Wouldn't we fall again? Please help me...

Hare Krishna,Isn't there will be any possibility that if we are go back to Godhead, go back to Krishna and then we AGAIN have the same envious and fall back again to this material world?I asked some authority and get this answer... " Once we did a mistake we will learn from our mistake and we will not repeat it"'I am so confused as a living entity we cant remember our past so wouldn't we do the same mistakes?Please guide me....Hare Krishna

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  • Hare Krishna Dear Devotees. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada who have so mercifully given us the teachings of the previous acharyas and Lord Chaitanya. I would try to answer this as shortly as i can...actually, this topic have no end. Srila Prabhupada always says in his books that we were once with Krishna in the spiritual world and when we decided to enjoy like Krishna, we came to this world. As a member of ISKCOn, we firmly believe what Prabhupada said but because outsiders dont say us fanatics and blind followers, we must know what we're following. Here are some of the proofs from the scriptures which proves the above said:

    "O friend, do you remember the unknown friend, the Soul? Leaving Me, searching for a position, he went away, absorbed in worldly enjoyment."* (SB 4.28.53)

    Srila Prabhupäda comments on this verse,
    "This is an explanation of how the living entity falls down into this material world. In the spiritual world there is no duality, nor is there hate... When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord. In this way the living entities fall into the material world. In the Prema-vivarta it is said*:

    "The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. When the living entity wants to become Krishna Himself or imitate Krishna, he falls down into the material world. Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His sväàça expansion (Paramätmä), keeps company with the living entity. In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead.

    First Vrajanätha says:
    In the svarüpa of the jiva there is no product of mäyä. This has to be accepted. The nature of the jiva can be influenced by mäyä. This I have also understood. (Jaiva Dharma Ch.15 by HDG Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur)

    "From the knowledge of that sambandha tattva we have learnt that the jéva, having forgotten his eternal relation with Kåñëa, has fallen into the sea of saàsära (worldly life with succession of births) full of three kinds of scorching troubles and has been suffering from much distress. Deliberating on the means how that suffering can be prevented, we have known that if the relation referred to above be re-established, all troubles will be removed and the highest bliss achieved." (Çré Caitanya Çikñämåtam, p. 43)
    "The jéva has forgotten that he is the eternal servitor of Kåñëa; for this fault mäyä has tied him at the neck." (Çré Caitanya Çikñämåtam, p. 44)
    "If we adopt the line of pure knowledge, it will be clear that jéva is not the eternal inhabitant of this sorrowful world. The present body of jéva is not his eternal body... Just as God has His svarüpa-vigraha, so jéva has eternal cit-vigraha. That cit body is manifested in Vaikuëöha. Being in material world, it is hidden under two coverings... The conceit [the dictionary meaning of conceit is"thought"] of cit body of jéva which was existent prior to its contact with matter is just and natural. But after the contact with matter, the conceit of self has become foreign and unjust." (Çré Caitanya Çikñämåtam, pp. 156-157)
    The last passage is very interesting. Bhaktivinoda Thäkura here describes the original spiritual body of the jiva and explicitly states "that cit body is manifested in Vaikuntha." In the very next sentence he states that this body now "being in the material world" is covered by the subtle and gross material bodies. And just in case there is any doubt about what is meant, he goes on to speak of "the cit body of jiva which was existent prior to its contact with matter." And he already said "that cit body is manifested in Vaikuntha."

    In Srila Bhaktisiddhänta's purport to text 44 of Brahma-samhitä we read:

    "When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha-çakti) forget the service of Krsna, they are confined in the mundane prison house, the citadel of Durgä... When, luckily, the forgetfulness of Govinda on the part of the imprisoned jivas is remarked by them by coming in contact with self-realized souls and their natural aptitude for the loving service of Krsna is aroused, Durgä herself then becomes the agency of their deliverance by the will of Govinda... Jéva is a spiritual atomic part of Krsna. When he forgets his service of Kåñëa he is at once deflected by the attracting power of mäyä in this world, who throws him into the whirlpool of mundane fruitive activity (karma) by confining him in a gross body constituted by the five material elements..."

    So it would appear that Çréla Prabhupäda, Bhaktisiddhänta, and Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura are in agreement on the fundamental points-that the jéva now in the conditioned state is originally the eternal servant of Kåñëa in the direct and active sense of the word. Nevertheless, the jéva, being marginal, has the ability to make a choice. The conditioned jéva is a jéva that has made a deliberate choice to leave the service of Kåñëa. The state of conditioning is called eternal because the choice that led to it was made before the jéva's entrance into material space-time. By the same free will that brought it to the material world, the jéva may literally regain its original position of service.
  • No, once u go to back to godhead than there is no possibility to come back
  • Jai Radhe. AGTSP

    I think your inquiry is very intellignet I found an exerpt from an article I hope this helps and your quotations from the Brahma Samhita shows a lot of insight Haribol!

