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“There are two mahaa-phala daayaka Vrukshas. One by the name Vaasudeva and the other by the name Vaamadeva. They differ only in their sumas (flowers) (‘su’ is replaced by ‘ma’ in their names), but both give the same phalas (fruits, which is moksham)”. It is also often said, “How much one does not see the difference between Shiva and Vishnu, that much his aayu will increase”.

One day, when Lakshmi and Vishnu were together in vihaaram, Lakshmi sees Ucchaishravam, her brother, the horse of Revanta who is the son of Surya. Engrossed in seeing her brother, she does not reply to the repeated calls of Vishnu. Seeing her attraction, Vishnu gives her shaapam to go to Bhulokam in the form of a horse and come back to Vaikuntam only after getting a son equal to Himself! She comes to Bhuloka to experience the shaapam and realizing that none other than her brother, Shiva can help her calm Vishnu, she immediately does a tapas for Him and Shiva appears to save her soodari. Lakshmi says “You and Vishnu are both same, the Paramaatma. Please help me!”. Shiva says “Soodari! How do you know that we both are same? All learned people know that. Who told you?”. Lakshmi says, “Once Mahavishnu Himself told me this. Seeing Him in deep Daiva-dhyaanam, I asked Him “During Samudramanthanam, I thought you were the greatest of all and hence chose you. Devaadideva! Who is better than you that you are in dhyaanam of Him?”. Mahavishnu replied “I am doing Shankara-dhyaanam. He is Eshwara. He is the same as Me. All learned people know that. If someone is my devotee but still hates Shiva, he will fall into naraka”.

Saying this, She asks Shiva to pursuade Vishnu to bless Her with a child. Shiva sends Chitrarupa as a duta to convince Vishnu. Vishnu immediately accepts and comes to Bhuloka and blesses Lakshmi with Ekaveera, who is equal to Vishnu Himself. From Ekaveera came forth the Haihaya dynasty, of which the most noted king is Kartavirya Arjuna (Ekaveera’s grandson).

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Once when Naarada, the avatar of Vishnu, recited prayers glorifying Lord Shiva as the supreme controller of the universe, Lord Shiva, the best of Vaishnavas, at once covered his ears and angrily replied, “I am not the Lord of the universe, nor an object of Krishna’s mercy! I am just a poor aatma always hankering for the favor of the servants of His servants.” (Thus in this small story, Naarada, avataar of Vishnu, glorifies Shiva as the Paramaatma and Shiva glorifies Vishnu as the Paramaatma!)

(See this picture)

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The story of Hanuman, who is the 11th avataar of Shiva and Raama, the purna avataar of Vishnu also reveals the same. Both of them acheived great tasks:

  1. Restricting the great samudram, Raama along with His entire army crossed the satpa-samudras! Hanuman, in one small jump, crossed it!
  2. In the greatest, unparalleled ghora-yuddham, which was never seen before or will ever be seen, Raama killed Raavana! Hanuman killed Mairaavana, who was many times stronger than Raavana, with great ease!
  3. Krishna lifted Govardhana giri, balanced on his little finger and saved the lives of Gopaalas! Hanuman brought the Sanjeevani Parvatam from Himaalayas to Lanka and saved Lakshmana!
  4. Raama melted a stone, with the touch of His lotus feet, for Ahalya! Hanuman melted a stone with His sweet Gandharva gaanam!

Though they did great tasks like this, always Hanuman worshipped Raama, with great Vinayam. And Raama worshipped Shiva with unparalleled devotion. (If one closely observes, for Paramaatma these tasks are not at all difficult/big. For He does everything right from Shrushti to Layam. And He only resides in everyone and gives life. However, since we cannot even imagine His power, we praise Him for these “small” tasks only )

(see this picture)

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Impressed by the great tapas of Viṣhṇu for Paramaśiva, Śiva gave Viṣhṇu the Sudarshana Cakram.

