Posted by David on December 13, 2011 at 9:25pm in Krishna
Please Accept my most humble obeisances.All Glories to Srila Prabhupada, Sri Gurudeva & Gauranga.Hare KrishnaI was recently given a deity of Bal Gopal. He is eating sweets and smiling. I feel great attachment to this merciful form of Sri Krishna. I know that we (Rupanugas) are worshipping Srimati Radhika & Lord Krishna simultaneously.This deity of Gopalaji is from before He was doing Rasa lila with the Gopi's of Vrndavan.Is it still okay to worship Bal Gopal?I do not wish to make any more offenses, so I am trying to be very careful.Hopefully my devotee friends will explain this to me clearly, as they have with other questions I have asked.I really appreciate your responses (even if they may be a bit harsh, they are very explanitory). I benefit a lot from the knowledge you all have shared with me.Gaur-Hari bolYour fallen servant,Bhakta David
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hare krsna sudheendra pr pamho regarding your question of three complete forms of krsna in vraja , mathura and dwarka kaviraj goswami describes it in chaitanya charitamrita.also in mathura and dwarka krsna's vasudeva expansion is there. krsna never leaves vrindavan. vrindavana parityaja padam ekam na gachhati. he does not take even on step outside. n Caitanya-caritämåta (20.143) Mahaprabhu has said: veda-çästre kahe sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana kåñëa, kåñëa-bhakti, prema,— tina mahä-dhana In the Vedic literatures, Krishna is the central point of attraction, and His service is our activity. To attain the platform of love of Krishna is life’s ultimate goal. Therefore Krishna, Krishna’s service and love of Krishna are the three great riches of life. In the Vedas there are three tattvas and three places of Krishna’s pastimes, Krishna in Dwarka, Krishna in Mathura, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi. Krishna in Dwarka is complete, Krishna in Mathura is more complete, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi is most complete. Krishna in Vrajabhumi is nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Nanda Maharaja, not vasudeva-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Vasudev. The son of Vasudev is known as Väsudev. It is yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, nanda-nandana-kåñëa — the son of Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja — who is eternally kiçora. Kiçora refers to an eleven or twelve-year-old. This kiçora is a cowherd boy, and He is very beautiful. He is svayaà-bhagavän the original Personality of Godhead. Nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Nanda Maharaja and Yasoda-mata, is the essence of the Supreme Godhead, bhagavattä-sära. All other aspects of Godhead are His portions, His plenary portions, or portions of His portions — aàça or kalä. The lélä-, yuga-, puruña and guëa-avatäras are all Krishna’s aàça and kalä, His portions. But ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam — nanda-nandana-kåñëa, yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, is svayaà-bhagavän the origin of all avatäras. i got the above information from srila gour govinda maharaj's book mathura meets vrindavan (essence of supreme godhead). also rupa goswami and kavi karnapura describe that krsna in vrindavan has all 64 qualities in full. vasudeva krsna or mathuranatha does not have the 4 extra qualities like rupa madhurya, venu madhurya ,lila madhurya and guna madhurya which are only in vrajendranandana yashodanandana radharamana krsna not in dwarkadhish. finallt its the choice and inclination of a particular devotee to which form he is attracted. like hanumana is only attracted to lord rama he can never be attracted to krsna. your servant
One of the senior devotees in our temple told me that SP recommended grahastas to worship Bal Gopal/Gaur-Nitai/Jagannath Baladev Subadra deities at their homes. For worshiping Radha Krishna requires very high standards at home and is generally not recommended. Now that you have the Bal Gopal at your home, have a picture of Gaur Nitai next to them so that they take care of Him very well (another trick a devotee taught me).
I have a small gopal deity with me which I have been worshiping for more than 15 years when I even did not know anything about ISKCON and KC. However, I treat him well now by following the deity worship standards laid down by SP. I also have the deities of Lakshmi Narayana at home, who mercifully came with gopal long back. I massage them with scented oil and then bath with fresh water that has flower petals soaked in it and mixed with rose water and put the garments and jewlery on them and some fresh flowers. I do this every day when ever I am at home. Attached below is a pic of him...
manitabh > Sudheendra SDecember 15, 2011 at 2:44pm
hare krsna pr
we gaudiya vaishnavas must not worship lakshmi narayana because it is in aishvarya bhava and not according to our siddhanta. if we want to enter into the realm of vrindavan we must follow our predecessor acharyas and worship gauranga mahaprabhu.
krsna of vrindavan, shyamsundar is worshipped by gaudiya and rupanuga vaishnavas along with srimati radharani.
actually In the Vedas there are three tattvas and three places of Krishna’s pastimes, Krishna in Dwarka, Krishna in Mathura, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi. Krishna in Dwarka is complete, Krishna in Mathura is more complete, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi is most complete.
krsna in Vrajabhumi is nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Nanda Maharaja, not vasudeva-nandana-kåñëa. The son of Vasudev is known as Väsudev. It is yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, nanda-nandana-kåñëa — the son of Yasoda who is eternally kiçora a cowherd boy, and He is very beautiful. He is svayaà-bhagavän the original Personality of Godhead. Nanda-nandana-kåñëa, is the essence of the Supreme Godhead, bhagavattä-sära.
