Hare Krishna to All,
I am neither an advanced devotee nor do I understand that I am able to be Krishna's Friend. But I understand Krishna my Only Original Friend.Whenever I try to consider Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I feel I am loosing my Original Friend. Therefore I don't give it importance and even don't consider it that Krishna is the Supreme of Personality of Godhead. Here, I am using Original,this means the only one who is my true well-wisher, is not like all others in this selfish world where the foundation of all relations is Selfishness and temporariness. I strongly believe that Shri Bhagwan Vishnu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I am chanting 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mahamantra (Prabhupada says that whenever we chant Krishna's name, he is present with us). Can/Should I simultaneosuly worship Lord Shri Vishnu as The Supreme personality of Godhead?
Please don't give me quotations where krshna is described as the Source of Lord Vishnu and The supreme personality of Godhead beacause I don't give it importance. Krishna may be the Supreme personality of Godhead, but for me He is my original Friend only. I strongly believe that Shri Hari Vishnu is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead. Please help me in my confusion: "Can/Should I simultaneosuly worship Lord Shri Vishnu as The Supreme personality of Godhead?"
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सीतानाथ समारम्भां रामानन्दार्य मध्यमाम्।
अस्मदाचार्य पर्यन्तां वन्दे श्रीगुरू परम्पराम् ।।
Both Śrī Hari Narayan and Śrī Krishnā are the incarnation of the Perfect Supreme Personality of the GodHead Śrī Rāma.
Their is no difference between Avatar and Avatari as पूर्णमद: पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात् concept always apply. Like wise their is no difference between Śrī Rāma himself and his incarnations like Śrī Hari Narayan, Śrī Krishnā etc.
To think bigger and smaller is just a mere satisfaction of one's Ego and nothing else.
That's Śrī Rāma who incarnates himself as Vishnu;
(Śrī Vālmiki Rāmāyaṇa 7.104.9)
"After my prayers in the begining of the creation, Oh Rama ! You forsaken Your durdharsa (the swarupa which is difficult to be achieved for many) i.e. eternal Bhava (the eternal two armed Śrī Rāma form) and assumed the form of Vishnu for the sake of protection and sustenance of all the beings."
One thing I want to say here is that Śrī Ramayana is an incarnation of Vedas so it has the same Authority as Vedas;
As said;
(श्रीमद् वाल्मिकी रामायण-मङ्गलाचरण एवं अगस्त्य-संहिता)
जो दशरथ के पुत्र हैं वे ही वेदवेद्य अर्थात वेदों से जाने जाने वाले परम पुरुष हैं, उनके प्रकट होने पर वेद ही साक्षात् श्रीरामायण रुप में प्राचेतसश्रीवाल्मीकि मुनि के श्रीमुख से अवतीर्ण हुए। भगवान शिव स्वयं कहते हैं, हे देवी! श्रीरामायण स्वयं वेद ही है इसमें कोई संशय नहीं है।
Śrīmad Valmiki Ramayana is Veda itself as said in Valmiki Ramayan;
In Skandh Puran also;
(स्कन्द पुराण उ० ख० रा० मा०अ० ५-६४ )
In Mantra Ramayana aslo;
So Ramayana's authority (Śrīmad Valmiki Ramayana & Śrīmad Rāmcharit Manas, as Tuslidas ji maharaj is incarnation of Śrī Valmiki muni as mentioned in scriptures) is same is of Vedas.
Now, Back to point,
It's Śrī Rāma himself from whom Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesha gets incarnated.
(Śrīmad Ramcharit Manas, Balkand)
Meaning :- Many Lord Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu appear from the mere part of Śrī Rāma.
Same is mentioned in Skandh Puran uttarkhand in Narad Sanathkumar Dialogue;
अर्थ:~सम्पूर्ण जगत् के अभीष्ट मनोरथोंको सिद्ध करनेवाले, ब्रह्मा, विष्णु और महेश आदि देवता जिनके अभिन्न अंशमात्र हैं, उन परम विशुद्ध सच्चिदानन्दमय परमात्मदेव श्रीरामचन्द्रजीको मैं नमस्कार करता हूँ तथा उन्हींके भजन -चिन्तनमें मन लगाता हूँ।
Same in Bhardwaj Samhita;
(Śrī Bhardwaj Samhita)
Śrī Hari Narayana is an incarnation of Śrī Rāma and shines in Vaikunth in the form of conch, chakra, mace with Four Arms. There are many incarnations of Śrī Rāma differentiating by Kalas, part, Vibhuti etc. But Śrī Rāma himself is ParBrahma who is devoid of Maya in his two armed form (human form).
