(The following is an interview with Sripad Aindra dasa done last year for the forthcoming book Kirtan Meditations The Mood and Technique of Bhakti Kirtan compiled by Dhanurdhara Swami and Akincana Krishna dasa. Due to the unexpected loss of this great soul I decided to release his interview quite before the editing has been finished. I hope it gives some pleasure and solace to the congregation of the devotees feeling the loss of this great soul.)
AINDRA DASA
Doing kirtan for Srila Prabhupada
When Srila Prabhupada came to Washington in 1976, we would all briefly stop at his quarters before going to the temple to greet the Deities. One morning, somehow or other, the mrdanga was pushed into my hands and I was told to lead the kirtan. I guess there was nobody else to do it so I was trying to play as best as I could in a very simple way. I was walking right by Srila Prabhupada's side when he suddenly turns to me, lifts his head in his typical, regal way, and says with a very positive glance of approval “Jaya!” And that's the only word he said to me in my whole Krishna conscious life.
But that one word carried so much inspiration and potency. How did I get a “jaya!” out of Srila Prabhupada? It was simple–I was performing harinam sankirtan. I thus thought “why not continue to perform harinam-sankirtan, as at the least that simple service got a ‘jaya!’ out of Srila Prabhupada.” And that's been my whole idea ever since.
Chanting with purity
Harinam-sankirtan means to loudly chant the holy name for the benefit of others. We should seriously consider to what extent we are benefiting others, and also to what extent we are benefiting ourselves. There is apparent kirtan and real kirtan. Only sankirtan where the pure name is chanted is real sankirtan. If someone is making offenses to the name, simply articulating the syllables “Hare Krishna,” that is not real sankirtan. One must thus carefully consider the offenses to be avoided in the matter of chanting.
Can you talk about the different types of chanting?
There is bhukti-nama, offensive chanting, which results in material gain; there is mukti-nama, shadow chanting, which results in liberation, and there is prema-nama, pure chanting, which results in prema-bhakti, pure love of Godhead.
Bhukti-nama means offensive chanting. By chanting offensively, you can benefit others only by increasing their material piety. Bhaktivinoda Thakura therefore states that a pure devotee should not participate in kirtan led by offenders to the holy name. Who are those offenders? Those who do kirtanfor ulterior motives–who chant for money, or to augment their sex appeal, or do it for name and fame. Such chanting can at best result in material gratification.
Then there is mukti-nama or namabhasa. By such chanting one not only gradually becomes freed from all material contamination, but also liberates others from material existence. In other words, by hearing someone's loud chanting of namabhasa, one can attain liberation from material existence. Sounds good, right? It's certainly better than staying bound in the material world. But by such kirtan alone you cannot inculcate bhakti into the hearts of those who hear that kirtan, because namabhasa kirtan is only a resemblance of the holy name and not the pure name.
Lord Caitanya's movement is the prema-nam-sankirtan movement. Its purpose is to give the highest benefit, pure love of Godhead. Therefore if one actually wants to give oneself and others the highest benefit, one must awaken pure devotion to Radha and Krishna and for Sri Caitanya. To achieve that purpose we have to chant purely.
Jagadananda Pandit in Prema Vivarta thus recommends that if one wants to elevate their chanting to the platform of the pure name, one should perform sankirtan (as well as japa) in the association of those who are chanting the pure name. Only then can sankirtan can give the highest benefit.
Purity is the main thing – musical style is secondary
The most important ingredient in kirtan is the mood in which it is done. If one is either chanting the name with offenses, or chanting for liberation, one will not get bhakti, nor will one be able to offer it to anyone else.
It doesn't matter whether one is accompanying the kirtan with kartalas, mrdangas and harmonium, using a drum set, electric keyboard and bass guitar, decorating the kirtan with flute and violin, or even just clapping one's hands. One can chant with very melodious classical ragas, or one can sing raucous, hellacious, heavy metal chanting to attract certain people. One can sing ten tunes an hour or sing one tune every ten hours, sing in complex rhythmic patterns or simple rhythmic one. One can have jumping dancing kirtan or a very slow, contemplative kirtan. No matter what you do, no matter how you decorate the kirtan, if such chanting is not done with pure devotion, it will never ever inculcate bhakti into the heart of anyone.