(SEE THIS IMAGE)

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Annamaacharya, the great Vaak-geya-kaaraka of Aandhra Pradesh, in one of his divya sankeertana “Enta maatramuna evvaru talichina ….” says:

How much ever one imagines that much only are You:

  • For Vaishnavas You are Vishnu
  • For Vedaantas You are Parabrahma
  • For Shaivas and other bhaktas You are Shiva
  • For Kaapaalikas You are Kaala-Bhairava
  • For Shaakteyaas You are Shakti
  • For people with alpa-buddhi You appear as alpam
  • For people who know Your Garima and have Ghana-buddhi You are a Ghana
  • For people who are Sharanaagati You are Venkateshvara

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Once Shri Krishna, the avataar of Mahaavishnu, came to Upamanyu maharshi, when he was at Himaalayas. Shri Krishna said “Upamanyu muniindra! You are the greatest in the Shiva Bhaktas. I came here to do Tapas of Paramashiva to get santaanam. Please teach Me Shaiva-vidhi and vidhaanam”.

Upamanyu replied “O Shri Krishna! I know who You are. Shiva puuja is not new to You. Though You know it, to make everybody know, I will tell You …” Saying thus, Upamanyu told Shri Krishna how to do Shiva-aaraadhana.

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This happened after the episode of Naarada, coming under Vishnu maaya, gives shaapam to Vishnu: (This is one of the reasons of Shri Raama avatar)
Naarada says “Svaami! Please forgive Me. I, coming under influence of Your maaya, got ahankaar and did Your ninda. Please tell Me what can save Me from this ghora-paapam”. Vishnu says:

“O Priya Naarada! You go and do paaraayana of Shankara Shatanaamams. Then You will get Shaanti. Shiva is whom I respect the most. Even by mistake dont forget this. One who doesnt have Shiva-anugraham cannot be My Bhakta. Believe this … Then My maaya wont affect you.”

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Once Vyaasa Bhagavaan came under the influence of Shiva-maaya and started telling in his Pravachanams that Vishnu is greater than Shiva. Once Nandeeshvara also heard Vyaasa Bhagavaan saying this. Vishnu Murty then appeared before Veda Vyaasa and told Him “O Maharshi! Dont you know that I and Shiva are the same? Knowing this why are you telling like this in your pravachanams?” Veda Vyaasa then had great pashchaattaapam and asked Kshama from Nandeeshvara.

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The phalam of Vishnu Pooja is Shiva Bhakti — the example is that of Arjuna. Arjuna ofcourse was the greatest Shri Krishna Bhakta. But it was Shiva who gave Arjuna moksham, when Arjuna was born as Bhakta Kannappa, in the great Kaalahastsi Kshetram.

Similarly the phalam of Shiva Pooja is Shri Raama Bhakti — the examples are stories of Kaaka Bhushundi and Valmiki Maharshi. Kaaka Bhushundi was a great Shiva Bhakta and hence Shiva grants him Raama Bhakti Saamraajyam. Valmiki did tapas for Shiva using the Panchaakshari mantram given to him by the great Saptarshis and as a result became the Aadi Kavi and wrote the great Raamaayanam.

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Raasaleela. It was the day when the “punya-vruksham” of Gopikas delivered its ripe fruits, called Moksham. It was the day when the Aaraadhana of Gopikas was blessed by Lord Krishna. Gopikas realized Shri Krishna, the Sarvaantaryaami, everywhere. As a result of their Aaraadhana-bhakti they realized the paramaatma’s poorna-svaroopam with each one of them. Who could miss watching the Raasaleela, where the Lord showered His Karuna-jyotsna ? All the Brahma-aadi devatas were present.

Parama Shiva, the greatest bhakta of Shri Krishna, was also present in the form of a Gopika. Shri Krishna, who is always in nirantara-shiva-dhyaanam, searched for Parameshvara. Finally He realized that Shiva is none other than one of the Gopikas having sampoorna aanandam of dancing with Him. Shri Krishna paramaatma then does stuti of Eshvara and asks to bless them by staying there at Vrundaavanam by the name of Gopeeshvara.