As Śrī Rāma himself says;
(श्रीमद्रामायणे वाल्मीकीये अद्भुतोत्तरकाण्डे भगवद्धनूमत्संवादो नाम चतुर्दशः सर्गः)
The Lord of the infinite worlds, who is inseparable Narayan, is my supreme form and maintains the universe.
As said in Śrīmad Kurm Puran;
(Śrīmad Kurm Puran)
मत्स्य, कूर्म, वाराह अतुल तेजमय श्रीनृसिंह तथा वामन, यामदग्नि परशुराम, भ्राता बलदेव जी के सहित कंश के शत्रु श्रीकृष्ण भगवान, करुणामय वपु बौद्ध, म्लेक्ष विध्वंसक श्रीकल्कि ये दश अवतार और अन्य भी जो अवतार में परिगणित है पृथु ऋषभादि ये सब सूर्यकुल में उत्पन्न जिस पर पुरुष के अन्शकला से उत्पन्न होते हैं, उस व्याप्त ब्रह्म तेज रूप विमल सुखमय श्रीरामचन्द्र महाराज को मैं नमस्कार करता हूँ।
Even Veda Narāyan saying same thing;
(इति पञ्चब्रह्मोपनिषत् यजुर्वेदीय श्रुति)
मैं अखंड आनंद के कारक भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों की वंदना करता हूं, जहां ब्रह्मा आदि समेत पांच ब्रह्म (श्रीशिव, श्रीहरि विष्णु, श्रीगणेश, भगवती दुर्गा और श्रीसूर्य) सदैव विश्राम (आश्रय) पाते हैं।
(यजुर्वेद श्रुति श्रीराम रहस्योपनिषद)
अर्थ:~
वेद आदि सभी शास्त्रों में परमतत्त्व ब्रह्मस्वरूप 'तारक राम' ही है। राम ही परमब्रह्म है। राम ही परमतप स्वरूप है। राम ही परमतत्त्व हैं। राम ही तारकब्रह्म हैं।
हनुमान जी ने श्रीहरि विष्णु के भक्त और अन्य ऋषियों को उपदेश दिया "मैं स्वयं, श्री गणेश, देवी सरस्वती, देवी दुर्गा, सभी क्षेत्र पाल, सूर्य, चंद्रमा ,भगवान श्रीहरि नारायण, भगवान नरसिंह, भगवान वासुदेव (श्री कृष्ण), भगवान वराह, आदि सभी जन भगवान श्रीराम के अंश हैं। लक्ष्मण, शत्रुघ्न, भरत, विभीषण, सुग्रीव, अंगद, जाम्बवंत और प्रणव (ॐ) भी भगवान श्रीराम के अंश मात्र हैं।
(Atharvaveda Shruti Krishnopanishad)
That Śrī Rāma, who transformed himself (incarnated) as Krishna, attained Sarvaatmakta (सार्वभौमिकता) by his very lila (divine exploits, pastimes); and thus deities-sages-masses were completely satisfied on this earth. I make prostration before that same Śrī Rāma.
(Brihad Brahma Samhita 2.7.8, Śrī Hari Narayan to Brahma)
The supreme cause of the four vyuhas, such as Vasudeva. Śrī Rāma, the shelter of the twenty-four avtars, is my refuge.
One thing has become clear from here that the same Supreme Soul who is called Śrī Rāma is established in all forms as said in Vedavataar Śrīmad Valmiki Rāmayana,
(Śrīmad Valmiki Rāmayana 7.119.32)
Śrī Rāma is the eternal akshar brahman mentioned in Vedas who is the innerself (heart) of all Gods.
