Hare Krishna ,
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada ,
What is Devi - Bhagwatam ?
I have heard that it is a Upurana , but it contains 18000 verses .
It itself declares it as Mahapuran . But there is a controversy over its authentication .
Some says it was written by Ved Vyas . Some says it was written in Bengali ,
It is a major text Of Shaktas , and Glorifies Durga .
But there are many questions regarding Durga's daughter being Laxmi and Saraswati .
Is it a Purana or It have been designated Bhagwatam by people .
Like we have Bhagwat Puran , So it is called Srimad Bhagwatam .
How can devi-puran be Devi Bhagwatam and Durga be the mother of Laxmi and Saraswati .
Hari Bol !!
Replies
Prabhu jee,
Hare Krsna! You are exalted devotee, still you take offense on what VedaVyasa wrote!
If you read above with :"patram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati/ tad aham bhakty-upahritam ashnami prayatatmanah", won't make your ego worse.
Your servant,
Sharanagat
Hare Krishna Sharangat Prabhuji. Dandavat pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
yes can turn off a NON-VAISHNAVA. BUT A PURE VAISHNAVA who is in love with Krishna and Prabhupada will be charged up after reading the POST. I can't understand what is the problem to accept the simple truth if some one really want to serve Krishna. Mind has two function accept and reject. Why not accept Krishna and reject others??
Blind faith without evidence of shastra is fanatism.
your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hare Krsna Prabhu jee.
My basis is that as you are quoting smriti, others can quote smriti too. And their logic and rational is equally right per them and your faith is,perhaps, blind per them.
Generally speaking Shruti is only what is Samhita, with whatever little knowledge has been imparted to this ignorant one by Gurus. Other three you mention, depend on path you follow, all paths lead to same ONE.
I am not qualified enough to label you Prabhu jee, you are surely exalted one. Thanks for being kind to guide my soul to 'vaishnava' tolerance. I humbly walk away leaving your words of true Vaishnava for you. You can pick it, I do not need.
Please have mercy on this fallen soul and in true Vaishanava spirit, which I am sure you are one, excuse me from labelling and attacks.
Hari Bol,
Sharanagat
Hare Krishna Sharangat Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
/*My basis is that as you are quoting smriti, others can quote smriti too. And their logic and rational is equally right per them and your faith is,perhaps, wrong per them.*/
Where did you find I am quoting smriti. Please take a look again at my previous post . The quote is Given by Srila Prabhupada. Again I am posting for you
PURPORT GIVEN BY SRILA PRABHUPADA AND IT IS NOT MINE. PLEASE GO THROUGH BG 10.8 OF BHAGAVAD GITA AS IT IS
All Vedic literature agrees that Kṛṣṇa is the source of Brahmā, Śiva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmāṇaḿ vidadhāti pūrvaḿ yo vai vedāḿś ca gāpayati sma kṛṣṇaḥ: "It was Kṛṣṇa who in the beginning instructed Brahmā in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past."
It is said in the same Vedas, brahmaṇyo devakī-putraḥ: "The son of Devakī, Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality." (Nārāyaṇa Upaniṣad 4)
HERE IS NO SPACE OF DOUBT WHERE PRABUPADA HIMSELF CONFIRMING NARAYANA AND OTHER UPANISADS ARE PART OF VEDAS.
I just can't understand why you are doubting Prabhupada and trying to repeating your own view. I DON'T KNOW WHICH GURU AND SHASTRA YOU FOLLOW BUT YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING SRILA PRABUPADA
/*Generally speaking Shruti is only what is Samhita, with whatever little knowledge has been imparted to me by Gurus. Other three you mention, depend on path you follow, all paths lead to same ONE.*/
Prove that Shruti is only Samhita , I can challange in this matter , No Acharayas ever said that Shruti is only Samhita. All school of thought constitue by PRASTHANA TRAYA-UPANISADS,VEDANTA-SUTRA,BHAGAVAD GITA
/*Other three you mention, depend on path you follow, all paths lead to same ONE.*/
Not all paths leads to One . There are several types of Liberation . It is not "JATA MAT TATA PATH". There is only one highest path that is BHAKTI, others are lower in regard to Bhakti.
BG 6.47: And of all yogīs, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me — he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion.
