Hare Krishna,Isn't there will be any possibility that if we are go back to Godhead, go back to Krishna and then we AGAIN have the same envious and fall back again to this material world?I asked some authority and get this answer... " Once we did a mistake we will learn from our mistake and we will not repeat it"'I am so confused as a living entity we cant remember our past so wouldn't we do the same mistakes?Please guide me....Hare Krishna
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
I have just read this discussion now. One thing is not clear to me. From what I have read from your discussions it seems that you mean that once we were playing with Radha and Krishna in goloka Vrindavana in the spiritual world, but we became envious and that cause our fallen in this material world. Is that right? Please let me know this very important point
Hare Krishna,
Thanks . Yes, I heard from the senior devotees, and they say that we all are once with Krishna in the spiritual world and that because we are envious, we want to feel how to be the owner, the Lord ... and therefore Krishna fulfill this wish and gave us this materal body ao that we can feel how is it to be the "Lord" of this material body... I am sorry if this is wrong... No offence! All glories to Guru and Gaurangga!
salvadores > Shamalah KandayahJanuary 20, 2009 at 3:37am
You say you heard that from senior devootees, but it is custom (in a spiritual community) to quote from vedic scriptures and authorities like the mahajanas to support what we say.
So my question is: where is it stated in vedic scriptures that we were in the spiritual world playing with Radha and Krishna,..? you have to quote from scriptures in order to support your statements...! This is the vedic system, otherwise it is just our fantasy or imagination, Srila Jiva Goswami state that we have 4 kinds of defects which impede us to understand trascendental matters.
This is a very important point (Where do we come from) it is not appropriate to handle it in this way, because people may become confused. We should be very very carefull, these are very delicate questions...! I am opened to a discussion, please do no think I want to reproach you, I say this to all the people who partecipated to this issue.
I am sure you are a genuine researcher. Haribol...!
All glories to Guru and Gaurangga. First of all I would like to ask forgiveness from you and others. Thanks a lot for reminding me. Yes, I realised my mistake for not quoting about it. Prabhu, here is one of the verses in Sri Sri Siksastaka left by Lord Caitanya:
ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram
patitam mam visame bhavambudhau
krpaya tava pada-pankaja-
sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya
" O son of Maharaja Nanda {Krsna}, I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of birth and death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet."
- Sri Sri Siksastaka, 5th verse-
I hope this meet your requirements. Lord Caitanya is a Mahajan. Hope this verse will help you to understand what I meant, that we were once with Krishna in the spiritual world.
Dear prabhuji, I am not a researcher, but I am just a confused soul who is trying my best to search the light of truth and serve Krishna with love. I am so sorry if I had offended you or to any devotees of Lord Krishna.
Jay Guru and Gaurangga!!!
Shamalah Kandayah
salvadores > Shamalah KandayahJanuary 29, 2009 at 8:05pm
Yes, the verse you quote says that we have fallen from the spiritual realm, but it does not specify that we were in Goloka Vrndavan with Radha and Krsna, that is just our idea that we derive from such verse. Actually there is not any verse in all the Vedic literature that clearly says we were with Radha and Krsna in Goloka Vrndavan. All the previous acarya from Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya never said that nor Srila Prabhupada has ever said that.
He never wrote that in any of his books. He uses many times words such as “back to Godhead” or “our constitutional position” etc… Those statementes can make us think that, but that does not mean at all that we were in Goloka and we fall from that place.
I know it is hard to accept at first. Just like a child, when he becomes a little boy or girl may ask to the parents how do we take birth? And genereally parents say that we were brought by a stork or babies are found under a couliflower because the boy is too young to understand what actually took place. Simirarly Srila Prabhupada behave in the same way with his young children. When the children grow up however the can know, if you really want to know the truth, please read Jaiva Dharma, written by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur one of the most prominent previous acarya of Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. From that book you will read that yes, we have fallen from the spiritual world but from the marginal position which is called Tatastha.
Tatastha position is a place between the spiritual world and material world like the shore, it is a very narrow line between the sea and the land, sometimes that line is covered by the sea and sometimes not. Tha land is compared to the spiritual world and the sea to the material world. We come from that place:
jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa
krsnera tatastha sakti ‘bhedabheda prakasa
The costitutional nature of the jiva is to be an eternal servant of Sri krsna. He is the marginal potency of Krsna and is a manifastationsimultaneously one with Him, and differente from Him.