Even today we can visit Lord Shiva, in the form of Gopeeshvara, at Vrundaavanam.

—Contributed by ShobhitKaushik

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THIRUTHANGAL
“Thiruthangal Uuranai”- Thirumangai aazhwar mangalasanam.
Banasuran was a great devotee of Lord Shiva. He once prayed to Shiva to bestow him with thousand arms so that he can play the mrudangam during his rudrathandavam. Shiva too did so. But instead of playing the instrument with his thousand arms he started fighting battles against one and all. Instigated by this malicious act Shiva said “ A person equal to me shall severe your thousand hands.” Usha was the daughter of Banasura. She once saw in a dream that a young prince played with her. She immediately wanted to know who he was. Chitralekha started drawing hundreds of pictures which did not yield the expected result. She then drew the pictures of Yadava rulers like Balarama, Krishna, Pradyumna and Anrudha. As soon as she sketched the picture of Anirudha Usha was only too excited. “It is he, It is he”- she exclaimed. Chitralekha being a yogini atonce brought Anirudha to her chamber even as he was sleeping atop his house. They then played there for a long time. Some spy who oversaw all this complained to Banasura who arrested Anirudha for no fault of his. Lord Krishna fought a tough battle. Banasura sought the refuge of Shiva who faught on his side. Lord Krishna severed all of Banasura’s hands except four. Krishna then told Shiva “ Iam you and you are me. Those who show hatred against me or you though a devotee of either shall attain hell. I as Brahma create, as Rudra destroy and as Vishnu protect. Your devotee is mine and my devotee is yours.I shall not kill Banasura, he being a descendent of Prahlada.” Thus Banasura was consoled and Anirudha was married to Usha. Rudra showed false anger at Banasura and asked him never to join his bhutaganas. A repenting Banasura asked for parihara when he said that a dip in the holy waters of Papavinashini teertha at Thiruthangal will cleanse him of his sin. Banasura did so and rejoined Rudragana. Thus those who visit this kshetra will beget their lost status and also beget a good groom. Victory be to him who visits this kshetra.

—- Contributed by Karthik Raman, from Shri Hariji’s blog

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Morals in the Story:

  1. Shiva and Vishnu are the same.
  2. Both Raama and Hanuman did such super-human tasks, but they were never having even a bit of Ahankaar. They always were humble (see Setu-bandhanam story).

 

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Hare Krishna. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Adapted from Shri Padma Purana,
Uttara Khanda Chapters 235-236.


Parvati Said, "O Lord Shiva, You once told me that one should avoid speaking with Pasandi atheistic demon,and that doing so is worse then talking to candalas outcastes. Please tell me of what are the symptoms of such persons and what signs do they wear on their bodies?"

Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorance,describe any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis. Those brahmanas who are devoid of the marks and symbols dear to Vishnu, such as conches, discs,and vertical-lined tilaka worn on the forehead, are said to be pasandis. That brahman who does not follow the practices given in the sastra should be known as a pasandi and should be condemned by all people. Those who have no devotion for the Lord are said to be pasandi. One who behaves as he likes and offers oblations in to the fire for the worship of deities other than Lord Vishnu should be known as a pasandi, for Lord Vishnu is the enjoyer of fruit of all sacrifices and is the deity of brahmanas. He who considers Lord Vishnu as equal to other deities such as Brahma and myself, Rudra,should always be called a pasandi. That brahmana, who with his speech, body,and deeds dose not recognize Vishnu,is a pasandi. What is the use of saying much in this regard? Those brahmanas who are not devotees of Vishnu should never be asked any questions, should never be talked to,and should never be seen,"

Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, decorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."

Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behavior. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.

"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conquer these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"

Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.

"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.

"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"

Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instruction, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."