(स्वयंवेद श्रीमद् वाल्मीकि रामायण ५.३९.५३)
"Who else is greater than Śrī Rāmā? and who else is equal to even Lakshmana? (means no one is greater than him)
(श्रीपद्मपुराण, पातालखण्ड ३५/५१ क )
No God is superior than Lord Rama; No penance has greater fruit than Lord Rama.
Only Lord Śrī Rāma is pervaded in all forms, that's why no one can be small or big. If you are down grading any form of Śrī Rāma, it means that you are down grading Śrī Rāma through them which will not be tolerated at all. The one with eight arms lord is also ours, the one with four arms lord is also ours, the one with two arms is also ours, the Jagannath with half arms is also ours and the one without arms i.e. Shaligram is also ours.
One thing to note here is that the Supreme Soul who pervades is the two armed has been called the root of all. Let's understand through Proofs;
(Narad Panchratra Śrī Padma Samhita)
Concluding meaning is that, In the Sun (the divine light/effulgence), there is the original primeval-form of Śrī Hari having one face and two hands with bow and arrow."
Same is their in Narad Panchratra Anand Samhita and Sundari Tantra;
(इति आनंद संहिता एवं सुंदरी तंत्र)
Wherever in the Vedas there has been a discussion of Parambrahma Paramatma, the word Dwibhuja has been used for them.
(Rig ved 10.81.3)
Here the word Bhāubhyam (बाहुभ्यां) has been used in Dwi-Vachan representing two armes.
Even in Purush Sukta of Vedas the sanskrit word used for arms has been used in Dwi-Vachan, (10 & 11th mantra)
So the Purush Sukta is exclusively dedicated to Śrī Rāma but as Śrī Hari Narayan and Śrī Krishnā are his incarnations so this applies to them as well as their is no difference between Avatar and Avatari.
Same like many Shloka are in Vedas which clearly speak up the same thing.
(Atharvaveda 13.2.23)
(Krishna Yajurved Shvetashvatara Upanishad 3.3)
(Shukla Yajurveda 17.19)
So from here it has been clear that the two armed form of God his Original Source of everything,
As Tulsidas Maharaj has written in Ramcharit Manas,
जो वेदों और पुराणों में पुरुष प्रसिद्ध हैं, प्रकाश के भंडार हैं, सब रूपों में प्रकट हैं, जीव, माया और जगत् सबके स्वामी हैं, वे ही रघुकुल मणि राम मेरे स्वामी हैं - ऐसा कहकर शिव ने उनको मस्तक नवाया।
That's why he has written;
In short, the whole universe (including Devi, Devata and Panch Brahma) are illuminated by the only one illuminator i.e. Śrī Rāma.
As Śrī Parashara Smriti clearly says;
(इति पराशर स्मृति वचने)
अर्थ- भगवान श्रीरामभद्र ही परंब्रह्म परमात्मा है, जो भी कुछ स्थूल और सूक्ष्म वस्तु है उनमें से कुछ भी श्रीराम से परे नहीं है इसीलिए ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शिव ये सभी तथा इंद्र, अग्नि, वरुण, यम, सूर्य, चंद्र, स्वर्ग, भूमि, आकाश, पवन, जल ये सब भगवान श्रीरामचंद्र के तेज से ही प्रतिष्ठित हुए हैं तथा भूत, भविष्य और वर्तमान ये तीनों काल तथा इन तीनों कालमें जो कुछ उत्पन्न होगा और उत्पन्न हुआ है, वो सब श्रीराम से ही उत्पन्न हुआ है।
So from here we can conclude that Śrī Rāma is alone Par Brahma who resides in the heart of all Gods.
As Tulsidas Maharaj has cleared in Śrīmad Rāmcharit Manas that;
Who so ever is big is bigger by the praise of Śrī Rāma.
As Valmiki Rāmayana says;
(Śrī Valmiki Rāmayana 5.39.53)
"Who else is greater than Śrī Rāmā? and who else is equal to even Lakshmana?
[Means Śrī Rāmā is free from anyone equal to or greater than him, and there is none equal to even Lakshmana.]"
