BOTH SHIVA AND VISHNU ARE SAME ?

“There are two mahaa-phala daayaka Vrukshas. One by the name Vaasudeva and the other by the name Vaamadeva. They differ only in their sumas (flowers) (‘su’ is replaced by ‘ma’ in their names), but both give the same phalas (fruits, which is moksham)”. It is also often said, “How much one does not see the difference between Shiva and Vishnu, that much his aayu will increase”.

One day, when Lakshmi and Vishnu were together in vihaaram, Lakshmi sees Ucchaishravam, her brother, the horse of Revanta who is the son of Surya. Engrossed in seeing her brother, she does not reply to the repeated calls of Vishnu. Seeing her attraction, Vishnu gives her shaapam to go to Bhulokam in the form of a horse and come back to Vaikuntam only after getting a son equal to Himself! She comes to Bhuloka to experience the shaapam and realizing that none other than her brother, Shiva can help her calm Vishnu, she immediately does a tapas for Him and Shiva appears to save her soodari. Lakshmi says “You and Vishnu are both same, the Paramaatma. Please help me!”. Shiva says “Soodari! How do you know that we both are same? All learned people know that. Who told you?”. Lakshmi says, “Once Mahavishnu Himself told me this. Seeing Him in deep Daiva-dhyaanam, I asked Him “During Samudramanthanam, I thought you were the greatest of all and hence chose you. Devaadideva! Who is better than you that you are in dhyaanam of Him?”. Mahavishnu replied “I am doing Shankara-dhyaanam. He is Eshwara. He is the same as Me. All learned people know that. If someone is my devotee but still hates Shiva, he will fall into naraka”.

Saying this, She asks Shiva to pursuade Vishnu to bless Her with a child. Shiva sends Chitrarupa as a duta to convince Vishnu. Vishnu immediately accepts and comes to Bhuloka and blesses Lakshmi with Ekaveera, who is equal to Vishnu Himself. From Ekaveera came forth the Haihaya dynasty, of which the most noted king is Kartavirya Arjuna (Ekaveera’s grandson).

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Once when Naarada, the avatar of Vishnu, recited prayers glorifying Lord Shiva as the supreme controller of the universe, Lord Shiva, the best of Vaishnavas, at once covered his ears and angrily replied, “I am not the Lord of the universe, nor an object of Krishna’s mercy! I am just a poor aatma always hankering for the favor of the servants of His servants.” (Thus in this small story, Naarada, avataar of Vishnu, glorifies Shiva as the Paramaatma and Shiva glorifies Vishnu as the Paramaatma!)

(See this picture)

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The story of Hanuman, who is the 11th avataar of Shiva and Raama, the purna avataar of Vishnu also reveals the same. Both of them acheived great tasks:

  1. Restricting the great samudram, Raama along with His entire army crossed the satpa-samudras! Hanuman, in one small jump, crossed it!
  2. In the greatest, unparalleled ghora-yuddham, which was never seen before or will ever be seen, Raama killed Raavana! Hanuman killed Mairaavana, who was many times stronger than Raavana, with great ease!
  3. Krishna lifted Govardhana giri, balanced on his little finger and saved the lives of Gopaalas! Hanuman brought the Sanjeevani Parvatam from Himaalayas to Lanka and saved Lakshmana!
  4. Raama melted a stone, with the touch of His lotus feet, for Ahalya! Hanuman melted a stone with His sweet Gandharva gaanam!

Though they did great tasks like this, always Hanuman worshipped Raama, with great Vinayam. And Raama worshipped Shiva with unparalleled devotion. (If one closely observes, for Paramaatma these tasks are not at all difficult/big. For He does everything right from Shrushti to Layam. And He only resides in everyone and gives life. However, since we cannot even imagine His power, we praise Him for these “small” tasks only )

(see this picture)

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Impressed by the great tapas of Viṣhṇu for Paramaśiva, Śiva gave Viṣhṇu the Sudarshana Cakram.