C.C. Madhiya 20.108
We have come from tatastha-sakti, from a manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu called Karanabdisayi Visnu, who is situated on the marginal line, in the Karanabdhi (Causal Ocean). The jivas are not coming to this world from Goloka Vrndavana, nor are they coming from Vaikuntha. They are coming form the marginal line, from the glance of Karanabdhisayi Visnu. Among them, those who look towards Vaikuntha are liberated, and they go there at once without delay. Conversely, those who look toward this world will come here.
Jivas are independent because Krsna has made them so. This independence is like a special jewel, and the jivas can use it properly or misuse it. If they using it well, they will quickly go towards Vaikuntha, and if they misuse it they will have to suffer.
Here is an example. If you have a sharp sword or knife and you drop some very small and round mustard seeds on it so that they falls in the middle of the sword, some will fall over to one side and some will fall to the other. The jiva has got some independence to go here or there. This is not the fault of Krsna, but rather it is their independence to look here and there. If they look towards Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana, Yogamaya will at once help them and they will go there. On the other hand, those who look towards the material world will be attracted by Mahamaya. Krsna is not at fault here.
my opinion, if we are very strong in our faith,we never fall down,for example the small baby every time fall down ,becouse he is weak,when we are weak ,or our faith in God is not really true ,that is problem for us we will fall down again ,and again until we understand who we are.And after ,when we become pure souls ,we will know that God is our abode.Only one way ,go back to home,from our journey.HARE KRISHNA....:)
I have this from Sankarshan Das Adhikari as his answer to same question.
hope it will be of help- Pl understand : "work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world,..." thats the key.
He replied:
Just as it is said, "Once burned, twice shy", once we realize our mistake of giving up an eternal existence full of bliss and knowledge in the spiritual world in exchange for rotting in the cycle of birth and death in the material world and then work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world, we will not make the same mistake again. This is why is it said that once we return to the spiritual world we will never come back to this material world.
Hare Krishna prabhu,
Thanks a lot for the reply. So it means tht because we work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world we well not be falling again to this material world again though, we, souls won't remember the past? I hope what his grace said is true. I am always in doubt and this caused me to feel so sinful towards everythg i do and towards others. I really need guidance from others so that I can serve His devotees sincerely and faithfully. Pls forgive me for any words that i said is offensive. Hare Krishna. All glories to Guru and Gaurangga!
First of all going back to Godhead is not simple and easy,
We will be tamed and trained before we reach the Lord’s abode. Hence once we reach his abode we will be so much satisfied in loving Krishna that we will not get back the attraction for material pleasure which is inferior.
So have complete faith in Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada and pray for his mercy along with Srimati Radharani’s mercy.
Since Lord himself assures you, there cannot be any other best assurance.
So happily chant Lord’s name and leave the result to Lord himself.
Your well-wisher,
Manjunath P H
manjunath.ph@gmail.com
Bangalore
Replies
Thanks . Yes, I heard from the senior devotees, and they say that we all are once with Krishna in the spiritual world and that because we are envious, we want to feel how to be the owner, the Lord ... and therefore Krishna fulfill this wish and gave us this materal body ao that we can feel how is it to be the "Lord" of this material body... I am sorry if this is wrong... No offence! All glories to Guru and Gaurangga!
So my question is: where is it stated in vedic scriptures that we were in the spiritual world playing with Radha and Krishna,..? you have to quote from scriptures in order to support your statements...! This is the vedic system, otherwise it is just our fantasy or imagination, Srila Jiva Goswami state that we have 4 kinds of defects which impede us to understand trascendental matters.
This is a very important point (Where do we come from) it is not appropriate to handle it in this way, because people may become confused. We should be very very carefull, these are very delicate questions...! I am opened to a discussion, please do no think I want to reproach you, I say this to all the people who partecipated to this issue.
I am sure you are a genuine researcher. Haribol...!
All glories to Guru and Gaurangga. First of all I would like to ask forgiveness from you and others. Thanks a lot for reminding me. Yes, I realised my mistake for not quoting about it. Prabhu, here is one of the verses in Sri Sri Siksastaka left by Lord Caitanya:
ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram
patitam mam visame bhavambudhau
krpaya tava pada-pankaja-
sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya
" O son of Maharaja Nanda {Krsna}, I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of birth and death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet."