"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'

indivar-dala-syamam padma-patra-vilocanam
sankhanga-sarngesu-dharam sarvabharana-bhusitam

pita-vastram catur-bahum janaki-priya-vallabham
shri-ramaya nama ity evam uccaryam mantram-uttamam

sarva-duhkha haram caitat papinam api mukti-dam
imam mantram japan nityam amalas tvam bhavisyasi

I offer my obeisances to Him, dark like the petal of a blue lotus, with lotus-petal eyes, holding a conch, a disc, and sarnga bow, adorned with all ornaments, wearing yellow ornements, having four arms, and who is the dear lord of Janaki, Sita-devi.The divine mantra, 'shri-ramaya namah,' should be chanted. It remones all lamentation and gives salvation to even sinners. One who regularly chants this mantra will be free from all contamination.[6.235.44-46]

"'All of the sinful rections due to wearing ashes and bones will all be destroyed and everthing will beacome auspicious due to reciting My mantra. O best of the gods, being pleased I shall destroy all sin. By My blessings, devotion to no other god than Me will arise. In your heart, worship Me who is the Supreme Being. Obey My order. Due to love for Me, everything will be auspicious for you. 'Having thus ordered Me, O goddess, He dismissed the hosts of gods who then returned to their own abodes. The gods led by Indra then requested me, 'O Mahadev, Shiva, Quickly perform those beneficial acts as instructed by Lord Vishnu.'"

Mahadeva then said to goddess Parvati, "O auspicious one, for the good of the gods I took to the way of the pasandis and started wearing skulls, hides, ashes, and bones. O auspicious one, as instructed by Lord Vishnu, I distributed the tamasic puranas and the pasandi Shiva doctrines. O sinless one, by entering Gautama and other brahmanas with my potency I proclaimed texts outside the Vedic fold. Adopting the system I gave, all of the wicked demons became averse to Lord Vishnu, and were enveloped in ignorance. Applying ashes to their bodies and performing severe penance, they stopped worship of Lord Vishnu and worshiped only me with flesh, blood and sandalwood.

"Receiving boons from me, they became intoxicated with power and pride. They were very much attached to the object of the senses, and were full of lust and anger. In that condition, devoid of goodness, they were defeated by the devas. Bereft of righteous paths, those who resort to this doctrine of mine alway go to hell.

"O goddess, thus this behavior of mine is only followed by me for the good of the gods. Following Lord Vishnu's order, I decorate myself with ashes and bones. O goddess, these external marks are meant only for deluding the demons. In my heart I always meditate upon the Supreme Lord Vishnu and always chant His mantras. By chanting this great six-syllable mantra I taste the eternal nectar of ecstatic joy. O Lady with an auspicious face, I have answered all that you have asked me. Affectionately I ask you, what else do you desire to hear?"

Parvati said, "O sinless one, tell me about the tamasic scriptures that were composed by the brahmanas bereft of devotion to the Lord. O Lord of the demigods Please tell me their names in sequence.

Lord Shiva replied, "O goddess, please listen. In sequence I shall tell you about the tamasic texts. Simply by remembering them even wise persons become deluded. First,I Myself proclaimed the Shiva, pasupata, and related texts. After my power had entered him, Kanada preached the Vaisesika Philosophy. Similarly, Gautama preached Nyaya,and Kapila preached the atheistic Sankhya. Brihaspati preached the much-censured Charvaka doctrine, and Buddha proclaimed Buddhism to destroy the demons.

Padma Purana 6.236.7

mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina

"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy.

Padma Purana 6.236.8-9

apartham sruti-vakyanam darsayan loka-garhitam
sva-karma-rupam tyajya tvam atraiva pratipadyate

sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate
paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate

"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their actual meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."

Padma Purana 6.236.10

brahmanas caparam rupam nirgunam vaksyate maya
sarva-svam jagato py asya mohanartham kalu yuge

"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."


Padma Purana 6.236.11

vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam
mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat

"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."

[As described in the seventh chapter of adi-lila of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, while speaking to Prakashananda Saraswati and the mayavadi sannyasis of Benares, Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu cited these texts to show how Lord Shiva had come in Kali-yuga as Shripad Sankaracharya to propound the philosophy of monism and bewilder the souls. Cited translation of texts 7,10 and 11 are based on the translation of His Divine Grace Shrila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as found in his purport to Cc. Adi 7.110.]

respected prabhu ji......... all glories to srila prabhupada..... i respect the thoughts of yours and the strong proofs about krishna being supior but , for us being krishna conscious we sud respect every deity same as we respect all bhaktas as parts n parcels of krishna... similarly we can fing krishna in every god..... after all wat matters is the only one supreme lord not wat's his name....

hare krishna !

