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So we are reading from Canto Five, Chapter Thirteen entitled "Rahugana Converses with Jada Bharata,' Text number 22.

na hy adbhutam tvac-caranabja-renubhir
hatamhaso bhaktir adhoksaje 'mala
mauhurtikad yasya samagamac ca me
dustarka-mulo 'pahato 'vivekah

Translation: It is not at all wonderful that simply by being covered by the dust of your lotus feet, one immediately attains the platform of pure devotional service to Adhoksaja, which is not available even to great demigods like Brahma. By associating with you just for a moment, I am now freed from all argument, false prestige and lack of discrimination, which are the roots of entanglement in the material world. Now I am free from all these problems.

Purport: Association with pure devotees certainly frees one from the material clutches. This is certainly true of King Rahugana's association with Jada Bharata. King Rahugana was immediately freed from the misgivings of material association. The arguments offered by pure devotees to their disciples are so convincing that even a dull-headed disciple is immediately enlightened with spiritual knowledge."

HH Candramauli Swami: So in this particular pastime, and particularly this verse, really indicates the process of success in spiritual life. King Rahugana is a pious king, he is quite pious. In fact his journey, which we read about here, he is on his way Kapila asrama in order to take mercy and darsana of the Lord. So he is not just a materialistic king. He is a king and because of him being a king he has got all the qualities that make up a leader in the sense that he's a little bit proud of his position. He is a little proud. And therefore he is identifying himself in the role of a king. He is being enlightened by Jada Bharata.

Jada Bharata was carrying the King on his palanquin, but he wasn't carrying him properly, at least according to the King's understanding. According to Jada Bharata's understanding it was perfect because he was trying to not step on ants while he was carrying the palanquin. This is the nature of a Vaisnava. A soft hearted Vaisnava sees the soul within the heart of all living entities, no matter what that entities body may be.

So therefore he was carefully avoiding stepping on ants, but it didn't work for carrying palanquins. He was shaking the palanquin, bouncing it. The King became very disturbed and started to insult Jada Bharata. I am kind of narrating more or less the essential portions, there is a lot more and in that insult Jada Bharata just listened and then part of that insult he was saying, "You know, you look strong and stout but you are not doing your service nicely. You are quite fat, you look healthy. But still you can't carry this palanquin."

Jada Bharata turned everything around and said, "Actually you are not talking about me. You are talking about my body and that is actually not me."

So he enlightened him, very carefully and systematically, in the difference between the soul and the body, difference between the individual person and the body one inhabits. And he turned it around and explained "Actually you think you are king;y ou are not a king! That's just the role you are playing. Actually in one life I may be the king and you may be the palanquin carrier! And you may be carrying my palanquin!"

So when King Rahaguna heard such transcendental knowledge in such a pure way coming from this simple, apparently ordinary personality, he listened, his mind was attracted. He listened very carefully. And then he realized this person is not some ordinary person. So he immediately got down off his palanquin and paid full obeisances.

And then he wanted to know who he was. And of course Jada Bharata explained more and King Rahugana replied in so many ways, on a practical, philosophical and a very pious understanding of the goal of life. But after listening all of those arguments, now the key point here is that, Jada Bharata was being somewhat criticized, somewhat put in a very menia. . . he was not being glorified by this king. In fact he was being criticized but still he tolerated it. So this is the nature of a great soul.

Prabhupada says, the quality of a great soul, their outstanding quality is that they can tolerate any circumstances no matter how difficult it may be. This is how you can tell one of the major outstanding qualities of a great soul, tolerance. Tolerance beyond the level of what we understand as tolerance.

Usually when you approach a saintly person for knowledge, for understanding or even for service, you approach in a humble way. But it took some time before Rahugana's humility started to manifest. And then Jada Bharata started to open up and he was giving transcendental knowledge. Before that he was just tolerating the King's harassment.

