Just curious if anyone finds this topic interesting. And I'm not even sure how this discussion part of IskconDesireTree works. Anyhow, I'll hit their "start discussion button" and see what happens. Jai Radhe.
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re: Dear Bhaktin Maral, My comments I placed in all caps, after yours, only to help me reply to all your points. Simply that it helps us to see both our comments at once.
Religion without knowledge is sental mentalism. And knowledge without religion is speculation. The word religio means connection. And that connection should be between Supreme Soul and His eternal particle -soul....But before becoming religious one should rise up to the stage of human being, isn't he?....And human being follows 4 regulative principles and chants 16 rounds of japa. It is the stage of a human being. So if Cathilic people follow this and serve to God than it is nice. But if for example, we massage one leg of father but beat another leg then it is not so intelligent, isn't it? In this way animals are children of God so killing them and trying to serve to God is like that massage making only. YOUR ANALOGY HERE IS VERY GOOD. I HAD NEVER HEARD IT STATED BEFORE. THE MAJORITY OF EVERYDAY CATHOLICS DO EAT MEAT. YET, IF YOU STUDY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FAMOUS NUN, SOR MARIA DE JESUS DE AGREDA (SPAIN) SHE WAS A VEGETARIAN AND VERY AUSTERE. BETTER TO LOVE ALL OF GOD, INCLUDING HIS LESSER CREATURES.
God has many different types of servants. One part may be His wives, one part may be His cows, or another part His friends etc. In this way not everyone will to go to Goloka but to Vaikuntha planets. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT PLANETS AND WONDER IF THERE IS AN ENTIRE CHRISTIAN PLANET FOR THE SERVANTS OF CHRIST.
As like in Murari Gupta's life. Lord Chaitanya told him to worship Krishna. So he tried but was not able to forget his Rama. and Lord was pleased with his firm faith into Lord Rama. I, TOO, REMEMBER THIS STORY AND OFTEN REMEMBER AND USE IT TO MAKE THIS VERY POINT, AS SRILA PRABHUPA, HIMSELF USED IT TO EXPLAIN THAT GOD HAS MANY NAMES.
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Also in order to love someone we need to hear about his qualities, isn't it?! WELL, I HAVE READ ENOUGH CATHOLIC LITERATURE TO SAY THAT CATHOLICS HAVE PLENTY OF APPRECIATION FOR THE DIVINE QUALITIES OF GOD TO LOVE HIM. I RECENTLY READ "THE LIFE OF SAINT JOSEPH" THAT WAS WRITTEN BY DIVINE REVELATION BY THE ITALIAN NUN, MARIA CECILIA BAIJ (1713-1766) AFTER GOD TOLD HER TO PUT HER INSPIRED THOUGHT DOWN ON PAPER. THIS WONDERFUL BOOK IS FULL GOD'S QUALITIES; QUALITIES THAT BOTH JOSEPH AND MARY WERE ENDOWED WITH. SOR MARIA DE JESUS' BOOK, "THE MYSTICAL CITY OF GOD" WAS WRITTEN AROUND THE SAME TIME AS CECILIA'S BOOK AND ALTHOUGH I AM STILL READING IT, AGAIN THE WONDERFUL QUALITIES OF GOD ARE OVERFLOWING. A MORE MODERN BOOK, "THROUGH THE EYES OF JESUS" BY ALAN AMES, LEAVES YOU LOVING CHRIST AFTER YOU READ IT BECAUSE THE QUALITIES OF JESUS ARE SO NICELY PRESENTED. THIS WAS ALSO WRITTEN BY DIVINE REVELATION.
Or else how to love someone whom we do not know?! If other religions are giving true explanation of God as Supreme Person with the knowledge coming from authorized parampara then it is great. ONLY THIS LAST MONTH I WAS THINKING HOW THERE ARE TWO GREAT SAMPRADAYS - THE CHRISTIAN SAMPRADAYA AND THE GAUDIA SAMPRADAYA. JUST SOMETHING I WAS THINKING, COMPLETE WITH THEIR RESPECTIVE PARAMPARAS.
But if they fail to do that then we have to find true religion. I DO BELIEVE IN TRUE RELIGION. AND THAT IS TO LOVE GOD WITH ALL MY HEART, MIND AND SOUL.
i know You know all these things far far far better than me, and also know that You pasted this discussion so that we use our intelligence not because You do not know the answer. I HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME NOW. I HAVE TO LEAVE IN ONE HOUR AND NEED TO GET DRESSED. PERHAPS WE CAN CONTINUE LATER.
