Hare Krsna!
It is said that we have an eternal relationship with Lord Krishna. But since this soul misuses his independence he takes birth within this material existence. right!!
So there is a chance for the soul to misuse his independence even if he has a relationship with Krsna. right!!
So my question, why it is said that, if one soul goes to Golaka Vrindaban after death (By doing spiritual practices/ Chanting the holy name of God), the soul does not have to take birth again???
So if we can depart from krsna in the very beginning (which is why we are here), so there might be chances to depart him again from Golaka (after our physical death). This seems to be a cyclic process.
If I am not clear about this, please let me know so that I can explain this in a better way..
Waiting for reply to understand in a better way..
Hari Bol!!
Replies
no no I understood as such. But I wanted to emphasize just in case someone who is interested in KC happens to read that post. We definitely don't want people to get the wrong idea lol.
I shall also pray that Krishna also gives you bhakti since that is the greatest gift in this world :)
The real truth in a sense that you have to realize that Srila Prabhupada was also preaching the truth. If you think that Srila Prabhupada was lying, then you have not understood the truth and you are making a great offense. The Jaiva Dharma is written by Bhaktivinod Thakur, so it's in the same guru parampara ... however, Srila Prabhupada was 100% correct in his preaching and his methods and this we have to support.
I'm sure you understand that, but it's needs emphasis because we can easily sway away.
Now for your second question, it is demoniac nature to do such things. If Lord Vishnu did not come to earth to enjoy with his devotees, these same things will happen. The difference this time, is that everyone can enjoy with the Lord. It's a golden opportunity to take darshan and contribute one's insignificant self to the service of the Lord.
That being said, the story of the cursing of Jay and Vijay also mentions that they were allowed to choose between 3 lives of demons or 7 lives of devotees. They chose demoniac lives because it was only 3 and they could return quickly. In the end we are all part of Krishna, we are the enjoyed and not the enjoyer... so does it matter how we are used, as long as we are used in a role of God's leela?
thank u so much radheji. i think now i understood
Hare Krishna Prabhus. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!
This should help out:
http://www.krishna.com/where-do-fallen-souls-fall
Simply put: it's futile to debate these questions because a) it doesn't bring us closer to Krishna, b) it raises the question that we can fall from Goloka, which doesn't make sense because if we are engaged in serving Krishna, how can that very doubt of not serving Krishna come into our minds. In the material world, devotee association is very important for spiritual progress because the influence of maya is very strong here; in the spiritual world where there is no maya and only devotee association, it doesn't make sense to be influenced by maya **unless Krishna wills it so** ... not a direct example, but think about Jaya and Vijaya - the guards of Vaikuntha. They were cursed by the 4 kumaras to take birth in the material world, but the hidden meaning behind that curse was the Lord Vishnu wanted to have some fun with his servants. In other words, the only reason Jaya and Vijaya fell was to serve their Lord, which means that they haven't really fallen to begin with.
It is stated (forgive me, I do not have a source), that the material world is only 1/4 of the God's creation. 3/4 is the kingdom of God. So to answer your question Rohit Prabhu (or at least somewhat addressing it), the population on this planet (and in the entire material creation) is very very very insignificant. But it is astounding to think that if we are so populated on one little planet among many different planets in one universe among billions of universes that equate to only 1/4 of God's creation, how unfortunate must we be to be in this material world.
Most of where "we fell from the spiritual kingdom" comes from is in Srila Prabhupada's letters. While I'm not doubting Srila Prabhupada's bhakti or his knowledge remotely, we have to also understand that it's natural to inquire about our origins (forgive me if this comes off insulting. I'm a servant of Srila Prabhupada, and I honestly have no intentions of criticizing Srila Prabhupada in any sort of way). Srila Prabhupada was preaching in an extremely materially enveloped country ... thus how successful would he have been if he stated that we never fell from God's abode, but we can now go to God's abode. Especially in this atheistic society, it would have gotten nowhere.
In the Jaiva Dharma (chapter 16) - by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur:
“Innumerable jivas appear from Sri Baladeva Prabhu to serve Vrndavana-vihari Sri Krsna as His eternal associates in Goloka Vrndavana, and others appear from Sri Sankarsana to serve the Lord of Vaikuntha, Sri Narayana, in the spiritual sky. Eternally relishing rasa, engaged in the service of their worshipable Lord, they always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always strive to please Bhagavan, and are always attentive to Him. Having attained the strength of cit-sakti, they are always strong. They have no connection with the material energy. In fact, they do not know if there is a bewildering energy called maya or not. Since they reside in the spiritual world, maya is very far away from them and does not affect them at all. Always absorbed in the bliss of serving their worshipable Lord, they are eternally liberated and are free from material happiness and distress. Their life is love alone, and they are not even conscious of misery, death or fear. “There are also innumerable, atomic, conscious jivas who emanate as rays in Karanodakasayi Maha-Visnu’s glance upon His mayasakti. Since these jivas are situated next to maya, they perceive her wonderful workings. Although they have all the qualities of the jivas that I have already described, because of their minute and marginal nature, they sometimes look to the spiritual world, and sometimes to the material world. In this marginal condition, the jiva is very weak because at that time he has not attained spiritual strength from the mercy of the object of his worship (seva-vastu). Among these unlimited jivas, those who want to enjoy maya become engrossed in mundane sense gratification and enter the state of nitya-baddha. On the other hand, the jivas who perform cidanusilanam of Bhagavan receive spiritual sakti (cid-bala) by His mercy, and enter the spiritual world. Baba! It is our great misfortune that we have forgotten our service to Sri Krsna, and have become bound in the shackles of maya. Only because we have forgotten our constitutional position, are we in this deplorable condition.”
In other words, we (as jivas in the material world) have emanated from the glance of Karanodakasayi Maha-Visnu. Since we are closer to maya, we see the effects of maya and are intrigued and forget Krishna and seek material pleasures.
It's not that Srila Prabhupad was incorrect, rather he had to twist the meaning to make it understandable. For example, when I was a kid, my dad introduced me to wheatgrass juice. The very first time, he would drink the entire cup and smiled. I thought it probably tasted fabulously, but when I took a sip ... it was nothing like it. Not the best example, but Srila Prabhupada sweetened the truth so it's more understandable and relate-able to us materially corrupted fools. Otherwise, the message wouldn't have gotten through as effectively. If my dad had made a sour face after drinking the cup, I probably wouldn't have drank the juice.
That being said, once again, I had no intentions of criticizing Srila Prabhupada whatsoever and if I came off like that, please accept the sincerest apologies from this foolish servant of yours.
Hare Krishna.
Your Servant,
Hare Krsna,
Thank you Radhe prabhuji for your effort to make us understand.
But it was not clear to me, may be due to my limited ability to understand this.
Is there anything I could help reiterate? Is there something specific that you are looking in an answer?
The short bullet points would probably be:
1) We, as jivas, are part of the marginal energy, thus we can choose between God and Maya. Those in the material world, chose maya and forgot God. Those who chose God went to God forever.
2) Those who go to Krishna, stay with Krishna forever.
3) The spiritual kingdom has no maya, so there really cannot be a chance of falling down
4) Srila Prabhupada is also correct. He simply stretched the truth so that we, extremely fallen fools, could also become attracted to God.
hare krsna. i too have a doubt regarding wat u both said. let someone please reply