Just curious if anyone finds this topic interesting. And I'm not even sure how this discussion part of IskconDesireTree works. Anyhow, I'll hit their "start discussion button" and see what happens. Jai Radhe.
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In a few minutes I will have finished, Saints Who Raised the Dead, by the Catholic priest, Albert J. Hebert, S.M. Finishing this book does not signal the end of my Catholic reading, but this book has certainly been a huge help to me. I was then wondering what the world would be like today if Jesus had not appeared and founded upon St. Peter the Catholic Church. Of course, there is a dark side to Christianity that saddens me because Jesus was not about darkness and oppression. I do not mean that Christ and His teachings and His pure followers were involved in darkness, but sadly, many so called Christians "in the name of Christ" have done horrible things. For example, the British intellectuals and superior elitist who at one time took the sacred scriptures of India back to England and in their smoke filled ivy-league institutions "tweaked" the Vedas and then flooded English-occupied schools in India with these doctored texts, all with the goal of convincing young Hindus that their scriptures were inferiorly-stupid, and how Christianity was thus proved vastly superior. This is the kind of darkness I am talking about. If you were to collect and codify the horrors inflicted upon mankind by Christianity, you would end up with a volume too long to read. And certain aspects of the Catholic church took the lead in this rein of darkness. That is the sad part. While I am not blind to this darkness, thank God I don't dwell upon it. In fact, I pretty much ignore it. Instead I try to find the nectar. My mind kind of works like that. My vision kind of works like a magic eraser and the darkness and junk just vanishes, leaving only the love and good. Then I read, rejoice and marvel in piece. The other day I was replying to Divya Prabhu and wrote the following, which is beautiful and good:
"....I especially like to see things that they (our two religions) share. Take for example these two wonderful events: Shrinivasa Acharya practiced intensive internal worship of Radha and Krishna...While doing service to Radha-Krishna within his mind he would often bring tangible paraphernalia from these meditations back with him upon returning to external consciousness. Once Shrinivasa sat Lord Gauranga on a jeweled throne within his mind. Then he worshiped the Lord with a golden handled chamara whisk and a five flower garland. Pleased with his service, the Lord offered the garland back to Shrinivasa, who then immediately awoke from his meditation. A surprised Shrinivasa found the sweetest flower garland he ever smelled hanging around his neck when he returned to external consciousness. Now let us compare how Shrinivas was able to bring a tangible object from his divine meditation back with him upon "awakening," to what happened to the Catholic Saint, St. Agnes. "She lived in Italy, in the year 1268. She fasted for 15 years on bread and water and slept on the ground with a rock for a pillow. At the young age of 14, Agnes reached a high degree of contemplative prayer and was favored with many visions. One of the loveliest is the occasion of a visit from the Blessed Virgin. Our Lady came with the Holy Infant (Jesus) in her arms and She allowed Agnes to hold baby Jesus and caress Him. Unwilling to let the infant Jesus go, Agnes held on tightly when Our Lady Mary reached to take Her Son back. When Agnes woke from her ecstasy, Mary and Her Holy Child were gone, but Agnes was still clutching tightly the little gold cross that the infant Jesus had worn on a chain about His neck. She kept this as a precious treasure" (Taken from the book, "Saints who Raised the Dead" by Father Albert J. Herbert, Tan Books).
There are other similar example along this same theme that could be placed side-by-side and enjoyed. These are the "Beautiful Stories of the Lord" that make me most happy. Jai Radhe, Rsd
Prophet Told I am The Messenger Of God ..
The type of people whom this knowledge about god was given , were very fallen they were not even following the basic principles. People were athiest , they were worshipping Humans rather than god .
Jesus told the people before being cruisfied " I can not tell you everything , i am giving you only that knowledge which you can understand , if jesus would have told them to not to eat meat , observe fast ,they would have found very difficult to follow .
NUN the only left man when destruction took place , was saved because he was pious , the story mentioned in bible is similar to Lord Vishnu incarnation of Fish .. you can read that , and this will make you more firm that Sanatan Dharma is eternal , it was never made or introduced in society ,religion were made and introduced to human being on instruction of god to make guidelines for people who had deviated from path of Krsna Conciousness , the purpose was not to make them away from krishna , but to make them capable of accepting krishna .
Many thing's i can not write , but i can feel it , and what i feel is the glory of krishna , the plans he had made to unite everyone irrespective of his caste , creed ,nationality .. Because religion is to serve god .