The real question is: Are you chanting suddha-nama?
On the other hand, if you are chanting suddha-nama, you will get prema, the greatest need of the soul. Such chanting is real kirtan and it gives authentic, eternal benefit, by elevating ones soul as well the souls of others. It is real welfare work, not simply material altruism or liberation from repeated birth and death. It is thus the work meant to help others reconstitute their original dormant love of Godhead and uplift their soul to the platform of real satisfaction based on unalloyed pure devotion.
If one has the power, by the grace of suddha-nama, to do that kind of good to others, then it doesn't matter how you decorate the kirtan with accompaniment and skill.
The real question is then, are you doing real good for others by chanting suddha-nama?
If we are only chanting a lower stage we shouldn't perform sankirtan?
No, I'm not saying that. But we should know that we are not actually manifesting the real form of kirtanunless we are chanting without motive where suddha-nama, manifests.
Raga kirtan
It is also important to know the meaning of raga kirtan. In a musical sense raga refers to appropriate melodies. The classical Indian system of ragas are thus certainly useful in kirtan, but real raga kirtan, goes beyond just musical consideration It is kirtan on the platform of bhava, devotion with spontaneous feeling.
Raga literally means attraction or affectionate attachment. In kirtan it refers to melodies that create an attractive atmosphere to affect the heart and increase affection. This doesn't mean that raga is just meant for making the music attractive for us and others. It means to perform kirtan in such a way that Krishna becomes attracted to our kirtan. It is kirtan where Krishna is attracted to the expression of our love expressed by the atmosphere we have generated for His pleasure.
And that principle of attraction is expansive. When you satisfy Krishna you satisfy the whole creation. Thus everyone is automatically pleased and attracted by performing sankirtan solely for the pleasure of Krishna.
Instrumentation in kirtan can thus be likened to so many zeros. Zeros, even many zeros, have value only if one is added before them. You then get ten, a hundred, a thousand, or even a million. Similarly musical talent in kirtan has no value within
itself, but expands exponentially in value when one, when suddha-nama, is added before it. And without the one of suddha-nama, the mood of offering the kirtan for the pleasure of Krishna, all the best music and instrumentation, is simply zero.
We should note, however, that we don't see in Govinda Lilamrta the gopis concerned about Krishna not accepting their hundreds and millions of zeros, their unlimited musical talent in the performance of kirtan. That is because their kirtan is solely for his pleasure. They never thought, “Oh we better not make the musical instrumentation too nice because we may get trapped by our own desires to enjoy the musical vibration and then Krishna won't accept our kirtan.” Rather the gopis' used whatever complex musical and rhythmical arrangements found in the music of Lord Brahma and the residents of the higher planetary systems and beyond that the even more difficult musical arrangements performed
by Laksmi Narayana and the residents of Vaikuntha. But whatever musical embellishments they used were all simply done without any tinge of ulterior motive.
It is said in sastra that when Krishna plays his flute it is so complex and astounding that demigods like Lord Brahma become bewildered and Lord Siva falls off Nandi the bull, unconscious. So we can't insist that only simple tunes and melody satisfy Krishna. Krishna enjoys a variety of flavors, many of which are intricate. If Krishna only enjoys simple presentations then why do we change the dress of the Deities' dress twice a day? It is the same Krishna, but the new dress allows us to appreciate him in a fresh way. Similarly when we see Krishna decorated in a different ragas or tunes, the attractive atmosphere created enhances our appreciation of the beauty of Krishna In the form of his name. Instead of decorating him in only one dress, a red dress all the time, we decorate him sometimes in a blue dress, or yellow dress, that contrasts so stunningly against Krishna's black body. But then sometimes we dress Him in a pink dress which brings out Krishna's beauty in a slightly different way. Sometimes He is dressed with simple ornamentation, and sometimes with very complex ornamentation. The simple ornamentation makes Krishna's bodily form look a little more complex, whereas the complex ornamentation brings out the simple beauty and sweetness of Krishna in another way. In the exact same way we can bring out the unique beauty of the holy name with various decorations of ragas.
