Blasphemous religious thoughts, please help!

Hare Krishna dear devotees

PAMHO AGTSP

I recently posted a discussion about our thoughts and Krishna:

http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/forum/topics/silent-conversations-with-krishna

I received lovely advice that i am very grateful for.

I seem to be suffering from blasphemous religious thoughts. According to one of the sites on the net blasphemous religious thoughts is defined as the following:

Blasphemous thoughts are a common component of OCD, documented throughout history; notable religious figures such as Martin Luther and St. Ignatius were known to be tormented by intrusive, blasphemous or religious thoughts and urges.^[20] Martin Luther had urges to curse God and Jesus, and was obsessed with images of "the Devil's behind".^[20][21] St. Ignatius had numerous obsessions, including the fear of stepping on pieces of straw forming a cross, fearing that it showed disrespect to Christ.^[20][22] A study of 50 patients with a primary diagnosis of obsessive-compulsive disorder found that 40% had religious and blasphemous thoughts and doubts—a higher, but not statistically significantly different number than the 38% who had the obsessional thoughts related to dirt and contamination more commonly associated with OCD.^[23] One study suggests that content of intrusive thoughts may vary depending on culture, and that blasphemous thoughts may be more common in men than in women.^[24]

According to Fred Penzel, a New York psychologist, some common religious obsessions and intrusive thoughts are:^[13]

sexual thoughts about God, saints, and religious figures
bad thoughts or images during prayer or meditation
thoughts of being possessed
fears of sinning or breaking a religious law or performing a ritual incorrectly
fears of omitting prayers or reciting them incorrectly
repetitive and intrusive blasphemous thoughts
urges or impulses to say blasphemous words or commit blasphemous acts during religious services.

Suffering can be greater and treatment complicated when intrusive thoughts involve religious implications;^[20] patients may believe the thoughts are inspired by Satan,^[25] and may fear punishment from God or have magnified shame because they perceive themselves as sinful.^[26] Symptoms can be more distressful for sufferers with strong religious convictions or beliefs.^[13]

Baer believes that blasphemous thoughts are more common in Catholics and evangelical Protestants than in other religions, whereas Jews or Muslims tend to have obsessions related more to complying with the laws and rituals of their faith, and performing the rituals perfectly.^[27] He hypothesizes that this is because what is considered inappropriate varies among cultures and religions, and intrusive thoughts torment their sufferers with whatever is considered most inappropriate in the surrounding culture.^[28]

Some of the things mentioned in the above is similar to what is going on in my mind:( I sometimes think bad things about Krsna-Radha (unintentionally!), sometimes i doubt what I read about Him, sometimes i wonder if I'm deliberately thinking bad thoughts (even though i know I don't want to think these thoughts). My intrusive, unwanted thoughts are just plain blasphemous!

These thoughts leave me feeling guilty, angry at myself, disappointed,defeated etc. I really feel as if my mind is controlling me instead of the other way around.

I read something about OCD and blasphemous thoughts on a Christian website:

http://www.benotconformed.org/thoughts.htm

I'd like some advice from a Krishna Conscious point of view.

The worst part about having these thoughts is that it's crippling my progress towards God.

I avoid praying because i think 'why would Krsna-Radha want to listen to someone who thinks ill of Them?'

I don't want God to hate me:(

I don't want to think ill of God, or anyone else

Any advice?

S.C

Hare Krsna,

His divine grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has fortunately given many explanations on several topics including blasphemous thoughts and equally important in your case about material

and spirtual destiny. I hope that reading the explanations below will help you feel positive even if you feel you have not achieved much on the material side. Bhaktin Maral advice on the maha mantra is also very very important, It is the only solution for this difficult age of Kali. Thanks to Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya mercy, it is relatively easy to do, although we must learn to get used to chanting often and liking the process. Can you imagine how much time other purificatory processess such as rituals, yagnas, pilgrimages etc can take compared to chanting maha mantra? It is true though that we have to persevere and chant regularly, with humility and belief. It cleans impurities from heart. We have to be patient and progressive, not give up the chanting even when we feel depressed or unclean.