Same is their in Śrīmad Bhagwat mahapurana;
(इति श्रीमद्भागवत पुराण ९.११.२०)
परीक्षित्! भगवान श्रीरघुवर के समान और कोई नहीं है, फिर उनसे बढ़कर तो हो ही कैसे सकता है। उन्होंने देवताओंकी प्रार्थनासे ही यह लीला-विग्रह धारण किया था। ऐसी स्थितिमें रघुवंश-शिरोमणि के लिये यह कोई बड़े गौरवकी बात नहीं है कि उन्होंने अस्त्र-शस्त्रोंसे राक्षसोंको मार डाला या समुद्रपर पुल बाँध दिया। भला, उन्हें शत्रुओंको मारनेके लिये बंदरोंकी सहायताकी भी आवश्यकता थी क्या? यह सब उनकी लीला ही है।
One thing should always be noted that anything which applies to Śrī Rāma will be applied to his incarnations too as their is no difference between Avatar and Avatari.
आनंद भाष्यकार श्रीमद जगद्गुरु रामानंदाचार्य भगवान की जय 🚩
भगवान श्रीलक्ष्मी नारायण की जय 🚩
वृंदावन बिहारी लाल संग राधारानी सरकार की जय 🚩
अवध दुलारे अवध दुलारी प्रिया प्रियतम सरकार की जय 🚩
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
This will clear your doubt and there are 3 Vishnu.
आदित्यानामहं विष्णुर्ज्योतिषां रविरंशुमान् ।
मरीचिर्मरुतामस्मि नक्षत्राणामहं शशी ॥ (२१)
मैं सभी आदित्यों में विष्णु हूँ, मैं सभी ज्योतियों में प्रकाशमान सूर्य हूँ, मैं सभी मरुतों में मरीचि नामक वायु हूँ, और मैं ही सभी नक्षत्रों में चंद्रमा हूँ। (२१)
Hari bol,
Radha Krishna servant
This is my experience & opinion. Chat properly the names of Ha'ray Krishna & Rama & your experience will bear the desiered fruits of self & God realization over time, this is the obstructions I received from the decipels of Srila Prahbupoda. I fallowed them & I'm glad I did! They are seemingly a bit exuberant & ecstatic for my tasts at time but I trust in the truth of their methods and processes thus far and have made good progress personally I can say honesty & leave it to you to sourt out your own approach, I feel the ISKCON 's prosess has deliverd GREAT progress to & for me. They never asked me to choose, indeed they revealed all my choices. & that's just what I wanted! Krishna has earned Hi's loving position within my heart over my real time experence with Him, but it certinly would not have happened with out the ShaktiPrama of Vishnu's (active) Loving compassion. So in my opinion they are both (required). All glory & Victory to the devotees of Iskcon & their eternal preceptor (HDG) keyJiah: )
There was a little boy who liked to drink water from his favorite glass, but mother bring him ones the water in another glass, and the boy rejected it by saying:
''Mother, I know that the same water reside in both glasses, but I like the water only from my favorite glass.''
Mother replied by taking water away,:
'' If you were truly thirsty, you would drink the water with the great pleasure even from the dirty flor .''
.
.
Krishna and Vishnu are non different. Vishnu is Krishna in office. They are the same person. Vishnu form is worshipped more with reverence and Krishna form with love.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Answer is yes and no. See, you are taking a ticket to go to the spiritual world, where you will land up will depend on your bhaav and the lord's mercy. By doing both, that is, considering Krsna to be your only friend and worshipping Krsna in the form of Vishnu, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you are trying to take 2 tickets. Your bhaav is getting confused.
Now to put the record straight, the stage of devotion we are in right now, we are not aware of our mood, our bhaav. We come to know of it only in advanced stage.
My point is, since you have a strong feeling of friendship with Krsna, why do you need to pray to the SUpreme Personality of Godhead at all? As long as you are chanting the mahamantra and following the 4 regulative principles, its fine.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
You asked " why do you need to pray to the SUpreme Personality of Godhead at all?". Because I want to achieve the ideal level of friendship by not asking for anything for myself and only serving krishna with everything. And I have strong attraction for Lord Vishnu as the supreme lord and the Supreme Father. Whenever there is any problem I goto Him.