(SEE THIS IMAGE)

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Annamaacharya, the great Vaak-geya-kaaraka of Aandhra Pradesh, in one of his divya sankeertana “Enta maatramuna evvaru talichina ….” says:

How much ever one imagines that much only are You:

  • For Vaishnavas You are Vishnu
  • For Vedaantas You are Parabrahma
  • For Shaivas and other bhaktas You are Shiva
  • For Kaapaalikas You are Kaala-Bhairava
  • For Shaakteyaas You are Shakti
  • For people with alpa-buddhi You appear as alpam
  • For people who know Your Garima and have Ghana-buddhi You are a Ghana
  • For people who are Sharanaagati You are Venkateshvara

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Once Shri Krishna, the avataar of Mahaavishnu, came to Upamanyu maharshi, when he was at Himaalayas. Shri Krishna said “Upamanyu muniindra! You are the greatest in the Shiva Bhaktas. I came here to do Tapas of Paramashiva to get santaanam. Please teach Me Shaiva-vidhi and vidhaanam”.

Upamanyu replied “O Shri Krishna! I know who You are. Shiva puuja is not new to You. Though You know it, to make everybody know, I will tell You …” Saying thus, Upamanyu told Shri Krishna how to do Shiva-aaraadhana.

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This happened after the episode of Naarada, coming under Vishnu maaya, gives shaapam to Vishnu: (This is one of the reasons of Shri Raama avatar)
Naarada says “Svaami! Please forgive Me. I, coming under influence of Your maaya, got ahankaar and did Your ninda. Please tell Me what can save Me from this ghora-paapam”. Vishnu says:

“O Priya Naarada! You go and do paaraayana of Shankara Shatanaamams. Then You will get Shaanti. Shiva is whom I respect the most. Even by mistake dont forget this. One who doesnt have Shiva-anugraham cannot be My Bhakta. Believe this … Then My maaya wont affect you.”

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Once Vyaasa Bhagavaan came under the influence of Shiva-maaya and started telling in his Pravachanams that Vishnu is greater than Shiva. Once Nandeeshvara also heard Vyaasa Bhagavaan saying this. Vishnu Murty then appeared before Veda Vyaasa and told Him “O Maharshi! Dont you know that I and Shiva are the same? Knowing this why are you telling like this in your pravachanams?” Veda Vyaasa then had great pashchaattaapam and asked Kshama from Nandeeshvara.

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The phalam of Vishnu Pooja is Shiva Bhakti — the example is that of Arjuna. Arjuna ofcourse was the greatest Shri Krishna Bhakta. But it was Shiva who gave Arjuna moksham, when Arjuna was born as Bhakta Kannappa, in the great Kaalahastsi Kshetram.

Similarly the phalam of Shiva Pooja is Shri Raama Bhakti — the examples are stories of Kaaka Bhushundi and Valmiki Maharshi. Kaaka Bhushundi was a great Shiva Bhakta and hence Shiva grants him Raama Bhakti Saamraajyam. Valmiki did tapas for Shiva using the Panchaakshari mantram given to him by the great Saptarshis and as a result became the Aadi Kavi and wrote the great Raamaayanam.

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Raasaleela. It was the day when the “punya-vruksham” of Gopikas delivered its ripe fruits, called Moksham. It was the day when the Aaraadhana of Gopikas was blessed by Lord Krishna. Gopikas realized Shri Krishna, the Sarvaantaryaami, everywhere. As a result of their Aaraadhana-bhakti they realized the paramaatma’s poorna-svaroopam with each one of them. Who could miss watching the Raasaleela, where the Lord showered His Karuna-jyotsna ? All the Brahma-aadi devatas were present.

Parama Shiva, the greatest bhakta of Shri Krishna, was also present in the form of a Gopika. Shri Krishna, who is always in nirantara-shiva-dhyaanam, searched for Parameshvara. Finally He realized that Shiva is none other than one of the Gopikas having sampoorna aanandam of dancing with Him. Shri Krishna paramaatma then does stuti of Eshvara and asks to bless them by staying there at Vrundaavanam by the name of Gopeeshvara.