- Sri Sri Siksastaka, 5th verse-
I hope this meet your requirements. Lord Caitanya is a Mahajan. Hope this verse will help you to understand what I meant, that we were once with Krishna in the spiritual world.
Dear prabhuji, I am not a researcher, but I am just a confused soul who is trying my best to search the light of truth and serve Krishna with love. I am so sorry if I had offended you or to any devotees of Lord Krishna.
Jay Guru and Gaurangga!!!
Shamalah Kandayah
He never wrote that in any of his books. He uses many times words such as “back to Godhead” or “our constitutional position” etc… Those statementes can make us think that, but that does not mean at all that we were in Goloka and we fall from that place.
I know it is hard to accept at first. Just like a child, when he becomes a little boy or girl may ask to the parents how do we take birth? And genereally parents say that we were brought by a stork or babies are found under a couliflower because the boy is too young to understand what actually took place. Simirarly Srila Prabhupada behave in the same way with his young children. When the children grow up however the can know, if you really want to know the truth, please read Jaiva Dharma, written by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur one of the most prominent previous acarya of Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. From that book you will read that yes, we have fallen from the spiritual world but from the marginal position which is called Tatastha.
Tatastha position is a place between the spiritual world and material world like the shore, it is a very narrow line between the sea and the land, sometimes that line is covered by the sea and sometimes not. Tha land is compared to the spiritual world and the sea to the material world. We come from that place:
jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa
krsnera tatastha sakti ‘bhedabheda prakasa
The costitutional nature of the jiva is to be an eternal servant of Sri krsna. He is the marginal potency of Krsna and is a manifastationsimultaneously one with Him, and differente from Him.
C.C. Madhiya 20.108
We have come from tatastha-sakti, from a manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu called Karanabdisayi Visnu, who is situated on the marginal line, in the Karanabdhi (Causal Ocean). The jivas are not coming to this world from Goloka Vrndavana, nor are they coming from Vaikuntha. They are coming form the marginal line, from the glance of Karanabdhisayi Visnu. Among them, those who look towards Vaikuntha are liberated, and they go there at once without delay. Conversely, those who look toward this world will come here.
Jivas are independent because Krsna has made them so. This independence is like a special jewel, and the jivas can use it properly or misuse it. If they using it well, they will quickly go towards Vaikuntha, and if they misuse it they will have to suffer.
Here is an example. If you have a sharp sword or knife and you drop some very small and round mustard seeds on it so that they falls in the middle of the sword, some will fall over to one side and some will fall to the other. The jiva has got some independence to go here or there. This is not the fault of Krsna, but rather it is their independence to look here and there. If they look towards Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana, Yogamaya will at once help them and they will go there. On the other hand, those who look towards the material world will be attracted by Mahamaya. Krsna is not at fault here.
I have this from Sankarshan Das Adhikari as his answer to same question.
hope it will be of help- Pl understand : "work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world,..." thats the key.
He replied:
Just as it is said, "Once burned, twice shy", once we realize our mistake of giving up an eternal existence full of bliss and knowledge in the spiritual world in exchange for rotting in the cycle of birth and death in the material world and then work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world, we will not make the same mistake again. This is why is it said that once we return to the spiritual world we will never come back to this material world.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
hope this helps you
kind rgds
n thanks fr gvng me this oportunity to serve.
kanai thakura dasa
Thanks a lot for the reply. So it means tht because we work diligently to regain our original position in the spiritual world we well not be falling again to this material world again though, we, souls won't remember the past? I hope what his grace said is true. I am always in doubt and this caused me to feel so sinful towards everythg i do and towards others. I really need guidance from others so that I can serve His devotees sincerely and faithfully. Pls forgive me for any words that i said is offensive. Hare Krishna. All glories to Guru and Gaurangga!
We will be tamed and trained before we reach the Lord’s abode. Hence once we reach his abode we will be so much satisfied in loving Krishna that we will not get back the attraction for material pleasure which is inferior.
So have complete faith in Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada and pray for his mercy along with Srimati Radharani’s mercy.
Since Lord himself assures you, there cannot be any other best assurance.
So happily chant Lord’s name and leave the result to Lord himself.
Your well-wisher,
Manjunath P H
manjunath.ph@gmail.com
Bangalore
-
3
-
4
-
5
-
6
-
7
of 7 Next