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Conceptual understanding our thoughts vis a vis following scriptures as it is

 

Recently during my conversations on the aspect of relevance of our thoughts in the process of Krishna Consciousness.

 

One way of looking at it is our thoughts may come up with some misconceptions through our mental concoctions & speculations and we may deviate from the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness. The living entity within this material world is full with four defects that we are already aware of. It is one of the important factor that discriminate Krishna Consciousness from other cults or processes but it may lead to lose of individuality.

 

Other way of looking at it is Individuality is an essential ingredient of Jivatma or super soul that Krsna has endowed to us and we must culminate the realizations through our own thoughts and percepts. The thinkers of this thought are of the view that if we don't let our thoughts grow within our-self then it becomes more of stereotyped approach without any realization. Further the other way of looking at this approach is culmination of thoughts are also coming from the heart, wherein the Super soul in the form of parmatma is guiding and inspiring us to cultivate those thoughts. We may also apply the concept of free will and minute independence of jivatma here here but some more explanations are appreciable. Also their criticism to first approach is our mentality becomes more close ended then being open thinking through,

 

Can someone throw some deeper lights on this aspects to culminate the right understanding on the basis Krishna Consciousness philosophy? Thank you Hare Krishna

 

 

 

 

 


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Hare Krsna.

 

Dandavat pranams.  All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.  All Glories to Sri Guru & Gauranga.

 

I appreciate your article on Relevance of our thoughts in the process of Krsna Consciousness.

 

May I request your kind permission to anaylse every sentence deliberately.  I am speaking personally for myself and these are my views, from my whatever little right/wrong understanding I have been able to gather.  So kindly please accept it as my humble offering.

 

"One way of looking at it is our thoughts may come up with some misconceptions through our mental concoctions & speculations and we may deviate from the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness."

     -Absoultely right, Sir.  We dont speculate or concoct.  We stick to the knowledge coming from the Acharyas.

 

Here I wish to kindly draw your attention to acquisition of knowledge.  It is generally accepted that knowledge can be gained by either (1) 'Avaroha-panth' (Descending sytem from higher sources/authorities) or  (2)'Aroha-panth' (Ascending system of acquiring knowledge)

 The Vedic process of acquiring knowledge is by the 'Avaroha-panth', desceding from higher authorities.

 

 "The living entity within this material world is full with four defects that we are already aware of."

- As you have rightly pointed out.  This is one of the causes why we accept the Avaroha-panth way.  (But at the same time, please kindly note that there are other causes too.)

 

"It is one of the important factor that discriminate Krishna Consciousness from other cults or processes but it may lead to lose of individuality."

--- it MAY lead to loss of individuality.  Let us be sure.  No 'MAY'.  Let us be clear 'Yes, it will lead to loss of individuality.' or 'No, it will not lead to loss of individuality.'  The answer has to be clear.

My answer would be - 'No, it will not lead to loss of individuality.  There is no loss of individuality.  We are all individual souls and every soul has its individuality.'

(This may ask for some explanation, might be with some quotes & verses.)

 

As you have said, the Jivatma has individuality and we must culminate the realizations through our own thoughts and percepts. 

--I feel, yes, this is also true.  Every individual has own unique realizations which one experiences.  Everyones realisations are uniques.  Their thoughts are unique. 

'Just that the process is the same.  Chanting  the Holy Names.  Everyone chants the same Hare Krsna.  Everyone follows the same sterotype process, the same routines and rituals.  But Everyone has his own unique thoughts, percepts, realizations.  Every Jivatma has a unique indivual relation with the Lord. ' 

 

A further point which you have said is that the Super-soul within, the Parmatma, is always guiding & cultivating our thoughts.

--This too is true.  The Parmatma guides & cultivates our thoughts, and hence there is so much varigatedness.  The Jivatmas free-will, has a choice to what it likes.  It can choose what to do.  It can choose whether 'To' or 'Not To'.

 

Prabhuji, I feel this is the way of thought processes. Its the Consciousness which is the most important.  So thoughts, I feel, do play the most important role in Krsna Consciousness. 

 

Summarily, I feel, the process is accepted without any questions(or role of concoction/speculation), but the individual and the individuality are without doubt free to cultiminate one realizations towards rediscovering ones unique individuality and one unique relation in eternity.

 

Please forgive my offenses and mistakes.  May be I have attempted a 'Sumeru' type question.  Please Bless Me.

Your comments please.

 

Hare Krsna.  Dandavat pranams.

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate and thank you very much to your response to my query as it entails deeper understanding and realisation of the process.  Further I would like to seek your explanation on following:

 

The term loss of individuality is not in relation to existence of soul but in relation to culmination of individual thought process.

