... Now it is no green leaves. Why? What is missing? If they are so expert, inject something and it will have green leaves like that. (break) ...I mean to say, trucks they are rejected in your country. We do not see such buses. What is this house?
Harikeśa: It's a college. It's a girls' college.
Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How to get equal rights.
Prabhupāda: No, equal rights, that's all right. This is the education. The uneducated girls do not do this.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That's all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.
Yogeśvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.
Prabhupāda: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.
Yogeśvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other."
Prabhupāda: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacārī, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.
Yogeśvara: But that's not possible for the mass of people.
Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement.
Prabhupāda: Just like some of our students, immediately married and again, "Give me sannyāsa." What is this? Irresponsible, that's all. Irresponsibility. So these things are not required at all. These things are not required. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. "Now let me take sannyāsa." That's all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that's a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation... High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn't matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.
Yogeśvara: So these Italian women are complaining now that their husbands are abusing them, so why can they not get divorced?
Prabhupāda: Why do you marry?
Yogeśvara: Obviously, they wanted sex in the beginning, but they didn't know it was going to be so much trouble.
Prabhupāda: That is our point. Then why do you marry? Just begin Kṛṣṇa conscious, and you will find, without sex, you will be happy.
Yogeśvara: But what do we advise such women?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, "If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?" There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. If one is actually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will deride, "Huh! Nonsense! What is this?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?
Yogeśvara: No, very nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.
Prabhupāda: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacārī. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacārī, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitāi: No need.
Prabhupāda: No need. Then when the brahmacārī is allowed to become gṛhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "To become brāhmaṇa means just have a thread only."
Devotee: And he told me that "Swamiji will not be successful in his movement because he will not allow free love." I just saw him in San Francisco before I went to India two and a half years ago. We were trying to get him to come back to the temple.
Prabhupāda: No, he cannot give up these bad habits.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You said in Geneva that no one has died from giving up cigarettes or illicit sex. So it is not so hard to do.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not hard. Now the Christian church is giving liberty, man to man marriage. Most unnatural.
Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.
Bhagavān: It's a matter of money.
Prabhupāda: And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)
Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.
Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
Yogeśvara: This is all from the Twelfth Canto?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Foretold, five thousand years ago. Here said, tapasvino grāma-vāsā nyāsino 'tyartha-lolupāḥ: "And the sannyāsīs, they'll be too much greedy about money."
Yogeśvara: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Patiṁ tyakṣyanti nirdravyaṁ bhṛtyā apy akhilottamam. "The natural tendency will be to give up, divorce, husband, especially when he has no sufficient money." The wife will divorce. Or the husband has no sex power. The wife... The divorce case takes place in two: when the sex indulgence is not very good, and when the husband has no money.
Prabhupāda: So this sex life increases the bodily concept of life. Therefore the whole process is to reduce it to nil.
Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education. (pause)
Bob: That, for today, is a radical concept, for nowadays.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: Presently, in America that's a radical concept.
Prabhupāda: Well, in America there are so many things which requires thorough reformation. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. When I went to your country, so I saw these boys and girls, they're living like friends. I said that "You cannot live as friends; you must get yourself married."
Bob: Many people see that even marriage is not sacred. So they find no desire to... Because people get married, and if things are not proper they get divorced so very easy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that also.
Bob: ...that some people feel to get married is not meaningful.
Prabhupāda: No, the idea is that marriage is not sacred. They think marriage is a legalized prostitution. They think like that, but marriage is not that. Even that Christian paper, what is that, "Watch...?"
Śyāmasundara: Christian..."Watchtower?"
Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."
Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Five thousand years this prediction is there: "In this Kali-yuga people will keep long hair, and..., because that will be appreciated, that a man keeping long hair is very beautiful." So that is happening. Just see. Five thousand years ago, that was written, and that is happening. There are so many things. That is called śāstra. It is truth for all the days—past, present, future. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. These things are stated. "Husband and wife will keep together so long their sex power is strong. Otherwise they will divorce." This is written. Svīkāram eva hi udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." According to Vedic system, marriage is a long program. The father of the girl and the boy first of all select. Then their horoscope should be consulted, how they will mix together, and then the family, then personal qualification, so many things... Then dowry... After all this consideration, when everything is satisfactory, then the father and mother of both sides will agree, and they will be married. That is marriage. Now, at the present moment in Kali-yuga, it is said, svīkāram eva hy udvahe. Boys and girls will loiter in the street and two of them, as they agree, "Yes, we will live together." That's all. Bas. This is stated. And that is happening. So this is called śāstra. Five thousand years ago, what was predicted, that is now happening. Therefore we give so much stress on the śāstra that it is perfect. There is no mistake. If you write one book, I write one book, because we are imperfect, it is all imperfect.
John Nordheimer: What is the role of women in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between men and women.