    Srila Jiva Gosvami has clarified the understanding of the two kinds of jivas. He states:
    tad evam ananta eva jivakhyas tatasthah saktayah
    tatra tasam varga-dvayam
    eko vargo 'nadita eva bhagavad-unmukhah
    anyas tv anadita eva bhagavat-paranmukhah
    svabhavatas tadiya-jnana-bhavat tadiya-jnanabhavac ca
    (Paramatma Sandarbha - Anuccheda 47 text 1)
    ["Thus the Lord's marginal potency is comprised of individual spirit souls. Although these individual spirit souls are limitless in number, they may be divided into two groups: 1) the souls who, from time immemorial, are favorable to the Supreme Lord; and 2) the rebellious souls who, from time immemorial, are averse to the Supreme Lord. One group is aware of the Lord's glories, and the other group is not aware of them."]
    There are unlimited jivas emanating from tatastha-sakti, and from there, some have turned away from Krsna. They turned away from Krsna and chose to enter the material world.
    As mentioned above, the conditioned souls are coming from Karanodakasayi Visnu, from His divine light-filled glance. From that light, Sri Krsna in His form as Sri Visnu, gives them the intelligence and freedom to consider, "What should I do?" There is a very fine, imaginary line between the transcendental world and the material world. Krsna gave the jivas some freedom, saying, "From here you can see this world of maya, and you can also see towards the spiritual world. What you will choose depends upon you. I am giving you a moment to choose."
    Certain jivas looked toward the spiritual world and were attracted. Yogamaya at once gave them the power to go to the spiritual world and serve the Lord there for eternity. Others looked towards this world. They were attracted and decided to relish it.
    This material world is like a dream-place (svapna-sthana). Try to understand this. It seems that we are now in full worldly knowledge. It seems that we are awake and that someone else is fast asleep without dreaming at all, but actually this place is like a dream-place. We are seeing a dream. We are not in such deep sleep that we are fully unconscious, because we are part of the spiritual conscious substance (cid-vastu) even when we are not liberated.
    All in the Divine Seed
    Our constitution is such that everything of our spiritual identity is already present in the soul, in seed form. In this regard an analogy is given of a mango seed. *[See endnote 7]
    If you plant a mango seed in fertile land and give it water, gradually a sprout will manifest. After a few days some leaves will come, then some branches, and after a few years the plant will become large. At that time there will be so many leaves, branches, flowers, and manjaris (buds). Then, one day, mangos will begin to appear, and after some time these mangos will ripen and become sweet and juicy.
    By constitution, everything about the mango tree is present in the mango seed. All the potencies of the tree's leaves, branches, and fruits are present there. The number of leaves and the sweetness or sourness of the fruits are already in the seed, but they have not yet manifest.
    Similarly, the full form of the soul is present in his constitution. Everything is there in the soul, even though the pure transcendental form has not yet developed and was never previously developed. The jivas were in the body of Karanodakasayi Visnu in seed form, and when they came out through His glance, some fell in maya. To understand these truths clearly, kindly read Sri Brahma-samhita very carefully under the guidance of a pure Vaisnava. You will be able to see vividly all these truths there.
    Eternal Message of the Guru-parampara
    If the jiva had fallen from there, from Goloka Vrndavana, Bhagavad-gita would be false. How? Bhagavad-gita states, Yad gatva na nivartante, tad dhama parama mama (Gita, 15.6). What is the meaning? By practicing bhakti-yoga for thousands upon thousands of births, one is liberated and has a chance to go to that spiritual realm. And he will never return from there. The transcendental souls who are serving Krsna there are eternally liberated. Those from this world who are now liberated by practicing bhakti-yoga are serving Him in Vaikuntha, in His forms like Rama, Nrsimha, Kalki, or Vamana, or in Goloka as Mathuresa or Krsna. They have no chance to return. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has also written this.
    [*Endnote 6
    "The Lord of the mundane world, Maha-Visnu, possesses thousands of thousands of avataras as His thousands of thousands of plenary portions. He is the creator of thousands of thousands of individual souls." (Sri Brahma-Samhita, text 11)]
    "The innumerable jivas as spiritual particles emanating from the Oversoul, in the form of pencil-rays of effulgence, have no relation with the mundane world when they come to know themselves to be the eternal servants of the Supreme Lord. They are then incorporated into the realm of Vaikuntha." (Sri Brahma Samhita, purport to text 16)]
    "Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of the souls' essential nature that, "I am Krsna's servant.' This avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was in the tatastha position." (Jaiva Dharma ch. 16)
    "It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres" (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Bhakti-tattva Viveka 2.4)]
    [Endnote 7
    "In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity, there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully only when the living entity goes back to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant, as the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed." (Letter to: Rupanuga, Los Angeles 8 August, 1969).]
    • "So my question is, the jivas forget WHAT relationship with Krishna? If we were in the marginal line between the spiritual world and the material world (and as we all came together to that line), HOW COME we can have different thoughts of going to Spiritual or going to Material world? WHY, why must we have such different thoughts, such remembering.... it's not question about our free will that Krishna gave but how come we, though came at one time came at same place from the same source, can have such different thoughts?"

      And as far as I know the constitutional nature of the living entity is to serve the lord Krishna, that is the nature which we forgot.