Even today we can visit Lord Shiva, in the form of Gopeeshvara, at Vrundaavanam.

—Contributed by ShobhitKaushik

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THIRUTHANGAL
“Thiruthangal Uuranai”- Thirumangai aazhwar mangalasanam.
Banasuran was a great devotee of Lord Shiva. He once prayed to Shiva to bestow him with thousand arms so that he can play the mrudangam during his rudrathandavam. Shiva too did so. But instead of playing the instrument with his thousand arms he started fighting battles against one and all. Instigated by this malicious act Shiva said “ A person equal to me shall severe your thousand hands.” Usha was the daughter of Banasura. She once saw in a dream that a young prince played with her. She immediately wanted to know who he was. Chitralekha started drawing hundreds of pictures which did not yield the expected result. She then drew the pictures of Yadava rulers like Balarama, Krishna, Pradyumna and Anrudha. As soon as she sketched the picture of Anirudha Usha was only too excited. “It is he, It is he”- she exclaimed. Chitralekha being a yogini atonce brought Anirudha to her chamber even as he was sleeping atop his house. They then played there for a long time. Some spy who oversaw all this complained to Banasura who arrested Anirudha for no fault of his. Lord Krishna fought a tough battle. Banasura sought the refuge of Shiva who faught on his side. Lord Krishna severed all of Banasura’s hands except four. Krishna then told Shiva “ Iam you and you are me. Those who show hatred against me or you though a devotee of either shall attain hell. I as Brahma create, as Rudra destroy and as Vishnu protect. Your devotee is mine and my devotee is yours.I shall not kill Banasura, he being a descendent of Prahlada.” Thus Banasura was consoled and Anirudha was married to Usha. Rudra showed false anger at Banasura and asked him never to join his bhutaganas. A repenting Banasura asked for parihara when he said that a dip in the holy waters of Papavinashini teertha at Thiruthangal will cleanse him of his sin. Banasura did so and rejoined Rudragana. Thus those who visit this kshetra will beget their lost status and also beget a good groom. Victory be to him who visits this kshetra.

—- Contributed by Karthik Raman, from Shri Hariji’s blog

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Morals in the Story:

  1. Shiva and Vishnu are the same.
  2. Both Raama and Hanuman did such super-human tasks, but they were never having even a bit of Ahankaar. They always were humble (see Setu-bandhanam story).

 

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  • I think vaishnavas here call themselves dasanudasanudas.....is it for name sake.....If shiva is Vishnu das then by the above term you are also Shiva das.....guys please come over this arguments and on the Auspiscious occassion of Mahashivratri ask lord shiva to increase our Hari bhakti.....he will most happy to give u hari bhakti......cant u all so called gyani vaishnavas see that u are indirectly hurting Supreme one by a baseless arguement?? Krishna is more hurt when it comes to disrespect towards His devotees even if they are Shivadasas.......(dasanudas concept) Guys u all need to chant more and be happy rather than satisfying ur ego's that am a Shaivite, am a vaishnavite....the main bada concept.....I feel we are deviating frm the right path.....chant!!! Hare Krishna!!!
  • Hare Krishna Mataji !!! 

    PAMHO !!!

    What u r speaking is correct.I believe you .Can you please quote the references in Shashtras of these stories,if you have any.Because I doubt the stories are misquoted...

  • Volunteer

    Hare Krishna, prabhuji!!! You are absolutely right. We must respect everyone, but at the same time our special focus must be on Godhead Krishna, who is worshipped even by demigods. As, Krishna confirms in Bhagavad Gita-

    mattaḥ parataraḿ nānyat

    kiñcid asti dhanañjaya

    mayi sarvam idaḿ protaḿ

    sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva

    TRANSLATION

    O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.

