HK
PAMHO
It would be very helpful if you could kindly answer on this discussion.
The following question was asked by a devotee but he couldn't find a appropriate answer:
"I am in mode of Ignorance and I want to advance to mode of Goodness and it is said that by Vaisnava association we can advance but what if the other Vaisnavas are in mode of Ignorance as well then neither me or others can advance. What is the point of associating with a devotee who is on the same platform as me or even lower, there is no point. Some devotees are just pretending to be Krishna Conscious by wearing a Tilak, Wearing vasinava clothes, they are just pretenders so by associating with them I cannot gain or advance in spiritual life so why should I associate with such kind of devotees "
This question is not asked by me some other devotee wanted to know the answer to their question and they couldn't find it so i posted it here.
Replies
I have to tell you that in my 30+ years in ISKCON, association with ignorant devotees has been my #1 reason of falling down, by allowing their bad attitudes and general unpleasantness to upset me and disrupt my mind causing me to lose focus on Krsna. From my personal experience, it is best to keep a distance between yourself and other devotees.
THE CONFIDENTIAL DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE FIRST-CLASS DEVOTEE.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE BUSINESS OF A DEVOTEE OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE BELOVED DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE SINCERE DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE BONA FIDE DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
RESPECT FOR THE AUTHORIZED DEVOTEES.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE SIGN OF A PURE DEVOTEE.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE LIFE OF A DEVOTEE OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE ADVANCED DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE GLORIES OF THE UNALLOYED DEVOTEES OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE ATTITUDE OF THE DEVOTEE OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO ASSOCIATE WITH DEVOTEES ?
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE LOVE OF A DEVOTEE OF LORD KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF BEING A SERVANT OF THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANT OF THE LORD, THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, SRI KRISHNA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT NOT TO COMMIT OFFENSESS AGAINST DEVOTEES ?
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
THE DEVOTEES OF VRNDAVANA.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. WHO ARE KANISHTHA-ADHIKARI, MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI and UTTAMA-ADHIKARI ? part 1.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. WHO ARE KANISHTHA-ADHIKARI, MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI and UTTAMA-ADHIKARI ? part 2.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. WHO ARE KANISHTHA-ADHIKARI, MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI and UTTAMA-ADHIKARI ? part 3.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. WHO ARE KANISHTHA-ADHIKARI, MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI and UTTAMA-ADHIKARI ? part 5.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. WHO ARE KANISHTHA-ADHIKARI, MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI and UTTAMA-ADHIKARI ? part 6.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
Q. 206. HOW DOES LORD KRISHNA TREAT HIS PURE DEVOTEES ?
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/perfectquestionsperfectanswer...
Q. 255. WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF DEVOTEES` ASSOCIATION ?
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/perfectquestionsperfectanswer...
Wearing a tilaka, holding chanting beads bag, etc are not going to ensure that one has become a pure devotee, but at least that one devotee who wears a Tilaka,and does his few chanting rounds, is following the regulative principles, chanting harinaam, serving the Lord in a way that the Lord desires.So he is making progress, and even if his past was dark, his future is bright.
The person asking the question above states that " I am in the mode of ignorance and I want to advance to mode of goodness". The person must first of all ask himself this question, how has he fallen in the mode of ignorance? Then he must ask "who am I" and find out who he really is.This is not easy.It is a mind shattering journey.If you already start judging other devotees, you are placing youself on a seat of judgement, without having acquired basics. Please do not associate with those you feel are not true devotees, as it will only confuse you, but please also do not call them pretenders, as they are learning a new way of living, by emulating other devotees.
It has been said that if one earnestly takes up the chanting of the holy name, Lord Krishna ensures that he gets to meet the true devotees and will not be misled.Of however one does not chant, and begins to just comment on other devotees, one is likely to sink deeper in one's own self-concocted ideas.
It is humbly advised, in the early stages, give yourself plenty of time to reason out what you are doing,do not hide under the carpet any unsolved questions, as they will grown into big doubts.
Haribol!
I am going to tell u what I have heard and read in KC.
Actually, you should keep a small distance from such devotees, because it will not be good for yourself. And, you should have association from strong devotees.
That's all I can tell you. Thank you very much.
HAre Krishna!
By giving we get sometimes more than what we would have got otherwise. Also, when we have more of anything and we are not insecure we want to share with others who are needy. We do not want to hold on to the precious treasure we have.The same is also true in our spiritual sadhana.