From the book "Civilization and Transcendence":

The Vedic civilization of self-realization begins from the varnasrama system of social organization. Varnäçramäcäravatä puruñeëa paraù pumän Visnur ärädhyate: "Everyone should offer up the fruits of his occupational duty to the lotus feet of the Lord Visnu , or Krsna." That is why the Vedic system is called varnasrama—literally, "social organization with a spiritual perspective."
The varnasrama system has four social and four spiritual divisions. the social divisions are the brähmaëas [teachers and priests], kñatriyas [administrators and military men], vaiçyas [farmers and merchants], and çüdras [laborers and craftsmen], while the spiritual divisions are the brahmacärés [students], gåhasthas [householders], vänaprasthas [retirees], and sannyäsés [renunciants]. But the ultimate goal is Visnur ärädhyate—the worship of the Supreme Lord, Visnu , by all. That is the idea.
But the members of the modern so-called civilization do not know of varnasrama. Therefore they have created a society that is simply a dog's race. The dog is running on four legs, and thay are running on four wheels. That's all. And they think the four-wheel race is advancement of civilization.
Vedic civilization is different. As Närada Muni says, tasyaiva hetoù prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatäm upary adhaù: the learned, astute person will use this life to gain what he has missed in countless prior lives—namely, realization of self and realization of God. Someone may ask, "Then shall we do nothing?" Yes do nothing simply to improve your material position. Whatever material happiness is allotted for you by destiny, you'll get it wherever you are. Take to Krsna consciousness. You'll get these other things besides.
"How shall I get them?"
How? Kälena sarvatra gabhéra-raàhasä: by the arrangement of eternal time, everything will come about in due course. The example is given that even though you do not want distress, still distress comes upon you. Similarly, even if you do not work hard for the happiness that is destined to be yours, still it will come.
Similarly, Prahläda Mahäräja says, na tat-prayäsaù kartavyam: you should not waste your energy for material happiness, because you cannot get more than what you are destined to ha That is not possible. "How can I believe it—that by working harder I will not get more material happiness than I would otherwise have had?"
Because you are undergoing so many distressing conditions even though you do not want them. Who wants distress? For example, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi was killed by his own countrymen. He was a great man, he was protected by so many followers, he was beloved by all—and still he was killed. Destiny. Who can protect you from all these distressing conditions?

"So," you should conclude, "if these distressing conditions come upon me by force, the other kind of condition, the opposite number, will also come. Therefore why shall I waste my time trying to avoid distress and gain so-called happiness? Let me utilize my energy for Krsna consciousness." That is intelligence. You cannot check your destiny. The magazine's question touches on this point.

Pusta Krsna: Yes, the usual charge is that this Vedic system of civilization is fatalistic, and that as a result people are not making as much material progress as they otherwise would.

Srila Prabhupada: No, no, the Vedic system is not fatalistic. It is fatalistic only in the sense that one's material destiny cannot be changed. But your spiritual life is in your hands. our point is this: The whole Vedic civilization is based on the understanding that destiny allows only a certain amount of material happiness in this world, and that our efforts should therefore be directed toward self-realization. Nobody is enjoying uninterrupted material happiness. That is not possible. A certain amount of material happiness and a certain amount of material distress—these both must be present always. So just as you cannot check your distressing condition of life, similarly you cannot check your happy condition of life. It will come automatically. Therefore, don't waste your time with these things. better you utilize your energy for advancing in Krsna consciousness.

Hari Bol,

Replies

Krishna Dasan May 6, 2017 at 9:40pm

Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranam!

As suggested above by a Prabhu, please read Srimad Bhagavatam regularly where there are good answers to some of the questions being discussed and will also serve as source of faith in the pursuit and in the lord. In Srimad Bhagavatam, there is a verse (do not recall the canto/chapter), where lord Bramma (himself) goes through certain challenges (in line with the discussion) with his thoughts (as part of creation). Now what to speak of us ? especially for the fact that we live in kaliyug!

Also, if there are any strong material desires, its better to achieve those (while sadhana is practiced alongside) so the mind does not confront too much in spiritual pursuit. When the material goals are achieved, It becomes natural for the mind to accept the lord when it realizes the happiness in this world (in any form) is only 'temporary'. Please read 1st 6 chapters of Bhagavad Gita (Karma Yogam) and try to apply it in any material pursuit.

Only very blessed souls directly pursue the lord without having to depend on material struggle as triggers. Rest of all the (common) people wake up from the dream (of life) only when they face struggle in this world.