John Nordheimer: I keep hearing about certain propensities women have that would separate them from propensities men have.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is still man's duty to become the husband and woman's duty to become the wife; so these propensities are there. But all this can be adjusted. I have many students and am getting them married, and they are living peacefully and advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that everyone is brahmacārī. We have many gṛhasthas and children. In this way the propensities of the women and those of the man are adjusted. A man wants a woman, and a woman wants a man, so we say, "All right, take it. Live peacefully, but don't change partners." We don't allow divorce; once they're married there is no separation. Nor do we allow boys and girls to live together as friends. If a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man, they should become united by marriage, live peacefully and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. In this way all facilities are there in this movement. Our program is to make people become godly, and everyone should help us. Every sane man should help this movement for the good of society.
Room Conversation -- September 24, 1969, London:
Prabhupāda: Mahātmās, those who are great souls, they are not under the spell of this material energy. They are not attracted by these activities of piling and digging and leaving. They are interested with Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva. That is mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13). Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ. Bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. Their only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection of life. If one is engaged in the business of satisfying Kṛṣṇa instead of satisfying himself... Most people, they are engaged in satisfying themselves. Everyone in this material world. The so-called politicians, they promise that "I shall give you so many things." But actually, he is trying to occupy the post for his satisfaction. These are all false promises. Why politicians? Even in our family life we maintain wife, children. Why? For my satisfaction. As soon as there is discrepancy in my satisfaction I divorce my wife. Or the wife sees that "This husband is useless." She also divorces. So everywhere, the whole material world is going on on the basis of sense satisfaction. So the sense satisfaction platform is called kāma, lust. And one has to elevate oneself from this sense satisfaction platform to the platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, service to Kṛṣṇa. (Aside:) Does he mind you? (?) So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach people how to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa.
Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:
Prof. Kotovsky: But... I am sorry to interrupt you, but originally, to my knowledge, original Indian society, when, in the second half of Indian society, when in Calcutta by order of British administration was codified, so-called, you know, remember, "Jantu Law," they called, a big digest of Hindu law, there was a lot of change...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...called in.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they manufactured another...
Prof. Kotovsky: And this, the actual Hindu law which was used by Hindus, they're quite different from original Manu-smṛti.
Prabhupāda: No, they have now made changes. Just like our late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. He made some Hindu code. He introduced in that Hindu code the right of divorcing husband and wife. But these were not in Manu-saṁhitā. And, of course, they are changing. If you like, you can change. But the social order also not exactly the same as it was before.
Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: And so many things. So they're changing. But before this modern age the whole Hindu society was being governed by Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti, yeah.
Prabhupāda: Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again. So He had all these opulences without any difficulty, and His family life—mother, wife... Caṇākya Paṇḍita says,
Caṇākya Paṇḍita is giving too much stress on mother and wife in family life. So he says if one's mother is dead and if his wife is not very..., apriya-vādinī, and does not behave very well, ill-behaving, so Caṇākya Paṇḍita advises him that aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: such person should immediately go to the forest. Because in the Vedic understanding there is no divorce. If the wife is not very pleasing, there is no question of divorcing. Caṇākya Paṇḍita does not advise it, the advise that he should divorce such wife, but he says, aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: he should give up family life and go to the forest.Divorce was completely unknown, even up to, say, five years ago. Now this Nehru government has enacted Divorce Act in Hindu law, but actually, Hindu law-maker, they have no such thing as divorce.
Prabhupāda: Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorceafter week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy. When a man comes at home, he sees that everything is nicely decorated, my wife is well-dressed and foodstuff is nicely prepared, he becomes encouraged. He can work more nicely. Therefore woman is the energy. The woman gives the energy and he can work. Wherefrom this idea came? The idea came because it is originally here, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is coming from the Supreme; otherwise where do you get this idea? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without being in the origin? Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10), Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the root of everything." So if this energy, male and female combination, is a necessity, so wherefrom this necessity came into existence unless it is there in the origin? Therefore it is to be understood that the Absolute has energy.
Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.
Journalist: Is there much divorce in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The modern, so-called advanced boys and girls, they are now after divorce. But before that, even there was misunderstanding between husband and wife, quarrel, there was no question of divorce. Take my life practical. I was a householder. Now I have given up. So practically I did not agree with my wife, but there was no dream of divorcing. You see? Neither she dreamt, neither I dreamt. This was unknown. Now they are being introduced.
Even in the dealings of Lord Kṛṣṇa with His different queens, it has been seen that although the queens were the daughters of great kings, they placed themselves before Lord Kṛṣṇa as His maidservants. However great a woman may be, she must place herself before her husband in this way; that is to say, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in all circumstances. Then her life will be successful. When the wife becomes as irritable as the husband, their life at home is sure to be disturbed or ultimately completely broken. In the modern day, the wife is never submissive, and therefore home life is broken even by slight incidents. Either the wife or the husband may take advantage of the divorce laws. According to the Vedic law, however, there is no such thing as divorce laws, and a woman must be trained to be submissive to the will of her husband. Westerners contend that this is a slave mentality for the wife, but factually it is not; it is the tactic by which a woman can conquer the heart of her husband, however irritable or cruel he may be.