 

Also it is true that we follow the principle of Avroha Pantha. My focus in relation to your explanation:

 

'Just that the process is the same.  Chanting  the Holy Names.  Everyone chants the same Hare Krsna.  Everyone follows the same sterotype process, the same routines and rituals.  But Everyone has his own unique thoughts, percepts, realizations.  Every Jivatma has a unique indivual relation with the Lord. '

 

Its true but here I wanted to understand that differences of thoughts and realisations among the devotees is within the process & percepts of Krsna Consciousness. It can be said that its jurisdiction is within the limited domain. Like a close ended box with no thinking beyond close ended box. Here I mean to keep the thinking process open like open box i.e. not just being stuck to one system or process. 

 

Though I have no criticism against it personally. Just wanted to get some enlightening views on it.

 

Thanks Hare Krsna

 

Hare Krsna,

 

Dandavat pranams.  All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.  All Glories to Sri Guru & Gauranga.

 

Thank you so much Prahuji.  I appreciate your wonderful discussion.

 

May I request your kind permission to discuss the following two statements:

 

(1)The term loss of individuality is not in relation to existence of soul but in relation to culmination of individual thought process.

 

(2)But Everyone has his own unique thoughts, percepts, realizations.  Every Jivatma has a unique indivual relation with the Lord. ' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As we have said, (1)the loss of individuality might be in relation to individual thought proceess, (2)Every Soul(Jivatma) has its unique individuality, unique thoughts, unique relation with the Lord.

 

 

 

 

We are confused because of 'duality'.  The Duality of the Matter & Spirit.

 

 

 

 

 

B.G. 7.4:

bhümir äpo 'nalo väyuù
khaà mano buddhir eva ca
ahaìkära itéyaà me
bhinnä prakåtir añöadhä

 

 

 

Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

 

So, the body is made up of 5 Gross elements - Earth, water, fire, air, & ether.

The Body is made up of 3 subtle elements - Mind, intelligence & false ego.

 

The Soul is different from the body. (It has its own individuality, its thoughts, its uniqueness)

 

Now, this Individuality & this Thought Process, which we are talking about is the thoughts we get in this mind. These thoughts are material.  They are produced because of interaction with matter.

 

B.G. 3.27

prakåteù kriyamäëäni
guëaiù karmäëi sarvaçaù
ahaìkära-vimüòhätmä
kartäham iti manyate

 

Translation:  The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.

 

So, the Body and the mind get various Thought processes and perceptions, depending on its state.  There are 3 basis modes of this state - Goodness(Satva), Passion(Raja) & Ignorance(Tama).  (Also called Bondage).  So all these thoughts are still material because they are coming from the 'material mind'.

 

What is this 'material mind'?  Is there a Spiritual Mind?  I am referring to a state of mind, that is either materially tinted or Free from material bondage.

 

This stage of freedom from material bindings is called the pure stage (Constitutional position).  The stage where the mind is not free from the material bindings is the Conditioned State

 

In this Conditoned State (Badha-jiva or bounded-soul) one cannot even talk about thoughts and percepts, they are all actually materially tainted and contaminated.

 

When one is freed from the Conditioned Stage of the body, one dwelling on the Spiritual platform, then the true spiritual individuality is revealed, and the true thoughts and percepts are revealed in the pure stage.

 

Till the time one is in the Conditioned (Badha-jiva Stage) he is in a closed box.  When one is freed, the thinking process is liberated and it dwells in its pure unlimited (sat-cit-anand) form.

 

This is just some understanding which I have learnt from our philosophy.  Discussions with devotees engrossed in academics vedic studies and devotional service , will definitely help us in our understanding and reaching our targeted goals.  The article is presented herewith for your kind perusal.

 

I pray at your lotus feet, to kindly forgive any offenses.  Praying for your blessings.

 

Hari Bol.  Dandavats.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for giving me a better insight on the subject.

 

Yours Servant

 

Rasanand Das

Q. DOES ALL VARIETIES OF DESIRE FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION ARISE FROM MENTAL CONCOCTION ? WHAT ARE SOME MENTAL CONCOCTION ? PART 1.‏

http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...

Q. DOES ALL VARIETIES OF DESIRE FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION ARISE FROM MENTAL CONCOCTION ? WHAT ARE SOME MENTAL CONCOCTIONS ? PART 2.‏

http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...

Q. DOES ALL VARIETIES OF DESIRE FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION ARISE FROM MENTAL CONCOCTION ? WHAT ARE SOME MENTAL CONCOCTIONS ? PART 3.‏

http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...

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