Hare krishna. as we all know krishna is supreme. iswar param krishna' and all other are inferior to him. sometimes krishna take subordinate position such as wd arjuna of sudama so it does nt mean that he become subordinate. he is supreme always. as far pratibha matajis repaly is concern, she is absolutely right. we have to gve respect to everyone right from small ant and what to speak about lord shiva. she may nt mean that u consider krishna subordinate. no. he is supreme bt if u come acros any deity atleast gv respect, if nt gven ok u hv already satify them by serving.

. . . if made mistake at ur feet plz forgve. hare krishna
Hare krishna. as we all know krishna is supreme. iswar param krishna' and all other are inferior to him. sometimes krishna take subordinate position such as wd arjuna of sudama so it does nt mean that he become subordinate. he is supreme always. as far pratibha matajis repaly is concern, she is absolutely right. we have to gve respect to everyone right from small ant and what to speak about lord shiva. she may nt mean that u consider krishna subordinate. no. he is supreme bt if u come acros any deity atleast gv respect, if nt gven ok u hv already satify them by serving.

. . . if made mistake at ur feet plz forgve. hare krishna

Hare Krishna !! my pranAms to Bhagawan and Bhagawatas !!

Maharshi Ved-Vyas (Krishna-Dwaipayana) came from the line of Sage Parasara and his ancestors were devotees of Sri Vishnu and great devotees themselves. Srila Ved-Vyasa in all his puranas refer to Krishna or Vishnu as Bhagawan and other gods by their respective names. We should strive to be devotees like them and glorify Bhagawan Krishna.

Hari Om !!

hare krishna mata ji dandavat

a vaishnava should not consider vishnu equal to shiva ,if he say so its certainly a offense .the puran you have quoted above is from shiva puran.

indeed he is most powerful of the demigods but can never be equal to vishnu

as he himself says in padam puran "Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorace,describw any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis"

and why he said to be supreme in shiva puran he himself says"Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, dercorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."

Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behaviour. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.

"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conqeur these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"

Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.

"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.

"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"

Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instrustion, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."

"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spkoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'"

he furthur says in skand purana

"

siva-sastresu tad grahyam
bhagavac-chastra-yogi yat
paramo visnur evaikas
taj jnanam moksa-sadhanam
sastranam nirnayas tv
esas tad anyan mohanaya hi. iti.

ata - therefore; uktam - said; skande - in the Skanda Purana; sanmukham - Karttikeya; prati - to; sri-sivena - by Lord Siva; siva - of Siva; sastresu - in the scriptures; tat - that; grahyam - to be accepted; bhagavac-chastra-yogi - appropriate for the scriptures of Lord Visnu; yat - what; paramah - Supreme; visnuh - Lord Visnu; eva - indeed; ekah - one; taj - that; jnanam - knowledge; moksa-sadhanam - bringing liberation; sastranam - of scriptures; nirnayah - the conclusion; tv - indeed; esah - this; tat - that; anyan - another; mohanaya - for bewilderment; hi - indeed; iti - thus.

In the Skanda Purana, Lord Siva tells Karttikeya:

The statements of the Siva scriptures should be accepted only when they agree with the Visnu scriptures. Lord Visnu is the only Supreme Lord, and knowledge of Him is the path to liberation. That is the conclusion of all the scriptures. Any other conclusions are meant only to bewilder the people.

"

what is the actual position of lord shiva is told here in

"Lord Shiva has a very unique and significant position in the cosmic manifestation. In fact Lord Shiva is the most powerful, second only to Lord Vishnu. Shiva is an expansion of Lord Krishna. Revealed scriptures explain that Krishna has 64 qualities.  Lord Brahma posses 78% of these qualities and Lord Shiva possesses 84% of these qualities. Since living entities are also like Brahma so they also possess 78% of these qualities but in lesser extent. None of them possess all 100%. 