You must read " Aquarian Of Gospel " , it will provide to the relationship between Jesus and Krishna .
Jesus never claimed him to be god , but he said i am son of god,he said pious souls will come soon and they will give you the truth .
Just look at the birth of Jesus , when he was born God was guiding Yusuf , now just look when Krishna was born , Krsna himself was guiding Vasudev .
every thing mentioned in Bible is comprised of " 7 " seven days , sunday is holiday , seven secret keys .
Sanatan Dharma also mentions the importance of the 7 number .
The creation process mentioned in Bible is similar to mentioned in Sanatan Dharma , but in Sanatan Dharma it is given very detailed .
Jesus say i am messanger of god , Prophet says i am messenger of god , Krishna says i am god .
Unless we learn about god , we can not know in perfect the teachings of Jesus and vice-versa is also true .
Jesus said " Without knowing me , God can not be known "
Krishna say's " Sarv Dharm Paritajya , Mam Ekam sharnama Vraja , Abandon all form of religion and surrender unto me .. "
if we want to go not even to Vaikuntha but to Goloka Vrindavan where every tree is a desire tree, where every cow is a surabhi cow, where no steps but dance, where no words but songs..., if we want to be not with even Lord Vishnu but with that sweet Gopal with flute on His hands, with garland made of forest fruits around His neck ...surrounded with cows ... then we have to chant the
Holy Names of Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
again NO OTHER WAY.
But if we want to go to other places than it is ok to chant other Names of God. But we want that Gopal, Govinda, Gopinath.
Your servant,
Dear Bhaktin Maral, When I read what you written over these past few days and think of replying to what you have said, I cannot help but lower myself as I feel like I am speaking to a saint. Would it be too forward to ask for your blessings? As far as what you have just written, I fully agree. I have always thought that when Christians go to their spiritual planet, it will be then that they will discover more. And since most good Christians are very loyal to Jesus and want only His shelter, and want to only hear from Him - as it should be - then that will be so wonderful for them; that day He reveals the glory of Krsna to them. I would like to see that.
Once again, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you. Rsd
QUESTIONS ASKED TO SRILA PRABHUPADA. PART 248. ON GOD REALIZATION, SELF-REALIZATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
QUESTIONS ASKED TO SRILA PRABHUPADA. PART 246. ON GOD REALIZATION, SELF-REALIZATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
QUESTIONS ASKED TO SRILA PRABHUPADA. PART 237. ON GOD REALIZATION, SELF-REALIZATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
QUESTIONS ASKED TO SRILA PRABHUPADA. PART 216. ON CHANTING THE HOLY NAME.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
QUESTIONS ASKED TO SRILA PRABHUPADA. PART 215. ON CHANTING THE HOLY NAME.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Dear Gopal, Please accept my warmest regards. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. You have responded with a lot of reading, But for simplicity, let us look at the first link you sent and see what it says. Student: ....There are different techniques for reaching Christ consciousness or God consciousness or self-realization. What test do you recommend for finding out which technique is the best? Shrila Prabhupāda: ....That technique is best by which you develop your love of God. That is the test. If by following Christian religion or Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion you actually develop your transcendental love for God, that is the best technique. If you have no love for God, simply you follow the technique, then it is simply laboring. That's all.
Actually that first link has other discussions listed with it, but this was first on the list. Positively, this is an equally strong and common goal with both Catholics and devotees. Of course, chanting the Holy Names is most rewarding in this respect. I like it that devotees are more tolerant and understanding when it comes to what Name to chant. Christians seem bent on "Jesus is the only Name," or way. I still like to think in terms of the Christian Sampradaya and the Krsna Sampradaya. Then it may not be such a stretch for Christians to insist that within their Sampradaya, Jesus is the only way. I see no reason to argue about it and you cannot say that their Sampradaya is lacking in passing Prabhupada's test.
Dear Zola Preetam, Thank you for this wonderful verse. Very nice. But how sad when I examine my love for the Lord. This is why I pray for His Mercy. This is the favor I need. Your blessing would also help. By the way, since I am not promoting a business or selling anything, you might enjoy a new and free website I recently created: Ancient Vedic Radio where music is always streaming. Just a little something positive I have wanted to do for a couple of years and finally was able to.