And sometimes we think if someone is trying to give transcendental knowledge and the other person is not appreciating, then what's the use? But Jada Bharata somehow he tolerated all the negativity that was coming his way just to save the king, just to save the king and to enlighten him in transcendental knowledge. This is the quality of a great soul. He was friendly, he was merciful and he was very, very tolerant.

It says here in the purport and Prabhupada gives little bit of an understanding of the nature of a great soul in relationship to a disciple. He says that the arguments of a great soul or a pure devotee are so convincing and so spiritually powerful, and they go directly to the heart so that even a dull headed disciple can make advancement, and can understand.

So what is that dull headedness? Dull headedness is continual attachment to material sense gratification or we might use another word, continual endeavors to find happiness through material activities. This is a sign of dull headedness.

Srila Prabhupada was talking with his devotees; it was a morning walk, very long discussion. And the discussion topic was there is no happiness in the material world. And you know, if you listen to Prabhupada and his disciples, they would many times challenge Prabhupada, in a very respectful way, but they never held back in their challenges. (laughs).

So one disciple said to Prabhupada, "You know Prabhupada we understand that actually in the mode of goodness there is happiness, it actually says in the sastra that the mode of goodness is characterized by happiness." And Prabhupada said, "Yes, but it is also characterized by knowledge. And that knowledge tells you there is no happiness." (laughter)

So that's the understanding of the knowledge principle. And that dull headedness is constantly being worked on by the pure devotees. Because Prabhupada said unless one is convinced not just theoretically but within their heart and minds that there is no happiness in this material world, spiritual life has not yet begun. It really has not begun. We are practicing to really begin the process of spiritual life.

But even if we still have that attachment to material life and still think in some maybe insignificant way that there is some happiness in this material world, the antidote for that is described here - the association of great souls:

satam prasangan mama virya-samvido
bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah
(SB 3.25.25)

The association of great souls, hearing and chanting the glories of the Lord, is nectar for the ear and it purifies the heart and it gives one an attachment to the process of devotional service.

Again in the Srimad Bhagavatam in the First Canto Suta Goswami says

susrusoh sraddadhanasya vasudeva-katha-rucih
syan mahat-sevaya viprah punya-tirtha-nisevanat
(SB 1.2.16)

Service to pure devotee is the best of all service and by that service one gets awarded affinity, one gets attraction, attachment to hear and chant the glories of the Lord and that's what we are looking for. We want that. We want to become so attracted to hearing and chanting the glories of the Lord that if we don't have that opportunity we feel disturbed. If we are not absorbed in the mood of trying to hear and chant the glories of the Lord we don't find the happiness we are looking for.

So that is the result of serving great souls. It's such a powerful process, that the association of great souls purifies the heart. But what is that association? Taken a little bit deeper, the association is not physical proximity. Physical proximity is available. But association really means to hear in a submissive way the words of the great devotees and to also want to render service. These are the principles that make up association. Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,

tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinah
(BG 4.34)

By submission, the mood of service and desire and inquiry one is associating with Krishna through His pure devotees. That's the principle. So that's what a devotee is thinking, how to access that association.

Prabhupada uses the example of a flea sitting on the king, but what does the flea have to do with the king? Is the flea is actually associating with the king?

So physical proximity is not association. And we've had that also. But real association is to develop that eagerness, that enthusiastic mentality to want to hear the glories of the Lord spoken by the pure devotees of the Lord.

'sadhu-sanga', 'sadhu-sanga' - sarva-sastre kaya
lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi haya
(CC Madhya 22.54)

Through the mood of hearing great souls as described in this verse which I believe is spoken by Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself, he uses the word lava-matra. Now lava-matra Prabhupada describes is 1/11th of a second. If you take a second and divide into that many parts, one of those parts would be considered a lava-matra. So the emphasis on that simply by associating with great souls in 1/11th of a second one can become completely purified of all material attachments and material desires. So Prabhupada says that is achieving success.