The scriptures like Srimad – Bhagavatam, Brahma – samhita, Padma – Purana etc. explains the position of Lord Shiva in this universe.

  1. Srimad – Bhagavatam (S.B) (12.13.16) states vaisnavanam yatha sambhu i.e. Lord Shiva is the best of the Vaishnavas, the devotee of Lord Krishna.
  2. S.B (6.3.20) informs us that Lord Shiva is one of the 12 Mahajanas, the authorities on Vaisnava philosophy.
  3. In S.B 4.24.76, Lord Shiva states that if anyone reads his Rudra geeta prayer then he will invoke the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna.
  4. Lord Shiva tells his wife that he drank hala hala, the poison which came out during the churning of the ocean, to please Lord Vishnu.(S.B. 8.7.40)
  5. In Padma Purana Shiva tells his wife Sati,”sri rama rama rameti rame rame manorame sahasra namah tat tulyam rama nama varanane.” Lord Shiva clearly speaks here that he relishes chanting the names of Lord Rama.
  6. Lord Shiva got bewildered when he saw the female form of Lord Vishnu, Mohini Murti. Lord Shiva later reveals that he is unable to completely understand the illusory energy of Lord Krishna. This is stated in S.B. (8.12.10).
  7. When Krishna displayed his Universal form then Arjuna said: “My dear Lord Krishna, I see assembled in Your body, all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahma sitting on the lotus flower, as well as Lord Shiva and all the sages and divine serpents.” Bhagavad-gita (11.15).
  8. During Lord Krishna’s pastimes in Vrindavan, Lord Shiva wanted to participate in the rasa – lila dance along with the cowherd damsels and he desired to become a gopi.

 (Reference: Self – Manager by H.G. Radheshyam Prabhu, President Iskcon Pune)

Braham Samhita (verse 10) clearly establishes that Lord Shiva derives his power from Lord Vishnu, “The person embodying the material causal principle, viz., the great lord of this mundane world [Maheshvara] Shambhu, in the form of the male generating organ, is joined to his female consort, the limited energy [Maya] as the efficient causal principle. The Lord of the world Maha-Vishnu is manifest in him by His subjective portion in the form of His glance.”

Lord Shiva is neither an avatara nor avesha and is also not in between them. Lord Shiva is the greatest demigod, even greater than Lord Brahma. He is the spiritual master of the entire universe. He has his own spiritual line (sampradaya) called the Rudra – sampradaya. At present this sampradaya is represented by Vishnusvami-sampradaya, or the Vallabha-sampradaya"

srila Prabhupad about the postion of Lord shiva

"

(ROOM CONVERSTATION, CHICAGO, 9TH JULY 1975)

Devotee: Shrila Prabhupada, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gita. He visits our
temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krishna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krishna. So he has now interpreted that
to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krishna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I'm not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...
Prabhupada: Difficulty?
Brahmananda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krishna says, "You can please Me by worshiping My devotee," and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krishna. So therefore this man says, "Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krishna."
Prabhupada: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krishna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.
Devotee (3): I've got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krishna, but there's no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.
Prabhupada: No, vaishnavanam yatha sambhuh: "Amongst the Vaishnavas, Sambhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaishnava." So we worship Lord Siva as Vaishnava. We gives respect to Vaishnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaishnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krishna will be pleased. Devotee (3): Shrila Prabhupada, he does not chant Hare Krishna, he chants Om Namah Shivaya
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Devotee (3): It's all right?
Prabhupada: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.
Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krishna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...
Prabhupada: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaishnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.