Sudheendra S > manitabhDecember 16, 2011 at 12:04pm
In pune ISKCON temple, there is a deity of Balaji and they are building a temple for him too... As far as I know, he is also worshiped in Ishwarya bhaav. Infact most of the deities in south are worshiped in ishvarya bhava and once again most of these deities are various forms of Narayana only like Sri Ranganatha in srirangam, etc... Sri Chaitnya mahaprabhu himself visited all these temples and offered his prayers to these deities.HH Radhanath Maharaj takes his desciples on yatra to south india once in 2-3 years and we visit all these temples.
Gaudiya vishnavas worship Lord in the mood of Krishna in Vrindavan no doubt. That does not mean we SHOULD not worship the forms of Narayana. Though its not the highest form, nevertheless its something inferior.
I don't know from where you got this information about complete... Complete means complete. how can there be more complete and most complete??? I agree that Krishna in these 3 places is more mersiful than other but Complete....!!!! The definition of completeness is given in Sri Isopanishad invocation verse.
manitabh > Sudheendra SDecember 19, 2011 at 6:07pm
hare krsna pr
pamho agtsp
regarding your question of balaji worship somone donated that diety there so a temple is being built there to worship lord balaji.
we should worship all vishnu forms i dont disagree with it but to which form we are more inclined to is the most important thing. like bhaktivinod thakur worshipped and we also worship him to remove anarthas and obstacles in our bhajan.
he writes in navadvip bhava taranga about narsimha deva
South east of there is Nrsimha Puri. When will I see the pure transcendental sweetness of this place, also called Deva-palli? I will roll about on the ground in ecstatic love while visiting this residence of Lord Nrsimha. Sincerely begging for His grace without a trace of duplicity in my heart, I will attain Krishna-prema. 36 Within my sinful heart the six enemies headed by lust perpetually reside, as well as duplicity, the desire for fame, plus sheer cunning. At the lotus feet of Lord Nrsimha, I hope that He will mercifully purify my heart and give me the desire to serve Lord Krishna. 37 Weeping, I will beg at the lotus feet of Lord Nrsimha for the benediction of worshipping Radha and Krishna in Navadvipa, perfectly safe and free from all difficulties. When will this Lord Hari, whose terrible form strikes fear into fear itself, ever become pleased and show Me His mercy? 38 Even though Lord Nrsimha is terrifying toward the sinful souls He offers great auspiciousness unto the devotees of Lord Krishna headed by Prahlada Maharaja. When will He be pleased to speak words of compassion unto me, a worthless fool, and thereby make me fearless? 39 He will say, "Dear child! Sit down freely and live happily here in Shri Gauranga Dhama. May you nicely worship the Divine Couple and may you develop loving attachment for Their holy names. By the mercy of My devotees, all obstacles are cast far away. with a purified heart, just perform the worship of Radha and Krishna, for such worship overflows with sweet nectar." 40 Saying this, will that Lord delightedly place His own divine lotus feet upon my head? Suddenly I will experience sublime love for the Divine Couple Radha-Krishna and undergo the ecstatic transformations called sattvika. Falling on the ground, I will roll about by the door of Shri Nrsimha's temple
and why radhanath maharaj takes his disciples on south india temples because srila prabhupada tells that all devotees must visit all the places visited by lord sri chaitanya.
i got all this information by reading brihadbhagavatamritam of sanatan goswami pada.
and by hearing radhanath maharaj's lecture on brihad bhagavtamrita.
Sudheendra S > manitabhDecember 15, 2011 at 11:01pm
With all due respects to your lotus feet Manitabh pr, I never told any one to start worship of Lakshmi Narayana. I clearly mentioned that they appeared long back in our home and I can not leave them un attended. Talking about the bhaava that is for true vishnavas like you and not a pretender like me :)
The form is not important. If we worship even Radha Krishna or Gaur nitai and ask for material things then its not realm of vrindavan. When we say Krishna and Vishnu are non different then I dont see any problem in worshiping them.
Bhaav is at heart not on the form.
manitabh > Sudheendra SDecember 15, 2011 at 11:05pm
hare krsna pr
sorry pr i also didnt meant that .but form matters as our heart is attracted to a particular form. krsna and vishnu are non different in tattva but in rasa there is a huge difference.