    PURPORT

    There is a common controversy over whether the Supreme Absolute Truth is personal or impersonal. As far as Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, the Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and this is confirmed in every step. In this verse, in particular, it is stressed that the Absolute Truth is a person. That the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Absolute Truth is also the affirmation of the Brahma-saḿhitāīśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ; that is, the Supreme Absolute Truth Personality of Godhead is Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is the primeval Lord, the reservoir of all pleasure, Govinda, and the eternal form of complete bliss and knowledge. These authorities leave no doubt that the Absolute Truth is the Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. The impersonalist, however, argues on the strength of the Vedic version given in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (3.10): tato yad uttarataraḿ tad arūpam anāmayamya etad vidur amṛtās te bhavanti athetare duḥkhamevāpiyanti. "In the material world Brahmā, the primeval living entity within the universe, is understood to be the supreme amongst the demigods, human beings and lower animals. But beyond Brahmā there is the Transcendence, who has no material form and is free from all material contaminations. Anyone who can know Him also becomes transcendental, but those who do not know Him suffer the miseries of the material world."

    The impersonalist puts more stress on the word arūpam. But this arūpam is not impersonal. It indicates the transcendental form of eternity, bliss and knowledge as described in the Brahma-saḿhitā quoted above. Other verses in the ŚvetāśvataraUpaniṣad (3.8-9) substantiate this as follows:

    vedāham etaḿ puruṣaḿ mahāntam

    āditya-varṇaḿ tamasaḥ parastāt

    tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti

    nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya

    yasmāt paraḿ nāparam asti kiñcid

    yasmān nāṇīyo no jyāyo 'sti kiñcit

    vṛkṣa iva stabdho divi tiṣṭhaty ekas

    tenedaḿ pūrṇaḿ puruṣeṇa sarvam

    "I know that Supreme Personality of Godhead who is transcendental to all material conceptions of darkness. Only he who knows Him can transcend the bonds of birth and death. There is no way for liberation other than this knowledge of that Supreme Person.

    "There is no truth superior to that Supreme Person, because He is the supermost. He is smaller than the smallest, and He is greater than the greatest. He is situated as a silent tree, and He illumines the transcendental sky, and as a tree spreads its roots, He spreads His extensive energies."

    From these verses one concludes that the Supreme Absolute Truth is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-pervading by His multi-energies, both material and spiritual.

    A wife respects her husband's friends and relatives but loves her husband solely. We are all prakriti, wives of Krishna. Hence it's our duty to render service solely to the Supreme Purush.

  • Volunteer
    1. Restricting the great samudram, Raama along with His entire army crossed the satpa-samudras! Hanuman, in one small jump, crossed it!
    2. In the greatest, unparalleled ghora-yuddham, which was never seen before or will ever be seen, Raama killed Raavana! Hanuman killed Mairaavana, who was many times stronger than Raavana, with great ease!
    3. Krishna lifted Govardhana giri, balanced on his little finger and saved the lives of Gopaalas! Hanuman brought the Sanjeevani Parvatam from Himaalayas to Lanka and saved Lakshmana!
    4. Raama melted a stone, with the touch of His lotus feet, for Ahalya! Hanuman melted a stone with His sweet Gandharva gaanam!- Have you gone through the Ramcharita manas ?! Lord Hanuman tells, 'bhakti hi shakti.'( Devotion is power)/ Every time he used to chant 'Jai Shri Ram'. He said, 'The holy Name of Ram gives me power'. Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, 'When you see something majestic, know that it's just a fraction of My opulence'. Hanuman's strength can't be equated with that of Ram. Lord Ram is the independent personality of Godhead who often blesses His devotees with certain mystic power. But He is always the worshippable superior, full of six opulences. No one can surpass Him. Here is another instance that proves that Lord Ram is supreme. The monkeys, while constructing the bridge to Lanka wrote the name of Ram on stones and the stones would then float. But  Lord Ram took a stone and threw it into the sea which sank. All were surprised. But Hanuman gave the answer- Since it was Lord's will that the stone should sink, it sank. The Lord was satisfied by this answer. Then  the stone again surfaced. It was again the Lord's will that the stone should surface.