So then we may ask the question and the question does come up, well I have been doing that. I have had a lot of 'lava-matra's' right! I can even count my lava-matra's. (laughs) but you know where is my purified heart? I don't feel like I've reached that stage.

Prabhupada was asked that question. I think if you read Prabhupada's books completely and listen to all his lectures, there wasn't any question that Prabhupada wasn't asked.

Sometimes we say is it in Prabhupada's books, is it in his lectures? If you research you can find every principle. Prabhupada covered everything, it's amazing. And I think it was Krishna's arrangement so we wouldn't have any doubts in the future about any of the principles of devotional service.

So the question came up, I remember it was Pancadravida Maharaj, he asked Prabhuada that question. He said, "But Prabhupada we are associating with you, we get so much of your association yet we haven't reached the level of bhakta."

Prabhupada answered in a very interesting way. He said, "When the wood is wet, it doesn't light." If you have wet wood, and try to start a fire, it doesn't light. "But when the wood is dry, as soon as it comes in contact with fire, it immediately catches fire."

Then Prabhupada explained that we have to keep going, keep hearing and hearing and hearing until that consciousness manifests. So that drying of the wood is the constant hearing in the association of pure devotees and that will gradually purify one's consciousness.

Now sometimes we see that even a person who may have very little association of a great soul, but that one bit of association changes their whole life. I was just thinking, it was one incident where Srila Prabhupada was travelling, I am not sure exactly where, but Prabhupada mentions it on one tape lecture, that there was one man he met in the airport and the man recognized Srila Prabhupada, had never met him before, offered his obeisances. Prabhupada spoke to him and told him open up a preaching center. And that was the only association he ever had with Prabhupada.

And later on he opened up a preaching center. He was so was so inspired and we might even say purified at least to some degree by the association of Srila Prabhupada that he was actually doing something to spread Krishna consciousness right after that.

So these are examples of how powerful that association is. So therefore one should be eager to hear and chant in the association of great souls. Now in the Padma Purana it describes how to access the quality of hearing. How to maximize your ability to hear because we know the mind is cancala"

cancalam hi manah krsna pramathi balavad drdham
tasyaham nigraham manye vayor iva su-duskaram
(BG 6.34)

(aside: Jaya Sri Sri Radha Madhava Asta sakhi ki jaya!)

So Arjuna when Krishna told him, you try to control your mind, Arjuna said, you are asking me to control the wind, too difficult. And in the next verse Krishna ends the explanation by saying

abhyasena tu kaunteya vairagyena ca grhyate (BG 6.35) He says yes, He agrees with Arjuna. It's very difficult to control the mind, but by constant practice and by detachment from sense gratification the mind can be gradually become peaceful and then fixed in devotional service.

So in the Padma Purana there is a beautiful verse. It explains what are the four principles of effective hearing, that the four principles of effective hearing. I will just read them. First one is faith in the words of the speaker. If you have doubts then you are not going to be able to assimilate what is being said. Now, we can discuss that a little bit more. I will just go through these. The second one is humility, in other words one has to have a demeanor which is accepting what is being said. First faith, and then humility.

Now the third is destroying the faults in the mind. What are the faults in the mind? Any other thought that may arise during the time of the process of hearing. Sometimes we know the mind is going this way, it is going that way, it is going everywhere. It can travel through the whole universe and come back to Mayapur in a few seconds! That's just the nature of the mind - its powerful, its fast and its disobedient, extremely.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says, "Your mind is a non-devotee!" Haribol! Not very nice but that's what he said. So he said, "Therefore you should not associate with non-devotees." (laughter) Therefore we can't get rid of that association and therefore we have to preach to the mind, make him a devotee.

Therefore destroying the faults of the mind means constantly bringing back the mind to the lotus feet of the Lord or to the topic that is being narrated, fixing the consciousness on the subject matter.