You are honest and hence the lord will not leave you even if you want to move away from him. It is only because of lord sri Krishna's mercy that we worship and serve him and not because of our efforts.So being patient is the key. 'To Wait' is also an 'action' that we are expected to do, especially in these times.
This reply was deleted.
- Achal gulati June 1, 2017 at 1:40pm
  
  very nice explanation MG, you explained about intrusive thoughts, very well medically. The way you explained it seemed that you are a psychiatrist by profession. But Anyways i would like to add, that you covered, what and how do these thoughts affect ? but you didn't mention why do these thoughts come ? as per some study, 90% people are affected by such thoughts out of the people chosen for this study. i would like to add something, these thoughts come to people who are and were very lusty, selfish, angry and sinful. believe it or not its a fact otherwise why don't these thoughts come just to everyone on this planet. but to few people only. These people were extremely lusty, angry and sinful people in their past lives and present as well before coming to KC. These people have abused Krishna(GOD) and all his incarnations and also did not believe in him as supreme lord, in front of him/them whenever he came on this mrityulok during satyug,treta,dwara as we were also there in front of him as we are also eternal like him. also were involved in lustful activities like illicit sex, liquor, and lot more sins, because of these past lives' karmas and sanskaar, they have developed these tendencies that whenever they try to pray and do some devotional service , Their own minds (MAYA) dodge them with these intrusive absurd thoughts, Maya's job is positive not negative, maya by punishing the jeevas in various ways, bring them closer to krishna not AWAY from krishna. YES these people think bad of themselves, which is fact, if they abused god in their past lives , thought bad of him, were just doing lustful activities. it means that they were bad human beings. So all they need is chant, think of krishna and LEAVE IT ON KRISHNA....because he can only SAVE you noone else....Shrimad bhagwad gita says he is source of all good or bad in this universe. if he desires then all these bad intrusive thoughts will vanish otherwise no chance...his mercy.....remember your MIND is HIS PROPERTY as he has 8 different forms of maya including our material body, mind, intellegence and ego....so he is the owner/responsible for these 8 potencies of him.. Hare Krishna..
Volunteer

Mohini Madhavi January 25, 2013 at 11:19am

Hare Krishna dear Mataji, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

This situation is very very known to me also, Mataji. You are not alone. Because this world is full of faults we see it and dislike it. When we see fat Devotee we say "oh how he is fat! :O"

we see not so cute person we say "oh how he is not cute??!" we see sick person we think ill of him also. And when we someone better than us we look with envy.

In this way every second every moment we think such like things. And in the reality it is due to our envy to the Origin - Krishna. In the reality it is our envy to Krishna.

And Lord Chaitanya says that in this age there is no other way, no other way, no other way rather than chanting of the Holy Names of Krishna.

Because of that we should always, every moment chant the Holy Names. Weather on mind or on beads. But chant. Because mind never will stop. if we do not use it for the service of Krishna it will automatically serve to maya.

It is difficult but it is possible by the mercy of Krishna.

We chant and cry: Oh Lord, i am so fallen, i am unable to control my mind. Please, You are all powerful, please You do something! Please, i need Your help! Without Your help i am zero!...

In this way we chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

NO MATTER WHAT BAD THOUGHT COMES WE JUST FORGIVE OURSELVES AND CRY FOR KRISHNA TO HELP US TO THINK OF HIM.

No need to lament much. But have faith in Krishna that if He desires those thoughts will be removed from our mind completely.

Concerning those physiological sciences please abandon all other o\understanding and take shelter of the lotus Feet of Krishna and He will protect.

Your servant,
- Shivanie Chetty > Mohini Madhavi January 31, 2013 at 7:18pm
  
  Hare Krsna mataji
  
  PAMHO AGTSP
  
  Thank you for replying to my problem, I feel sometimes (alot lately actually) that I'm drifting away from whatever progress I've been making towards the Lord:(
  
  I chant, but after my minimum of three rounds, I go on with the day in such a mundane way:(
  
  I feel stuck in doubts, selfish (material) desires and worries about the future (materially).
  
  I really wish that I could practice Krishna Consciousness properly, without faults, but it's hard when my faith is so weak.
  
  I sometimes feel a little useless too, trying to find a job, trying to find my way forward into the future (I'm in my early twenties) and having not succeeding is a bit disappointing.
  
  Sometimes failure in one aspect of life creates fear in failing in bigger aspects (I don't want to fail God anymore than i already have). Does that make sense?
  
  I also wonder sometimes if me coming to God is because of material problems, would i still have tried to learn more about Him if my life was materially better?
  
  It hurts to think that I want the Lord in my life, to make my life better. It sounds so selfish!
  
  I want to get to know God, I want to develop Krsna Prem, I want to follow His injunction, I want to give up lust, anger and greed, I want to please God... I just feel weak:(
  
  I will definetly take your advice and chant within my mind:)
  
  Thank you
  
  ys
  
  S.C
  - Volunteer
    
    Jay Krishnan Ramasawmy > Shivanie Chetty February 3, 2013 at 12:29pm
    
    Hare Krsna,
    
    His divine grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has fortunately given many explanations on several topics including blasphemous thoughts and equally important in your case about material
    
    and spirtual destiny. I hope that reading the explanations below will help you feel positive even if you feel you have not achieved much on the material side. Bhaktin Maral advice on the maha mantra is also very very important, It is the only solution for this difficult age of Kali. Thanks to Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya mercy, it is relatively easy to do, although we must learn to get used to chanting often and liking the process. Can you imagine how much time other purificatory processess such as rituals, yagnas, pilgrimages etc can take compared to chanting maha mantra? It is true though that we have to persevere and chant regularly, with humility and belief. It cleans impurities from heart. We have to be patient and progressive, not give up the chanting even when we feel depressed or unclean.
    