    • prabhu ji but the problem is dat dat Shri Ram was never ever egoistic .... n never dominated people to worship ... like d way you r explaining the facts... the only question in my mind is "ARE WE INTELLIGENT ENGOUGH TO JUDGE GOD'S POWER? LIKE THE WAY THE CRITISM IS GOINING ON?" can't we just respect dm d way dey are? loving lord krishna doesn't wants first,second or thirds postions... we sud love d way he is.. the lord all mighty , the one behind everyone's progress....  we r no one to judge nyone.... whethr d demigods r strong or not we sud respect dm also... as krishna never said dat don't respect dm.... or i vl be upset 4m my devotees.........

  • Hare Krishna !! my humble pranAms to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas !!

    /**

    Shiva earlier had a tilak of A Vaishnav , later he changed it on instruction of Vishnu ,

    Because demon were behaving like Vaishnav , but they were not , so sudarshan did not killed them ,

    Seeing this Vishnu instructed to Shiva to have a demonic kind of Make up so that demons worship you ,

    He instructed to declare yourself higher then me ,and hide my identity , so that only pure soul reach me !!

    **/

    Is it not good when demons behave like Vaishnavas as the objective is to transform oneself to be a devotee of Vishnu (like prahlada)?

    Why should Shri Vishnu not wish demons to become Vaishnavas and give such an order to Lord Siva to perform acts to delude demons and not allow them to worship Vishnu. Did he wish to thus prolong enmity between the Devas and Asuras so that Devas win and Asuras remain defeated?

    Isn't the ultimate purpose of all jivas is to realize Krishna-Vishnu irrespective of what kind of original creatures they are - Devas, Danavas, Yakshas etc.?

    Please enlighten us prabhujis and Matajis..

    In loving service to Bhagavan and Bhagavatas,

    Suresh

    • Sevak

      Prabhu Ji, please read the first relply I made on this discussion. There lies the answer to your question.

      Hari Bol! 

  • Respected all prabhu jis and matajis............. got your points......... no need to argue ... a peaceful disscussion and one doubtful question sud be answered vd love and patients .. not like using the words "mayawadi" and "demoniac" ......... dese words don't show humbleness and it doesn't suit people in KC...

    sorry if made wrong statement ...

    HARI BOL

    • Hare Krishna !! my humble pranAms to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas !

      Prabhujis and Matajis, I've noticed many devotees using the word 'mayavadi' and 'demonaic' in a tone of hatred to refer to Advaitins or non-vaishnavas. There seems to be a confusion in my opinion.

      Mayavadi philosophy basically means assuming the power of 'Maya' to separate one from the supreme divinity. When knowledge emerges to wipe out ignorance, then 'maya' removes and a living entity becomes one with the supreme brahman. However, Vaishnavic philosophies consider 'maya' being a powerful potency of Krishna, the Supreme, to delude jivas in the material world until devotion leads to realization of eternal service relationship with Godhead and remain never to be captured again by 'Maya'. However, 'mayavadi' necessarily doesn't mean that the person holding a concept is a rascal. Whether, a person is a rascal is determined by one's behaviour or character.

      It is also inappropriate to consider a 'mayavadi' person to be demoniac. It is Kali purusha and the 10 places of offence that is demoniac as the purpose of Kali purusha is to spread adharma.

      In Kali Yuga, aspects of Devas and Asuras, exist in humanbeings and Kali purusha influences people to display demonic qualities. Only devotion to the Supreme can save one from Kali purusha - may it be devotion to the Supreme Krishna or devotion to other gods.

      Hari Om !!

      In service to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas,

      Suresh

  • Hare Krishna !! my pranAms to Bhagawan and Bhagawatas !!

    Maharshi Ved-Vyas (Krishna-Dwaipayana) came from the line of Sage Parasara and his ancestors were devotees of Sri Vishnu and great devotees themselves. Srila Ved-Vyasa in all his puranas refer to Krishna or Vishnu as Bhagawan and other gods by their respective names. We should strive to be devotees like them and glorify Bhagawan Krishna.

    Hari Om !!

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