....Thank you so much for taking your time to reply to my discussion. By the way, I visited your page and was admiring the bead bag you made and your other pictures. There was one photo in particular, devotees dancing in a forest, that was especially wonderful. Yes, the government has called me to jury duty this morning and I now have to go. But I have a good book to read since there will be a lot of time just sitting and waiting. Jai Radhe, Rsd
my humble obeisances Prabhuji, All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Yes, there might a special spiritual planet for true Christians. Because from history we learn that Lord gave spiritual planet to His Devotee Dhruva. So why He won't give such like planet for Jesus Christ and his followers?!
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When we said about love we told that we should know that person - the object of our love. And to love we can only a personality. And in order to be called as a person there should be 4 things:
1. Form
2. Qualities
3. Names
4. Deeds-pastimes
So when we want to love God not only His qualities we should study but also His Form, deeds and His names, isn't it?!
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It is true if one practices Bible very seriously and honestly than he or she will become a pure Devotee. And it is for sure there were many such like great Devotees. I also heard about Young girl Yefpraksinya. Who joined Temple life when she was a child and she also was austere.
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And in this age there is only one way of achieving love for Godhead. And that method is chanting of the Holy Names. There is no other way.
Your servant,
Dear Bhaktin Maral, Thank your for sharing your thoughts again. It is very much appreciated.
Regarding spiritual planets, the Holy Bible is very light on details compared to the Catholic visionaries and mystics who have written about their divine insights. And yes, a spiritual planet is mentioned, but I do find it curious that more detail seems to have been written about hell. Like I was saying, the Christian path seems to mean, in part, a navigation through Judgement, Purgatory, Hell, etc. However, what I did not know is that the quantity of divine revelations that have been been left behind by the Catholic Saints over the past 2000 years is absolutely immense. So to be clear, I really mean that so far in my very tiny amount of reading, hell is mostly described.
Regarding what you mention about love (points 1,2,3,4, etc.), all I can say is that I wish I had just a smidgen of the love that so many of the Christians have, and have had, for Jesus. I say Christians because Catholics are not the only ones who love Christ, or have written about their love. But having said that, my favorite are Catholics. But you really need to set aside all the unfortunate baggage they have and just look at the good. And looking, there is, and has been such enormous faith and love. Since I am only reading Catholic history right now, what is even more impressive is how this faith has unfolded in such vivid and vibrant ways (re: ..."Our Lady came with the Holy Infant (Jesus) in her arms and She allowed Agnes to hold baby Jesus and caress Him. Unwilling to let the infant Jesus go, Agnes held on tightly when Our Lady Mary reached to take Her Son back. When Agnes woke from her ecstasy, Mary and Her Holy Child were gone, but Agnes was still clutching tightly the little gold cross that the infant Jesus had worn on a chain about His neck. She kept this as a precious treasure.") And it does seems that Mary has especially given Catholics the Form, Qualities, Names, Deeds and Pastimes that you rightly mention. I must say that I believe that Mary is an expansion of Radha. Catholics pray, "Hail Mary, full of Grace, blessed art thou amongst woman..." There is so much wonderful literature about Mary that reveals her different Forms, Qualities, Names, Deeds and Pastimes. Just to name a few: the story of her appearance and manifestation as Guadalupe; Her divine manifestation to Bernadette Soubirous in Lourdes, France; The interaction between Mary with Catherine Laboure (who spoke to the Mother of Christ for two hours while resting her hands in Mary's lap); and Mary's interaction with Sor Maria de Jesus de Agreda (who has described Mary so vividly in her book, "The Mystical City of God,") ...just to mention a few.
At the end you mention, "there is only one way of achieving love for Godhead. And that method is chanting of the Holy Names. There is no other way." There is a wonderful book called, "The Way of the Pilgrim," about a poor Russian peasant who in the 1800s wanders throughout rural Russia seeking instruction on how to pray all the time - which is a commandment found in the Bible: 1 Thessalonians 5:17. Anyhow, The Way of the Pilgrim introduced me to the, "Jesus Prayer" and the lifelong and constant practice of very many devoted Catholics who chant over and over this prayer, all day and all the time (for example, the monks on Mount Athos do this). The book has many sweet stories connected to the Holy Name and this Pilgrim; along with some very powerful theology and science of the Holy Name. I have read this book 4-5 times over the years.
Again, thank you. All glories to the Holy Name. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada, any my warmest regards to you. Rsd
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