Dear Divya, Thank you for your nice comments. You mention, in part: "The answer I believe would be - any one or both or any other...I also believe God is one...Both teaches us good things so both are good...I would like to learn all good things from all religions"
Thinking about what you have kindly mentioned, while I agree that God is "one," I do believe the reality of that "One" can be very different from one religion to the next; such as the tremendous difference between the different blind-men's description of the same elephant; the same creature, but for the one who explored the ivory tusk with his hands compared to the description of the blind man who found the thin, leather-like ear, although they were describing the same animal, how vastly different what they told their teacher what an elephant was like.
But to stay positive, I too enjoy learning all good thing from all religions. I especially like to see things that they share. Take for example these two wonderful events: Shrinivasa Acharya practiced intensive internal worship of Radha and Krishna...While doing service to Radha-Krishna within his mind he would often bring tangible paraphernalia from these meditations back with him upon returning to external consciousness. Once Shrinivasa sat Lord Gauranga on a jeweled throne within his mind. Then he worshiped the Lord with a golden handled chamara whisk and a five flower garland. Pleased with his service, the Lord offered the garland back to Shrinivasa, who then immediately awoke from his meditation. A surprised Shrinivasa found the sweetest flower garland he ever smelled hanging around his neck when he returned to external consciousness. Now let us compare how Shrinivas was able to bring a tangible object from his divine meditation back with him upon "awakening," to what happened to the Catholic Saint, St. Agnes. "She lived in Italy, in the year 1268. She fasted for 15 years on bread and water and slept on the ground with a rock for a pillow. At the young age of 14, Agnes reached a high degree of contemplative prayer and was favored with many visions. One of the loveliest is the occasion of a visit from the Blessed Virgin. Our Lady came with the Holy Infant (Jesus) in her arms and She allowed Agnes to hold baby Jesus and caress Him. Unwilling to let the infant Jesus go, Agnes held on tightly when Our Lady Mary reached to take Her Son back. When Agnes woke from her ecstasy, Mary and Her Holy Child were gone, but Agnes was still clutching tightly the little gold cross that the infant Jesus had worn on a chain about His neck. She kept this as a precious treasure" (Taken from the book, "Saints who Raised the Dead" by Father Albert J. Herbert, Tan Books).
So here we have in these two accounts the same thing, a flower garland and a gold cross on a chain, both manifesting as tangible, from divine meditation. How cool is that! But, because I have studied both religions deeply, I want to say that their is a difference. The Catholics place a premium on acts of self-inflicted suffering to gain merit and virtues, whereas Lord Chaitanya placed all merit on joyfully chanting the Names of the Lord, which acts like an elevator and takes you right to the topmost pleasure, direct and loving association with Krishna. For the Catholics, they must navigate through Judgement, Purgatory, etc. Lord Chaitanya's gift of the Holy Name passes all that up like an elevator and is a better path. Having said that, still I can greatly admire all the Catholic Saints I have become familiar with. Their lives are equally breathtaking to discover. AGTSP
Hare Krishna HG Rohini Suta Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Religion without knowledge is sental mentalism. And knowledge without religion is speculation. The word religio means connection. And that connection should be between Supreme Soul and His eternal particle -soul.
But before becoming religious one should rise up to the stage of human being, isn't he?
And human being follows 4 regulative principles and chants 16 rounds of japa. It is the stage of a human being. So if Cathilic people follow this and serve to God than it is nice. But if for example, we massage one leg of father but beat another leg then it is not so intelligent, isn't it? In this way animals are children of God so killing them and trying to serve to God is like that massage making only.
God has many different types of servants. One part may be His wives, one part may be His cows, or another part His friends etc. In this way not everyone will to go to Goloka but to Vaikuntha planets.
As like in Murari Gupta's life. Lord Chaitanya told him to worship Krishna. So he tried but was not able to forget his Rama. and Lord was pleased with his firm faith into Lord Rama.
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Also in order to love someone we need to hear about his qualities, isn't it?!
Or else how to love someone whom we do not know?! If other religions are giving true explanation of God as Supreme Person with the knowledge coming from authorized parampara then it is great. But if they fail to do that then we have to find true religion.
i know You know all these things far far far better than me, and also know that You pasted this discussion so that we use our intelligence not because You do not know the answer.
Your servant,
re: Dear Bhaktin Maral, My comments I placed in all caps, after yours, only to help me reply to all your points. Simply that it helps us to see both our comments at once.