      • Hare Krishna Bhakti Krishnalila and Bhakta Slavadores,

        Thanks for the replies both of you gave. Well, after reading them, after both of you gave me a lot of examples (and also by other devotees like Subhal Sakha Das) i think yes you are right.
        Well please accpet my humble obeisances and please forgive me for any offence that i did. I am a confused soul.

        All glories to guru and Gaurangga!!!

        Jay Radha Syamasundara!!!

        Das anu das,

        Shamalah Kandayah =D
  • Hare Krishna to all the dear devotees of Krishna,

    All glories to Guru and Gaurangga.

    My only understanding is that Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead planned all of these... He came to this world to bring us back by doing a lot of lilas here with different incarnations (so we can remember HIM). He came as Gaurangga Mahaprabhu to bring us back by delivering the chanting of HARE KRISHNA, HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA, HARE HARE; HARE RAMA, HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA, HARE HARE... Just as an advice to ALL and to MYSELF.... just serve Krishna and HIS DEVOTEES (though you don't know who is right who is wrong) with LOVE. HE will GUIDE us.... Just try not to make any offence by thinking this person is right, this person is wrong, this thing is right, this thing is wrong, this person is good, this person is bad, etc... and be offended. Just AVOID doing aparadh, avoid making offence to HIS DEVOTEES (though you dont know is the right one). KRISHNA will understand you... JUST CHANT HIS HOLY NAMES WITHOUT OFFENCE. Keep in your heart and mind LOVE and DEVOTION, this will help all of us... The main purpose of our life is NOT to reach the SUPREME ABODE, but to SERVE KRISHNA AND HIS DEVOTEES with LOVE. ALWAYS keep LOVE and DEVOTION in our heart and throw the other things far away from our life. Preach others by giving them the chance to taste the sweet names of KRISHNA. Give them the chance to do these simple devotional service they can do (Hearing, Chanting, and remembering) with LOVE.... LOVE LOVE LOVE.... That's all.... Our mind can be the best friend and the greatest enemy, so you choose it.... CHOOSE the right one by always THINK POSITIVE..... ACCEPT LOVE and YOU'll Get EVERYTHING, YOU'll GET KRISHNA....

    Please forgive this tiny fallen soul,


    Das anu das,

  • Dear Shamalah mataji

    Hare Krishna

    Dandavat Pranaams.

    Srila Prabhupada ki jaya.

    I am fallen conditioned soul in this miserable material world- its like being in an house on fire- and all I can think of is to get out of this hellish situation- my top most priority!

    Getting out of this davanaal is zillion times much better than staying in it.!

    So I just concentrate on this effort with my sadhana and the prayers n well wishes of the Vaishnavas.

    My humble advice to you is to concentrate on your chanting, saying it aloud and hearing it most attentively and ensuring your lifestyle is satvic so that you can serve the Vaishnavas patiently and offenselessly -such that they are pleased and bestow their causeless mercy of Bhakti whenever they choose!

    Ultimately Bhakti keeps you in your original constitutional position as eternal loving servitor of Sri Radhashyamsunder.

    Pray for Bhakti, become a deserving servant of the Vaishnavas and Sri Krishna as Paramatma will lovingly guide you out of this material world- He loves you so much that inspite of the envy – He is with us constantly, guiding us and helping us!.

    Even Sri Mayadevi will ensure that you will get all the help and facilities to be successful.

    Please be fearless and live in the present!

    Your present situation of being in an house on fire needs your complete attention!

    Chant n be Happy

    Your servant in service to Sri Guru and Lord Gauranga

    Kanai Thakura das
    • Hare Krishna Kanai prabhu,

      Please accept my humble obeisances.

      Thanks a lot for the advices. I really appreciated them and I will follow your advices. It's really touching to hear it. You are 100% right. Yes, Krishna is guiding me whenever I feel of giving up this life. Thank you very, very much.... Yes, I'll serve Krishna and his devotees the level best I could, and I'll chant HIS HOLY NAMES AS LOUD AS I CAN & as SiNCERE AS I CAN! Thanks again, prabhuji....

      Please bless me dear devotees of Krishna so that I can serve Krishna and all of you with LOVE and DEVOTION and OFFENSIVELY....

      Jay Radhe Syamasundar!

      All glories to Guru and Gaurangga!

      Servant of the servant of the servant Krishna,

      Shamalah Kandayah
  • Hare Krishna,
    Pls do that mataji...
    i am so confused already...........
    Oh Radhe Syam!!!
  • Back in the spiritual world we will have an understanding about the material world and how to think to be apart from Krishna gets you entrance into it. The thing is, the way you get out is by coming to full realization how wonderful Krishna is and to become envious would be unlikely. Just like here in the material world sometime you develop a negative energy toward somebody but through time opportunity allows you to get to know better this person and you caste off the negative energy you were holding. In the same way, we are holding this energy, this feeling toward Krishna that will be rectified. Once rectified, why would you again become envious of Krishna? You will have higher understanding and realization and love how exquisitely wonderful He is, and He doesn't hold a grudge. He is full in renunciation, one of six opulences when possessed in complete fullnss, defines who is Bhagavan. Bhagavan Sri Krishna never holds a grudge! ; - )
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