Hare Krishna! Om Namo Narayana! Sir the Padma Purana is contradicting itself. Here the quotes you provided indicate pasandis to be people who think of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva as to be the same. However, Lord Vishnu in the Padma Purana, Part 10, Section 7 (KRIYAYOGASARAKHANDA), Chapter 2 says:

Verses 83-86: Those who are without lust and anger, who are free from harmfulness and hypocrisy, who are free from'greed and folly, should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who are not jealous, who are kind, who desire the good of all beings, who speak the truth, should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who advise pious acts, who practise pious acts, who serve their preceptors (and elders), should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who look upon you, me and Sankara as equal, and who honour a guest, should be known to be Visnu's devotees.

Hare Krishna! Om Namo Narayana! Sir the Padma Purana is contradicting itself. Here the quotes you provided indicate pasandis to be people who think of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva as to be the same. However, Lord Vishnu in the Padma Purana, Part 10, Section 7 (KRIYAYOGASARAKHANDA), Chapter 2 says:

Verses 83-86: Those who are without lust and anger, who are free from harmfulness and hypocrisy, who are free from'greed and folly, should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who are not jealous, who are kind, who desire the good of all beings, who speak the truth, should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who advise pious acts, who practise pious acts, who serve their preceptors (and elders), should be known to be Visnu's devotees. Those who look upon you, me and Sankara as equal, and who honour a guest, should be known to be Visnu's devotees.

Respected all prabhu jis and matajis............. got your points......... no need to argue ... a peaceful disscussion and one doubtful question sud be answered vd love and patients .. not like using the words "mayawadi" and "demoniac" ......... dese words don't show humbleness and it doesn't suit people in KC...

sorry if made wrong statement ...

HARI BOL

Hare Krishna !! my humble pranAms to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas !

Prabhujis and Matajis, I've noticed many devotees using the word 'mayavadi' and 'demonaic' in a tone of hatred to refer to Advaitins or non-vaishnavas. There seems to be a confusion in my opinion.

Mayavadi philosophy basically means assuming the power of 'Maya' to separate one from the supreme divinity. When knowledge emerges to wipe out ignorance, then 'maya' removes and a living entity becomes one with the supreme brahman. However, Vaishnavic philosophies consider 'maya' being a powerful potency of Krishna, the Supreme, to delude jivas in the material world until devotion leads to realization of eternal service relationship with Godhead and remain never to be captured again by 'Maya'. However, 'mayavadi' necessarily doesn't mean that the person holding a concept is a rascal. Whether, a person is a rascal is determined by one's behaviour or character.

It is also inappropriate to consider a 'mayavadi' person to be demoniac. It is Kali purusha and the 10 places of offence that is demoniac as the purpose of Kali purusha is to spread adharma.

In Kali Yuga, aspects of Devas and Asuras, exist in humanbeings and Kali purusha influences people to display demonic qualities. Only devotion to the Supreme can save one from Kali purusha - may it be devotion to the Supreme Krishna or devotion to other gods.

Hari Om !!

In service to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas,

Suresh

Hare Krishna !! my humble pranAms to the Bhagavan and Bhagavathas !!

/**

Shiva earlier had a tilak of A Vaishnav , later he changed it on instruction of Vishnu ,

Because demon were behaving like Vaishnav , but they were not , so sudarshan did not killed them ,

Seeing this Vishnu instructed to Shiva to have a demonic kind of Make up so that demons worship you ,

He instructed to declare yourself higher then me ,and hide my identity , so that only pure soul reach me !!

**/

Is it not good when demons behave like Vaishnavas as the objective is to transform oneself to be a devotee of Vishnu (like prahlada)?

Why should Shri Vishnu not wish demons to become Vaishnavas and give such an order to Lord Siva to perform acts to delude demons and not allow them to worship Vishnu. Did he wish to thus prolong enmity between the Devas and Asuras so that Devas win and Asuras remain defeated?

Isn't the ultimate purpose of all jivas is to realize Krishna-Vishnu irrespective of what kind of original creatures they are - Devas, Danavas, Yakshas etc.?

Please enlighten us prabhujis and Matajis..

In loving service to Bhagavan and Bhagavatas,

Suresh

Prabhu Ji, please read the first relply I made on this discussion. There lies the answer to your question.

Hari Bol! 

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