Hare Krsna Mataji
Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada
I'm not trying to convince you, you have made a choice and that is up to you, I hope that you did it by evaluating with all the evidence and not out of ignoranc.
Many people accept things in ignorance and that is not good, so the ritvik advocates try to give evidence of what Srila Prabhupada actually said and wrote and not what someone may misremember or makeup.
Devotees should at least have all the information before they make a decision of who they follow. Do you not agree?
Your Servant
Jeremiah
Krishna Dasan > Jeremiah J MairJuly 13, 2017 at 2:50pm
Hare krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
The issues seen 'outside' is an 'reflection' of the issues 'inside', for this world is a "mirror" for every Jiva. The conflicts are purely 'transitional' in nature. If Jiva's desire is strong enough for better experience (than what is available in this world), then there is progress. The pursuit depends on the sincerity/honesty of Jiva's desire & the sadhana thereafter. The more the sincerity, the better the lord showers 'mercy'.
Radha Rasamayi DD Mataji Response that captures this essence:
After all, I will reach God not on the basis of which organisation I belong to, but on the basis of my personal sadhana
The university creates the course and prescribes certain regulations for the student to get a degree. Certain things are censored under university rules. For example the student cannot copy in the exam. If he disobeys he will not get the degree. Just there are do's and dont's in the university rule book similarly there are do's and dont's in the scriptures. If it not there in university rule book the student should not follow it. If it is not there in the scriptures one should not follow it.
The university gives full freedom to the students to obey or disobey it. Those who obey get the degree and those who disobey don't get the degree. The duty of the student is to obey the university rules.
Similarly the soul has full freedom. Just as the duty of the student is to study similarly the duty of the soul is to serve. Just as the student can disobey the university and get a fail the soul can disobey the scriptures , serve the senses in the body and remain in this mortal world full of miseries. Just as the student obeys the instructions of the university, the soul can listen to the scriptures, serve the supreme and return back to Vaikuntha free of miseries.
Just as the university has censored certain things to get the degree similarly, scriptures have censored certain things to revive our original eternal identity, to serve the Lord and get rid of this mortal world.
S.Balaji prabhu, you have misunderstood censorship for rules and regulations. Censorship means:
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
So my question was, why is there censorship in today's Iskcon? Censorship of thought, ideas and discussion about certain subjects.
Pls explain what you mean by censorship. We call it training the mind - which we have to do in any field, whether education or to acquire any skills... just imagine, if we have to train our mind for a mundane thing which gives temporary benefits, how much more we need to train our mind for the ultimate thing - gift of love of GOd.
To Wizeman prabhu, it is fashionable to do ISKCON bashing, esp on this website. Makes a few people feel great, like they achieved something. If you have any specific pain points, you can discuss, sweeping statements are not recommended.
What independent progressive thought has been repressed? And what is the rhetoric that "seniors" in ISKCON ask you to repeat?
There was an instance when one devotee walked upto Prabhupada and said, the 4 regulative principles are very difficult to follow. SP said, dont follow. It is completely voluntary, there is no force.
First you will come here voluntarily, then bash up everyone because it is your birthright. And ofcourse everyone is supposed to be polite and tolerant, because after all - trinadapi sunicena, tarorapi sahishnuna.... this doesnt apply to people who have so called understood. This is a voluntary organisation. There are poeple at different levels in this organisation - right from neophyte to pramahamsas, Pls do not generalise.
Because ISKCON started with a noble, (albeit naive) idea - but then progressed to a "cult-like" movement. It has become a fantasy world escape for the intellectually weak, who are unable to bear the stresses of modern living. There is no scope of independent/progressive thought in ISKCON and you have to keep repeating the rhetoric put in position by the "seniors" to be deemed fit enough for "KC" (or Krishna Consciousness for the uninitiated) - otherwise you are just a "rascal". Plus there is a severe emphasis on "chanting" all through your waking hours, so that no stray thoughts or unwelcome questions come to your mind - akin to a form of mind control. Logic severely fails here and any pragmatic thought is beaten to death by one or more of the phrases - "Not in the scriptures", "Demonic thoughts", "You'll understand when you give up all tamasic foods and only eat prasadam and chant your rounds" etc.
Modern day ISKCON has become a cross between Late Medieval Bhakti Scriptures, American Christian Conservatism, Staunch Islamism and Scientology.