    From the book "Civilization and Transcendence":
    
    The Vedic civilization of self-realization begins from the varnasrama system of social organization. Varnäçramäcäravatä puruñeëa paraù pumän Visnur ärädhyate: "Everyone should offer up the fruits of his occupational duty to the lotus feet of the Lord Visnu , or Krsna." That is why the Vedic system is called varnasrama—literally, "social organization with a spiritual perspective."
    The varnasrama system has four social and four spiritual divisions. the social divisions are the brähmaëas [teachers and priests], kñatriyas [administrators and military men], vaiçyas [farmers and merchants], and çüdras [laborers and craftsmen], while the spiritual divisions are the brahmacärés [students], gåhasthas [householders], vänaprasthas [retirees], and sannyäsés [renunciants]. But the ultimate goal is Visnur ärädhyate—the worship of the Supreme Lord, Visnu , by all. That is the idea.
    But the members of the modern so-called civilization do not know of varnasrama. Therefore they have created a society that is simply a dog's race. The dog is running on four legs, and thay are running on four wheels. That's all. And they think the four-wheel race is advancement of civilization.
    Vedic civilization is different. As Närada Muni says, tasyaiva hetoù prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatäm upary adhaù: the learned, astute person will use this life to gain what he has missed in countless prior lives—namely, realization of self and realization of God. Someone may ask, "Then shall we do nothing?" Yes do nothing simply to improve your material position. Whatever material happiness is allotted for you by destiny, you'll get it wherever you are. Take to Krsna consciousness. You'll get these other things besides.
    "How shall I get them?"
    How? Kälena sarvatra gabhéra-raàhasä: by the arrangement of eternal time, everything will come about in due course. The example is given that even though you do not want distress, still distress comes upon you. Similarly, even if you do not work hard for the happiness that is destined to be yours, still it will come.
    Similarly, Prahläda Mahäräja says, na tat-prayäsaù kartavyam: you should not waste your energy for material happiness, because you cannot get more than what you are destined to ha That is not possible. "How can I believe it—that by working harder I will not get more material happiness than I would otherwise have had?"
    Because you are undergoing so many distressing conditions even though you do not want them. Who wants distress? For example, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi was killed by his own countrymen. He was a great man, he was protected by so many followers, he was beloved by all—and still he was killed. Destiny. Who can protect you from all these distressing conditions?
    
    "So," you should conclude, "if these distressing conditions come upon me by force, the other kind of condition, the opposite number, will also come. Therefore why shall I waste my time trying to avoid distress and gain so-called happiness? Let me utilize my energy for Krsna consciousness." That is intelligence. You cannot check your destiny. The magazine's question touches on this point.
    
    Pusta Krsna: Yes, the usual charge is that this Vedic system of civilization is fatalistic, and that as a result people are not making as much material progress as they otherwise would.
    
    Srila Prabhupada: No, no, the Vedic system is not fatalistic. It is fatalistic only in the sense that one's material destiny cannot be changed. But your spiritual life is in your hands. our point is this: The whole Vedic civilization is based on the understanding that destiny allows only a certain amount of material happiness in this world, and that our efforts should therefore be directed toward self-realization. Nobody is enjoying uninterrupted material happiness. That is not possible. A certain amount of material happiness and a certain amount of material distress—these both must be present always. So just as you cannot check your distressing condition of life, similarly you cannot check your happy condition of life. It will come automatically. Therefore, don't waste your time with these things. better you utilize your energy for advancing in Krsna consciousness.
    
    Hari Bol,
    - Shivanie Chetty > Jay Krishnan Ramasawmy February 3, 2013 at 1:26pm
      
      Hare Krsna
      
      PAMHO AGTSP
      
      Thank you for the wonderful explanations. "Whatever material happiness is allotted for you by destiny, you'll get it wherever you are" I hadn't thought about it that way:?
      
      I understand the importance of chanting the mahamantra, but because of my 'dominating' mind my mind tends to wander whilse chanting. Any advice on how I can keep my mind focused whilse chanting?
      
      Hari bol
      
      ys
      
      S.C

This reply was deleted.