It is quite clear that according to Vedic culture a woman who accepts a paramour or second husband in the presence of the husband she has married is certainly responsible for the degradation of her father's family and the family of her husband. The rules of Vedic culture in this regard are strictly observed in the respectable families of brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas even today; only the śūdras are degraded in this matter. For a woman of the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya class to accept another husband in the presence of the husband she has married, or to file for divorce or accept a boyfriend or paramour, is unacceptable in the Vedic culture. Therefore King Śaryāti, who did not know the real facts of Cyavana Muni's transformation, was surprised to see the behavior of his daughter.
Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Because such a marriage is not sanctioned by regular scriptures, King Yayāti did not like it, but because it was arranged by providence and because he was attracted by Devayānī's beauty, he accepted her request.
According to the Vedic system, the parents would consider the horoscopes of the boy and girl who were to be married. If according to astrological calculations the boy and girl were compatible in every respect, the match was called yoṭaka and the marriage would be accepted. Even fifty years ago, this system was current in Hindu society. Regardless of the affluence of the boy or the personal beauty of the girl, without this astrological compatibility the marriage would not take place. A person is born in one of three categories, known as deva-gaṇa, manuṣya-gaṇa and rakṣasa-gaṇa. In different parts of the universe there are demigods and demons, and in human society also some people resemble demigods whereas others resemble demons. If according to astrological calculations there was conflict between a godly and a demoniac nature, the marriage would not take place. Similarly, there were calculations of pratiloma and anuloma. The central idea is that if the boy and girl were on an equal level the marriage would be happy, whereas inequality would lead to unhappiness. Because care is no longer taken in marriage, we now find many divorces. Indeed, divorce has now become a common affair, although formerly one's marriage would continue lifelong, and the affection between husband and wife was so great that the wife would voluntarily die when her husband died or would remain a faithful widow throughout her entire life. Now, of course, this is no longer possible, for human society has fallen to the level of animal society. Marriage now takes place simply by agreement. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ (SB 12.2.3). The word abhiruci means "agreement." If the boy and girl simply agree to marry, the marriage takes place. But when the Vedic system is not rigidly observed, marriage frequently ends in divorce.
In her reception of Mahārāja Duṣmanta, Śakuntalā clearly said, "Your Majesty may stay here, and you may accept whatever reception I can offer." Thus she indicated that she wanted Mahārāja Duṣmanta as her husband. As far as Mahārāja Duṣmanta was concerned, he desired Śakuntalā as his wife from the very beginning, as soon as he saw her, so the agreement to unite as husband and wife was natural. To induce Śakuntalā to accept the marriage, Mahārāja Duṣmanta reminded her that as the daughter of a king she could select her husband in an open assembly. In the history of Āryan civilization there have been many instances in which famous princesses have selected their husbands in open competitions. For example, it was in such a competition that Sītādevī accepted Lord Rāmacandra as her husband and that Draupadī accepted Arjuna, and there are many other instances. So marriage by agreement or by selecting one's own husband in an open competition is allowed. There are eight kinds of marriage, of which marriage by agreement is called gāndharva marriage. Generally the parents select the husband or wife for their daughter or son, but gāndharva marriage takes place by personal selection. Still, although marriage by personal selection or by agreement took place in the past, we find no such thing as divorce by disagreement. Of course, divorce by disagreement took place among low-class men, but marriage by agreement was found even in the very highest classes, especially in the royal kṣatriya families. Mahārāja Duṣmanta's acceptance of Śakuntalā as his wife was sanctioned by Vedic culture. How the marriage took place is described in the next verse.
Because a son delivers his father from punishment in the hell called put, the son is called putra. According to this principle, when there is a disagreement between the father and mother, it is the father, not the mother, who is delivered by the son. But if the wife is faithful and firmly adherent to her husband, when the father is delivered the mother is also delivered. Consequently, there is no such thing as divorce in the Vedic literature. A wife is always trained to be chaste and faithful to her husband, for this helps her achieve deliverance from any abominable material condition. This verse clearly says, putro nayati naradeva yama-kṣayāt: "The son saves his father from the custody of Yamarāja." It never says, putro nayati mātaram: "The son saves his mother." The seed-giving father is delivered, not the storekeeper mother. Consequently, husband and wife should not separate under any condition, for if they have a child whom they raise to be a Vaiṣṇava, he can save both the father and mother from the custody of Yamarāja and punishment in hellish life.