And the last one its says that if one follows these first three, faith, humility and constantly bringing the mind back to the sound vibration then two things happen. One or two things may happen or both may happen. One gets realization of the subject matter and two one may start to think of questions in relationship to the subject matter.

These are principles or proponents of attentive hearing. We have to practice that with our japa of course and especially in the process of hearing, because the more we concentrate on what is being said, the more we go deeper into the mood of what is being said. And therefore the mind becomes fixed.

So King Rahugana really concentrated because Jada Bharata pulled out all his attachments in a few powerful statements. He had nothing left. And then he wanted to hear transcendental knowledge and after hearing transcendental knowledge then he spoke. The previous verse and this verse and the few verses remaining in the chapter are King Rahugana's glorification of Jada Bharata, his realization of pure devotional service.

He says, "I can't argue with you anymore. I am a king and nobody usually tells me what to do." Kings usually they are always right because of their position especially when dealing with their subjects and others. But he says, "I can't do that. You have completely destroyed all my arguments. I am free from all false arguments, any arguments, false prestige, my discrimination is clear, I understand now, I am your disciple; I surrender to you."

This is the mercy of a great soul. They tolerate the difficulties that come by way of purifying the hearts of the materialists and at the same time they give them the highest principle of pure devotional service or service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

That's the quality of great souls. They take so much trouble. Prabhupada said that is the nature of preaching. Preaching means you can expect it to be difficult and sometimes, Prabhupada would use the example, of Srila Haridas Thakura, or Prahlada Maharaj, Jesus Christ, how they compassionately, mercifully, with great tolerance tried to enlighten persons in God consciousness, but still they were harassed, beaten and even killed, or attempted to be killed. That is the nature of preaching. So therefore that is Krishna's mercy coming through great souls.

OK, we have to end by a quarter to. Any questions or comments?

Question: When Srila Prabhupada was physically on the planet and when there was anything read in the books or discussion about a devotee then everyone simply focused on Srila Prabhupada and presumed ? Srila Prabhupada. Then we see after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure, like the verse that you just read is for all time, so can you please explain or define what is meant by pure devotee because otherwise there are many neophytes today or many new devotees who feel, "Oh, you had association with a pure devotee but how can I get the association of pure devotees?" There's still a lot of confusion about the definition of pure devotee. Can you please help clear that?

HH Candramauli Swami: We can give many different understandings in relationship to the principle of receiving knowledge because if a person is perfectly representing a pure devotee then that representation is also pure and therefore the knowledge is coming perfectly.

So if we perfectly repeat Srila Prabhupada and are, as Srila Prabhupada said, actually the definition of a pure devotee is one who is 24 hours engaged in devotional service. One who has no other occupation or activity but to serve the spiritual master, serve the Lord 24 hours a day. That's one of the main qualities of devotional service, of a pure devotee.

Then you can tell by the symptoms. The symptoms of a pure devotee are also mentioned. He doesn't find fault with others, tolerant, of course humble. So we can define or we can observe by the symptoms, but the main symptom is one who is following another pure devotee purely. That would be also a pure devotee. One who is purely following the pure devotee. I hope that was OK? Thank you.

Question: Maharaja, as you have very beautifully explained that one of the characteristics of a devotee is that he is very tolerant, but sometimes some doubt arise in mind that many times when we have to engage our ourselves in some particular service, by being always very tolerant, very humble, we tend to sometimesi

HH Candramauli Swami: If we think ourselves to be tolerant and humble, that's a problem. We shouldn't think we are tolerant and humble. Because if you think you are tolerant and humble that is an indication you are not. So we therefore if are thinking we are tolerant and humble that means we can't access any more humility and tolerance.

One should think I am not tolerant, I am not humble. Or I am not tolerant enough, I can be more humble. And in that way you can always go deeper into those qualities. And by doing that you receive the mercy of the Lord because as soon as we think we have developed certain good qualities, those good qualities block Krishna's mercy, or that thought blocks Krishna's mercy.