Replies
Only pure devotee can recognize another one. Such devotees are rare to be seen.
Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada
I'm not trying to convince you, you have made a choice and that is up to you, I hope that you did it by evaluating with all the evidence and not out of ignoranc.
Many people accept things in ignorance and that is not good, so the ritvik advocates try to give evidence of what Srila Prabhupada actually said and wrote and not what someone may misremember or makeup.
Devotees should at least have all the information before they make a decision of who they follow. Do you not agree?
Your Servant
Jeremiah
Hare krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
The issues seen 'outside' is an 'reflection' of the issues 'inside', for this world is a "mirror" for every Jiva. The conflicts are purely 'transitional' in nature. If Jiva's desire is strong enough for better experience (than what is available in this world), then there is progress. The pursuit depends on the sincerity/honesty of Jiva's desire & the sadhana thereafter. The more the sincerity, the better the lord showers 'mercy'.
Radha Rasamayi DD Mataji Response that captures this essence:
After all, I will reach God not on the basis of which organisation I belong to, but on the basis of my personal sadhana
Sarvam Krishnaarpanam!
The university creates the course and prescribes certain regulations for the student to get a degree. Certain things are censored under university rules. For example the student cannot copy in the exam. If he disobeys he will not get the degree. Just there are do's and dont's in the university rule book similarly there are do's and dont's in the scriptures. If it not there in university rule book the student should not follow it. If it is not there in the scriptures one should not follow it.
The university gives full freedom to the students to obey or disobey it. Those who obey get the degree and those who disobey don't get the degree. The duty of the student is to obey the university rules.
Similarly the soul has full freedom. Just as the duty of the student is to study similarly the duty of the soul is to serve. Just as the student can disobey the university and get a fail the soul can disobey the scriptures , serve the senses in the body and remain in this mortal world full of miseries. Just as the student obeys the instructions of the university, the soul can listen to the scriptures, serve the supreme and return back to Vaikuntha free of miseries.
Just as the university has censored certain things to get the degree similarly, scriptures have censored certain things to revive our original eternal identity, to serve the Lord and get rid of this mortal world.
Haribol,
S.Balaji.
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
So my question was, why is there censorship in today's Iskcon? Censorship of thought, ideas and discussion about certain subjects.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Pls explain what you mean by censorship. We call it training the mind - which we have to do in any field, whether education or to acquire any skills... just imagine, if we have to train our mind for a mundane thing which gives temporary benefits, how much more we need to train our mind for the ultimate thing - gift of love of GOd.
To Wizeman prabhu, it is fashionable to do ISKCON bashing, esp on this website. Makes a few people feel great, like they achieved something. If you have any specific pain points, you can discuss, sweeping statements are not recommended.
What independent progressive thought has been repressed? And what is the rhetoric that "seniors" in ISKCON ask you to repeat?
There was an instance when one devotee walked upto Prabhupada and said, the 4 regulative principles are very difficult to follow. SP said, dont follow. It is completely voluntary, there is no force.
First you will come here voluntarily, then bash up everyone because it is your birthright. And ofcourse everyone is supposed to be polite and tolerant, because after all - trinadapi sunicena, tarorapi sahishnuna.... this doesnt apply to people who have so called understood. This is a voluntary organisation. There are poeple at different levels in this organisation - right from neophyte to pramahamsas, Pls do not generalise.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Because ISKCON started with a noble, (albeit naive) idea - but then progressed to a "cult-like" movement. It has become a fantasy world escape for the intellectually weak, who are unable to bear the stresses of modern living. There is no scope of independent/progressive thought in ISKCON and you have to keep repeating the rhetoric put in position by the "seniors" to be deemed fit enough for "KC" (or Krishna Consciousness for the uninitiated) - otherwise you are just a "rascal". Plus there is a severe emphasis on "chanting" all through your waking hours, so that no stray thoughts or unwelcome questions come to your mind - akin to a form of mind control. Logic severely fails here and any pragmatic thought is beaten to death by one or more of the phrases - "Not in the scriptures", "Demonic thoughts", "You'll understand when you give up all tamasic foods and only eat prasadam and chant your rounds" etc.
Modern day ISKCON has become a cross between Late Medieval Bhakti Scriptures, American Christian Conservatism, Staunch Islamism and Scientology.
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