Hare Krsna Prabhu. I have taken these notes from the Krishna consciousness group to throw some light on your question.
Q. WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF ASSOCIATING WITH SAINTLY PERSONS ?
What is not possible to achieve in thousands of lives can be achieved in one moment if there is an opportunity to meet a saintly person. It is therefore enjoined in Vedic literature that one should always try to associate with saintly persons and try to disassociate oneself from the common man, because by one word of a saintly person one can be liberated from material entanglement. A saintly person has the power, because of his spiritual advancement, to give immediate liberation to the conditioned soul. Here Manu admits that all his doubts are now over because Kardama has very kindly described the different duties of individual souls.
(Srimad Bhagavatam---3:22:5----purport).
In Caitanya-caritāmṛta Lord Caitanya says that sādhu-saṅga (CC-2:22:83), the association of a great saintly person, is very important, because even if one is not advanced in knowledge, simply by association with a great saintly person one can immediately make considerable advancement in spiritual life. As a woman, as an ordinary wife, Devahūti became attached to Kardama Muni in order to satisfy her sense enjoyment and other material necessities, but actually she associated with a great personality. Now she understood this, and she wanted to utilize the advantage of the association of her great husband.
((Srimad Bhagavatam---3:23:54---purport).
A saintly person doesn't wish to speak to anyone and everyone, and he is therefore grave and silent. Generally a common man does not need to be advised. Unless one is prepared to take instructions, it is said that a saintly person should not address him, although sometimes, because of great kindness, a saintly person speaks to ordinary men. As for Prahlāda Mahārāja, however, since he was not a common, ordinary man, whatever questions he posed would have to be answered, even by a great and exalted personality. Therefore the saintly brāhmaṇa did not remain silent, but began to answer. These answers, however, were not concocted by him. This is indicated by the words yathā-śrutam, meaning "as I have heard from the authorities." In the paramparā system, when the questions are bona fide the answers are bona fide.
(Srimad Bhagavatam---7:13:23---purport).
Such gross sense enjoyers do not understand that the mind is more subtle than the sense organs and superior to them. Superior to the mind is the intelligence, and behind the intelligence is the false ego, which is far superior to the intelligence and which covers the spirit soul. Philosophical inquiry into the existence of the soul will remain a subject beyond the reach of these gross materialists. The gross sense enjoyers are actually to be counted among the animals, because man has more serious matters to attend to than just titillating his senses. Hence he is considered the most advanced among all the living entities. And indeed we do find that some men comprehend the gravity of human life. They carefully reject chaotic living, emulate the exemplary lives of saintly persons, and direct their lives in such a way as to fulfill the purpose of human life.
(Renunciation Through Wisdom).
The first step in learning the process of surrendering to the Lord is to surrender to the pure devotee of the Lord. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 20.120 and 122), we find this statement:
sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya
sei jīva nistare, māyā tāhāre chāḍaya
māyā-mugdha jīvera nāhi svataḥ kṛṣṇa-jñāna
jīvere kṛpāya kailā kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa
If the conditioned soul becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious by the mercy of saintly persons who voluntarily preach scriptural injunctions, he is liberated from the clutches of Māyā, who gives him up. The conditioned soul cannot revive his Kṛṣṇa consciousness by his own effort. But out of causeless mercy, Lord Kṛṣṇa compiled the Vedic literature and its supplements, the Purāṇas. All the Vedas and Purāṇas deal with the subject of Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Lord's own words in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.15), vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo: "By all the Vedas, I am to be known."
(Renunciation Through Wisdom).
Thanks Prabhu for sharing
Hare Krishna! PAMHO, AGT Srila Prabhuapada! While we need to seek the association of devotees, to progress in our Krishna C., isn't it also important to tend to other devotees? So you learn from advanced devotees, and at the same time, someone gave time and dedication to teach you what they learned so far. Isn't associating with same level or lower level devotees a way to reciprocate the kindness and mercy that you have be shown in your Krishna C. path? YS.
Thanks Mataji that is a really good statement
Hare Krishna dear Devotees please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
You are right dear Claire Mataji. in the beginning we hear from those simple Devotees and when we become little bit senior in Krishna Consciousness we start to see faults in those simple Devotees. which is not good, which shows that we are not grateful.
Your servant,
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