Hare Krishna Bhakta David Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! all glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Few days back heard in the lecture of His Holiness Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami Maharaja that usually we Rupanugas do not worship Gopal. Who wants to have parental rasa they worship Gopal.
i think for us it is better to worship Sri Sri Goura Nitay who have all Forms. and who do not accept any offense but only see our sincerity.
But You have to talk with senior Devotees who know You and they will say what to do.
I know Devotees who worship Gopal. They carry Him to all Yatras, parikramas.
Replies
hare krsna sudheendra pr
pamho
regarding your question of three complete forms of krsna in vraja , mathura and dwarka kaviraj goswami describes it in chaitanya charitamrita.also in mathura
and dwarka krsna's vasudeva expansion is there. krsna never leaves vrindavan. vrindavana parityaja padam ekam na gachhati. he does not take even on step
outside.
n Caitanya-caritämåta (20.143) Mahaprabhu has said:
veda-çästre kahe sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana
kåñëa, kåñëa-bhakti, prema,— tina mahä-dhana
In the Vedic literatures, Krishna is the central point of attraction, and His service is our activity. To attain the platform of love of Krishna is life’s
ultimate goal. Therefore Krishna, Krishna’s service and love of Krishna are the three great riches of life.
In the Vedas there are three tattvas and three places of Krishna’s pastimes, Krishna in Dwarka, Krishna in Mathura, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi. Krishna in
Dwarka is complete, Krishna in Mathura is more complete, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi is most complete.
Krishna in Vrajabhumi is nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Nanda Maharaja, not vasudeva-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Vasudev. The son of Vasudev is known as
Väsudev. It is yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, nanda-nandana-kåñëa — the son of Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja — who is eternally kiçora. Kiçora refers to an eleven or
twelve-year-old. This kiçora is a cowherd boy, and He is very beautiful. He is svayaà-bhagavän the original Personality of Godhead. Nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the
son of Nanda Maharaja and Yasoda-mata, is the essence of the Supreme Godhead, bhagavattä-sära. All other aspects of Godhead are His portions, His plenary
portions, or portions of His portions — aàça or kalä. The lélä-, yuga-, puruña and guëa-avatäras are all Krishna’s aàça and kalä, His portions. But ete
cäàça-kaläù puàsaù kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam — nanda-nandana-kåñëa, yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, is svayaà-bhagavän the origin of all avatäras.
i got the above information from srila gour govinda maharaj's book mathura meets vrindavan (essence of supreme godhead). also rupa goswami and kavi karnapura
describe that krsna in vrindavan has all 64 qualities in full. vasudeva krsna or mathuranatha does not have the 4 extra qualities like rupa madhurya, venu
madhurya ,lila madhurya and guna madhurya which are only in vrajendranandana yashodanandana radharamana krsna not in dwarkadhish. finallt its the choice and
inclination of a particular devotee to which form he is attracted. like hanumana is only attracted to lord rama he can never be attracted to krsna.
your servant
Hare Krishna David pr.
PAMHO. AGTSP. AGTSG&SG.
One of the senior devotees in our temple told me that SP recommended grahastas to worship Bal Gopal/Gaur-Nitai/Jagannath Baladev Subadra deities at their homes. For worshiping Radha Krishna requires very high standards at home and is generally not recommended. Now that you have the Bal Gopal at your home, have a picture of Gaur Nitai next to them so that they take care of Him very well (another trick a devotee taught me).
I have a small gopal deity with me which I have been worshiping for more than 15 years when I even did not know anything about ISKCON and KC. However, I treat him well now by following the deity worship standards laid down by SP. I also have the deities of Lakshmi Narayana at home, who mercifully came with gopal long back. I massage them with scented oil and then bath with fresh water that has flower petals soaked in it and mixed with rose water and put the garments and jewlery on them and some fresh flowers. I do this every day when ever I am at home. Attached below is a pic of him...
Hari bol!!!
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hare krsna pr
we gaudiya vaishnavas must not worship lakshmi narayana because it is in aishvarya bhava and not according to our siddhanta. if we want to enter into the realm of vrindavan we must follow our predecessor acharyas and worship gauranga mahaprabhu.
krsna of vrindavan, shyamsundar is worshipped by gaudiya and rupanuga vaishnavas along with srimati radharani.
ys
Does this mean that Sri Krishna's lila in Vrndavan is higher than Mathura and Dwarka lilas?
I often feel attraction to the lila of Sri Krishna and Balaram and the cowherd boys.
yes pr it is true.
actually In the Vedas there are three tattvas and three places of Krishna’s pastimes, Krishna in Dwarka, Krishna in Mathura, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi. Krishna in Dwarka is complete, Krishna in Mathura is more complete, and Krishna in Vrajabhumi is most complete.
krsna in Vrajabhumi is nanda-nandana-kåñëa, the son of Nanda Maharaja, not vasudeva-nandana-kåñëa. The son of Vasudev is known as Väsudev. It is yaçodä-nandana-kåñëa, nanda-nandana-kåñëa — the son of Yasoda who is eternally kiçora a cowherd boy, and He is very beautiful. He is svayaà-bhagavän the original Personality of Godhead. Nanda-nandana-kåñëa, is the essence of the Supreme Godhead, bhagavattä-sära.