Religion without knowledge is sental mentalism. And knowledge without religion is speculation. The word religio means connection. And that connection should be between Supreme Soul and His eternal particle -soul....But before becoming religious one should rise up to the stage of human being, isn't he?....And human being follows 4 regulative principles and chants 16 rounds of japa. It is the stage of a human being. So if Cathilic people follow this and serve to God than it is nice. But if for example, we massage one leg of father but beat another leg then it is not so intelligent, isn't it? In this way animals are children of God so killing them and trying to serve to God is like that massage making only. YOUR ANALOGY HERE IS VERY GOOD. I HAD NEVER HEARD IT STATED BEFORE. THE MAJORITY OF EVERYDAY CATHOLICS DO EAT MEAT. YET, IF YOU STUDY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FAMOUS NUN, SOR MARIA DE JESUS DE AGREDA (SPAIN) SHE WAS A VEGETARIAN AND VERY AUSTERE. BETTER TO LOVE ALL OF GOD, INCLUDING HIS LESSER CREATURES.
God has many different types of servants. One part may be His wives, one part may be His cows, or another part His friends etc. In this way not everyone will to go to Goloka but to Vaikuntha planets. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT PLANETS AND WONDER IF THERE IS AN ENTIRE CHRISTIAN PLANET FOR THE SERVANTS OF CHRIST.
As like in Murari Gupta's life. Lord Chaitanya told him to worship Krishna. So he tried but was not able to forget his Rama. and Lord was pleased with his firm faith into Lord Rama. I, TOO, REMEMBER THIS STORY AND OFTEN REMEMBER AND USE IT TO MAKE THIS VERY POINT, AS SRILA PRABHUPA, HIMSELF USED IT TO EXPLAIN THAT GOD HAS MANY NAMES.
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Also in order to love someone we need to hear about his qualities, isn't it?! WELL, I HAVE READ ENOUGH CATHOLIC LITERATURE TO SAY THAT CATHOLICS HAVE PLENTY OF APPRECIATION FOR THE DIVINE QUALITIES OF GOD TO LOVE HIM. I RECENTLY READ "THE LIFE OF SAINT JOSEPH" THAT WAS WRITTEN BY DIVINE REVELATION BY THE ITALIAN NUN, MARIA CECILIA BAIJ (1713-1766) AFTER GOD TOLD HER TO PUT HER INSPIRED THOUGHT DOWN ON PAPER. THIS WONDERFUL BOOK IS FULL GOD'S QUALITIES; QUALITIES THAT BOTH JOSEPH AND MARY WERE ENDOWED WITH. SOR MARIA DE JESUS' BOOK, "THE MYSTICAL CITY OF GOD" WAS WRITTEN AROUND THE SAME TIME AS CECILIA'S BOOK AND ALTHOUGH I AM STILL READING IT, AGAIN THE WONDERFUL QUALITIES OF GOD ARE OVERFLOWING. A MORE MODERN BOOK, "THROUGH THE EYES OF JESUS" BY ALAN AMES, LEAVES YOU LOVING CHRIST AFTER YOU READ IT BECAUSE THE QUALITIES OF JESUS ARE SO NICELY PRESENTED. THIS WAS ALSO WRITTEN BY DIVINE REVELATION.
Or else how to love someone whom we do not know?! If other religions are giving true explanation of God as Supreme Person with the knowledge coming from authorized parampara then it is great. ONLY THIS LAST MONTH I WAS THINKING HOW THERE ARE TWO GREAT SAMPRADAYS - THE CHRISTIAN SAMPRADAYA AND THE GAUDIA SAMPRADAYA. JUST SOMETHING I WAS THINKING, COMPLETE WITH THEIR RESPECTIVE PARAMPARAS.
But if they fail to do that then we have to find true religion. I DO BELIEVE IN TRUE RELIGION. AND THAT IS TO LOVE GOD WITH ALL MY HEART, MIND AND SOUL.
i know You know all these things far far far better than me, and also know that You pasted this discussion so that we use our intelligence not because You do not know the answer. I HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME NOW. I HAVE TO LEAVE IN ONE HOUR AND NEED TO GET DRESSED. PERHAPS WE CAN CONTINUE LATER.
....Thank you so much for taking your time to reply to my discussion. By the way, I visited your page and was admiring the bead bag you made and your other pictures. There was one photo in particular, devotees dancing in a forest, that was especially wonderful. Yes, the government has called me to jury duty this morning and I now have to go. But I have a good book to read since there will be a lot of time just sitting and waiting. Jai Radhe, Rsd
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