/*
I am not qualified enough to label you Prabhu jee, you are surely exalted one.
Thanks for being kind to guide my soul to intolerance. I humbly walk away leaving your words of true Vaishnava for you.*/
I am exalted or not that doesn't matter and I M NOT FOR SURE BUT What I have posted is inline with our Vaishnava Guru parampara that I can assure and there is no adulteration.
/*Please have mercy on this fallen soul and in true Vaishanava spirit, which I am sure you are one, excuse me from labelling and attacks.*/
Rather I need mercy to serve Srila Prabhupada more and more . Without basis in philosophy putting argument is dangerous.
your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hare Krishna Dwaipayan Prabhuji! Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thanks for clarifying. You are an excelled soul. I will read Devi Bhagwatam with this in mind once to clarify my doubts.
Hari Bol!
Your's dasanudas,
Sharanagat
Hare Krishna Sharangat Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
/*Isn't it true that Samhita is considered Shruti and others are Smriti and have a definite start?*/
No it is not , Samhitas are hymns only that is directed towards specific deities , nothing is explained in samhitas elaborately to understand. Shruti is divided into three section 1.Karma-Kanda. 2. Gyana Kanda 3. Upasana Kanda .Samhitas and Brahmanas form the Karma-Kanda section of Vedas and Aranyakas and Upanisads form the Gyana and Upasana kanda of vedas.
EXCEPT upanisads there is no explanation of transendental message in anywhere of vedas. All schools of thought including mayavada of Adi Shanakara to Visithaadvaita of Ramanuja to Dwaita of Madhava accepted these three trinity called PRASTHANA TRAYA -UPANISADS,VEDANTA-SUTRA AND BHAGAVAD GITA to establish their philosophy. Hindu world is driven by these great Acharayas, Who can know Veda well than them. Who are we to deny their authority ???
/*So if you interpret the four as part of Ved, then you should complete by having Vedang and Upveda also included.*/
who am I to interpret this things ? It is given by our great Acharyas like Adi Shankara , Ramanuja , Madhva. I just put forward to let people know who questions the authority and dwell in concocted view.
In order to study the Vedas in details, six shastras are helpful. These shastras are known as the Vedangas. The six Vedangas are: Shiksha, Kalp, Vyakaran, Nirukta, Jyotish and Chhanda. They are not itself part of Vedas but use as supplementary to help student of Vedas Like you need to know grammer, noun and tense to read and understand the meaning of english passage.
/*I find your post extremely restrictive to accept. I accept what Ved Vyasa said as I do not see anywhere Srila Prabhupada say not to read Devi Bhagwatam either.*/
Truth may seems sometime extreme but can't help.
The below is one of the ten offenses against chanting the holy name.
2) To consider the names of the demigods like Lord Siva or Lord Brahma to be equal to, or independent of, the name Lord Visnu.
NOW DEVI BHAGATAM declares that NARAYANA CAME FROM DEVI , DEVI IS SUPREME BRAHMAN NARAYANA IS SUBORDINATE TO DEVI NOT ONLY STOPS HERE IT FURTHER SAYS LAXMI IS DAUGHTER OF DURGA.
NOW just compare the one offences I mentioned above and the above statement from Devi-Bhagvatam ........................AND THINK.HOW A PURE VAISNAVA CAN TOLERATE THIS ? FOLLOWING GURU MEANS FOLLOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS, IF WE CONTRADICT WITH THIS THEN WE ARE DOING APARADHA IN THEIR FEET.
There is no offence to follow devi and read Devi purana but HE SHOULD NOT DECLARE HIMSELF AS A VAISHNAVA.