In pune ISKCON temple, there is a deity of Balaji and they are building a temple for him too... As far as I know, he is also worshiped in Ishwarya bhaav. Infact most of the deities in south are worshiped in ishvarya bhava and once again most of these deities are various forms of Narayana only like Sri Ranganatha in srirangam, etc... Sri Chaitnya mahaprabhu himself visited all these temples and offered his prayers to these deities.HH Radhanath Maharaj takes his desciples on yatra to south india once in 2-3 years and we visit all these temples.
Gaudiya vishnavas worship Lord in the mood of Krishna in Vrindavan no doubt. That does not mean we SHOULD not worship the forms of Narayana. Though its not the highest form, nevertheless its something inferior.
I don't know from where you got this information about complete... Complete means complete. how can there be more complete and most complete??? I agree that Krishna in these 3 places is more mersiful than other but Complete....!!!! The definition of completeness is given in Sri Isopanishad invocation verse.
hare krsna pr
pamho agtsp
regarding your question of balaji worship somone donated that diety there so a temple is being built there to worship lord balaji.
we should worship all vishnu forms i dont disagree with it but to which form we are more inclined to is the most important thing. like bhaktivinod thakur worshipped and we also worship him to remove anarthas and obstacles in our bhajan.
he writes in navadvip bhava taranga about narsimha deva
South east of there is Nrsimha Puri. When will I see the pure transcendental sweetness of this place, also called Deva-palli? I will roll about on the ground in ecstatic love while visiting this residence of Lord Nrsimha. Sincerely begging for His grace without a trace of duplicity in my heart, I will attain Krishna-prema.
36 Within my sinful heart the six enemies headed by lust perpetually reside, as well as duplicity, the desire for fame, plus sheer cunning. At the lotus feet of Lord Nrsimha, I hope that He will mercifully purify my heart and give me the desire to serve Lord Krishna.
37 Weeping, I will beg at the lotus feet of Lord Nrsimha for the benediction of worshipping Radha and Krishna in Navadvipa, perfectly safe and free from all difficulties. When will this Lord Hari, whose terrible form strikes fear into fear itself, ever become pleased and show Me His mercy?
38 Even though Lord Nrsimha is terrifying toward the sinful souls He offers great auspiciousness unto the devotees of Lord Krishna headed by Prahlada Maharaja. When will He be pleased to speak words of compassion unto me, a worthless fool, and thereby make me fearless?
39 He will say, "Dear child! Sit down freely and live happily here in Shri Gauranga Dhama. May you nicely worship the Divine Couple and may you develop loving attachment for Their holy names. By the mercy of My devotees, all obstacles are cast far away. with a purified heart, just perform the worship of Radha and Krishna, for such worship overflows with sweet nectar."
40 Saying this, will that Lord delightedly place His own divine lotus feet upon my head? Suddenly I will experience sublime love for the Divine Couple Radha-Krishna and undergo the ecstatic transformations called sattvika. Falling on the ground, I will roll about by the door of Shri Nrsimha's temple
and why radhanath maharaj takes his disciples on south india temples because srila prabhupada tells that all devotees must visit all the places visited by lord sri chaitanya.
i got all this information by reading brihadbhagavatamritam of sanatan goswami pada.
and by hearing radhanath maharaj's lecture on brihad bhagavtamrita.
your servant
With all due respects to your lotus feet Manitabh pr, I never told any one to start worship of Lakshmi Narayana. I clearly mentioned that they appeared long back in our home and I can not leave them un attended. Talking about the bhaava that is for true vishnavas like you and not a pretender like me :)
The form is not important. If we worship even Radha Krishna or Gaur nitai and ask for material things then its not realm of vrindavan. When we say Krishna and Vishnu are non different then I dont see any problem in worshiping them.
Bhaav is at heart not on the form.
hare krsna pr
sorry pr i also didnt meant that .but form matters as our heart is attracted to a particular form. krsna and vishnu are non different in tattva but in rasa there is a huge difference.
ys
Hare Krishna Bhakta David Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! all glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Few days back heard in the lecture of His Holiness Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami Maharaja that usually we Rupanugas do not worship Gopal. Who wants to have parental rasa they worship Gopal.
i think for us it is better to worship Sri Sri Goura Nitay who have all Forms. and who do not accept any offense but only see our sincerity.
But You have to talk with senior Devotees who know You and they will say what to do.
I know Devotees who worship Gopal. They carry Him to all Yatras, parikramas.
Your servant,