The more unqualified you feel, the more you become qualified because the qualification is not yours. It is coming to you from the pure devotee, ultimately from the Lord. So we have to feel unqualified. And that's really what we are, unqualified.

Devotee: what I specifically mean to ask Maharaja is this, that sometimes by being always tolerant and silent, some misunderstanding arises and silence also means acceptance in some cases. So in that situation what should we do?

HH Candramauli Swami: Wel,l you can speak but speak with respect and detachment. If we know we are right, we feel we are right, but we are attached to the idea then that attachment also is another form of pride. Because a lot of times you might be right, just like Prabupada said, two people are working together. One person is 95% correct and the other person is 85% correct on how to do things, but if you fight then the whole thing is gone, lost. So better to cooperate on some level and in that way Krishna's mercy becomes available.

Devotee Prabhu: To listen to a devotee is a good service to the pure devotee. What are the other aspects of service?

HH Candramauli Swami: Personal service. You can offer personal service to a pure devotee. We should ask or you can actually sometimes arrange to do a little personal service. That's another way to serve a pure devotee, by doing personal service.

Devotee Mataji: Hare Krishna. You were saying that association does not entail physical proximity. HH Candramauli Swami: Well that's got to be there, but that doesn't mean you are in association.

Devotee Mataji: So in a situation where you don't have that physical proximity, how can we inquire?

HH Candramauli Swami: I don't want to sound mundane but we have email, we have letters, telephones, I mean if you really want to connect on a personal level there are other ways of doing that. Of course email is not always so good. But if you can get the same question answered in another way through reading the books or through someone else who is also qualified then why not do it that way? But if you don't have the personal association then you have to arrange for some way to communicate, that's practical.

Devotee Mataji: And how did they used to do that in former times before modern technology?

HH Candramauli Swami: Usually people would travel to get association of great souls. You see that throughout the sastras, how the devotees would go from one place to another. But association is also by remembering and following the instructions. That's another form of association and that's very powerful. If we hear carefully when we are in association and we could remember or write down and then apply when the time is needed, then those words are as good now as when they were spoken. That's another way.

Apurva Prabhu: Really great class. You really covered all bases. My question is, always been there, I have heard this verse 1/11th of a second, so how do we understand you know the mind is saying like really that 1/11th of a second is gone when someone says one word.

HH Candramauli Swami: When you get realization, I mean we read Prabhupada's books and we hear Prabhupada's lectures, we have had association with Prabhupada. But then one time when you hear the same statements you may have heard so many times, all of a sudden you realize it. It's like you hear, we hear - I am not this body. So this one time you hear I am not this body, yeah I got it, I finally got it. The mind and the purity of the words somehow connect and they reach the heart and then you get realization.

The process of Krishna consciousness is all about realization, whether realization comes by way of service or continual hearing, like that. Then when you get your realization that's your lava- matra. We want that. We don't want to be just a theoretical devotee, we just keep hearing, I know the philosophy but I don't really realize it. Realization means it becomes a part of you. And that realization comes by service and constant hearing with faith. Thank you.

Devotee Prabhu: Thank you, Maharaja. This is an excellent. You gave such a nice understanding of the immense benefits of hearing and essential need for constant hearing and actually you gave me a beautiful realization that Prabhupada's entire purpose in life was to spread the sankirtana movement which means a vast network of activities, deity worship, preaching, so many things, books, everything just to allow us to render him some nice service to fulfill his desire, Lord Caitanya's desire and we have immediate access to the reward which is the taste for hearing about Krishna that's available and that's what Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya is offering in the sankirtana movement, that instant taste for hearing about Krishna. Thank you.

HH Candramauli Swami: We want that taste. Keep going on hearing and keep on following the instructions of the pure devotees, then that taste will develop. OK, thank you very much. Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Srimad Bhagavatam ki jaya!

- Kindly transcribed by Sheela Ravishankar Mataji