your aspiring servant
Hari BOL
Hare Krishna Prabhujis and Matajis. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
For those who deny the Lordship of Krishna and fail to understand Narayana/Krishna/Vishnu are the same personality, who doubt the shastras for them the below quote given by His Divine Grace A . C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in purport of BG 10.8
BG 10.8 I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
Purport
A learned scholar who has studied the Vedas perfectly and has information from authorities like Lord Caitanya and who knows how to apply these teachings can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything in both the material and spiritual worlds, and because he knows this perfectly he becomes firmly fixed in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. He can never be deviated by any amount of nonsensical commentaries or by fools. All Vedic literature agrees that Kṛṣṇa is the source of Brahmā, Śiva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmāṇaḿ vidadhāti pūrvaḿ yo vai vedāḿś ca gāpayati sma kṛṣṇaḥ: "It was Kṛṣṇa who in the beginning instructed Brahmā in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past." Then again the Nārāyaṇa Upaniṣad (1) says, atha puruṣo ha vai nārāyaṇo 'kāmayata prajāḥ sṛjeyeti: "Then the Supreme Personality Nārāyaṇa desired to create living entities." The Upaniṣad continues, nārāyaṇād brahmā jāyate, nārāyaṇād prajāpatiḥ prajāyate, nārāyaṇād indro jāyate, nārāyaṇād aṣṭau vasavo jāyante, nārāyaṇād ekādaśa rudrā jāyante, nārāyaṇād dvādaśādityāḥ: "From Nārāyaṇa, Brahmā is born, and from Nārāyaṇa the patriarchs are also born. From Nārāyaṇa, Indra is born, from Nārāyaṇa the eight Vasus are born, from Nārāyaṇa the eleven Rudras are born, from Nārāyaṇa the twelve Ādityas are born." This Nārāyaṇa is an expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
It is said in the same Vedas, brahmaṇyo devakī-putraḥ: "The son of Devakī, Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality." (Nārāyaṇa Upaniṣad 4) Then it is said, eko vai nārāyaṇa āsīn na brahmā na īśāno nāpo nāgni-samau neme dyāv-āpṛthivī na nakṣatrāṇi na sūryaḥ: "In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Nārāyaṇa. There was no Brahmā, no Śiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun." (Mahā Upaniṣad 1) In the Mahā Upaniṣad it is also said that Lord Śiva was born from the forehead of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahmā and Śiva, who is to be worshiped.
Here in the above purport Srila Prabhupada clearly quoting from upanisads to establish Krishna's supremacy and confirming they are part of vedas.
NOW WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DENY PRABHUPADA AND MASK HIMSELF AS A VAISNAVA. WITHOUT FAITH IN GURU AND SHASTRA NO PROGRESS CAN BE DONE. KRISHNA IS NOT CHEAP.
Your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hare Krsna Prabhu jee!
Your posts can turn off anyone.
Hari Bol!
Hari Bol!
But does not Guru parampara start from Vyasa Himself. HE is the authority who can connect us to Supreme Self. Shall we doubt HIM?
Hari Bol.
Hare Krishna Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Few things we need to know when determining authenticity of any shastras under the branch of vedas.There are few methodologies to determine the authenticy of any shastra. Vedic texts flows in two branches i.e Shruti and Smriti. Shruti is primary and Smriti is secondary , Shruti is independent where Smriti is dependent on Shruti. Any Smriti's conclusion/Verdict should be judged based on Shruti i.e if any Smriti is concluding something as final it must and should be inline with the final statement of Shruti.
SO IF A SMRITI IS CONTRADICTING SHRUTI IT SHOULD NOT NEVER BE CONSISDERED AUTHENTIC AND NEVER EVER WRITTEN BY VYASA, whoever may be claim that it dosen't matter BECAUSE SRUTI EVIDENCE IS BENCHMARK TO PROVE SMRITI.
NOW......puranas comes under Smritis. Puranas generally elaborate the stories of THE GOD/PURUSHA (THE PRIMEVAL BEING OF THE UNIVERSE I.E VISHNU/KRISHNA) in it's all texts.According to Vedas (rig,sama,yayur ) the PURUSA or GOD is Vishnu/Narayana/Krishna ,vastly cited in the famous PURUSA SUKTAM in all the four vedas. So when a Purana talks about the Creator of the universe it must represent Vishnu or Krishna as supreme in its content if it is not then IT IS NO WAY AUTHENTIC.
So In Devi-Bhagavatam where supreme is mentioned as Devi and not the Purusha how can it be considered authentic . IT IS CLEARLY CONTRADICTING VEDAS...........HENCE it is not written by Vyasa beacuse Vyasa is one who compiled the four vedas, He just can't contradict.
THE CONCLUSION IS Devi-Bhgavatam is not written by Vyasa , hence not authentic .There is no second thought about that. We should scientifically establish our firm faith in our shastras only with proper conviction and analysis.
Hope this will help.
Your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
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