Why is it that we offer Krishna a feast and not just khichari. Of course Krishna was satisfied to eat Sanatana Gosvami's wheat balls without any salt, because it was offered with devotion, but that is all he had. Do you think that the gopis only offer khichari to Krishna every day? Why is it that Radharani never cooks the same milk preparation twice? To entice Krishna, to add his appetite, to enchant him, to make him think that Radharani really loves him. So in the same way, when we make a nice feast for Krishna we offer Him so many different varieties.
So there is scope in Krishna consciousness for making everything first-class, better than first-class, and offering all these hundreds and thousands of zeros of first-class arrangements for the pleasure of Krishna. Therefore if the kirtan arrangements are all first-class and done simply for Krishna's pleasure without any other consideration involved, that is raga kirtan.
Does Krishna like Indian classical music the most?
Yes, why not, but the over riding principle is Krishna's pleasure? Govinda Lilamrta describes that thegopis were using hundreds of ragas and they weren't even performing the ragas according to the strict rules of time consideration. They were performing all varieties of ragas, daytime ragas, seasonal ragas, any type of ragas, within the course of one night's rasa lila. Not only did they relish varieties of previously established ragas, but they mixed ragas and they created new ragas, combined with extremely complex mrdanga playing and extremely complex dancing. It describes how one gopi came out into the middle of the arena and she tapped her feet once, then twice, then thrice, to prove to the audience that her ankle bells were working, and then began to dance in such an unprecedented way that in spite of all of her intricate footwork, her ankle bells did not sound. Krishna and Radharani and all thesakhis exclaimed bravo, bravo, well done! She had such so much talent, but it was for the pleasure of Krishna and all the devotees.
At the same time, however, when Srila Prabhupada asked a pujari to identify a carob-peanut butter sweet on the Deity plate that he was not familiar with he disapproved. “Do not offer it to the Deities. I have given you so many varieties of sweets that Krishna likes to eat.” So there are things that Krishna prefers. The Indian classical raga system is something like that–a musical system that Krishna appreciates, but that doesn't mean that Krishna cannot appreciate new ragas beyond the old establishedragas that are created for His pleasure.
Personal Meditations
In both my japa meditation, and in my performance of sankirtan, I begin by meditating on and worshiping Sri Sri Gauranga and Nityandana in Navadvipa. Then I gradually enter through the mood and bhava of Sri Caitanya into the chanting of the madhurya nama hare krishna maha-mantra and meditation on Radha and Krishna. Gaura-nama is audharya-nama, the name of compassion, and Radha-Krishna nama ismadhurya-nama, sweetness personified. The audharya-nama-sankirtan can very quickly elevate the devotees to the platform of suddha-nama- sankirtan. And suddha-nama-sankirtan, as we have discussed before, has the power to inculcate bhakti-sakti into the heart of the people associated with the kirtan.
Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita “first surrender, then bhakti, or prema, comes later.” Gaura is so merciful, however, that he says without considering who is fit and who is not fit, “Just take love of Godhead.” Surrender comes later. But how can one just take love of godhead if one doesn't take gaura-nama first?
What is the difference between japa and kirtan?
There are two prominent ways that the gopis are absorbed in the services of Radha and Krishna. One is in nikunja seva, where one serves Radha-Krishna alone. The other is rasa-lila- dancing and singing and serving Krishna with all the gopis.
Similarly as all the gopis have their individual kunjas for individual personal service, we chant nama japain the mood of nama seva, to assist in personal intimate service. Nama japa is thus like facilitating the meeting of Radha and Krishna alone.
So nama japa is a more secluded, personal affair. You may even pull your chaddar over your face so that no one can see your emotions. Japa is your own relationship to Radha and Krishna without the consideration that your feelings are shared with others. One is thus free to allow the heart to flow and express one's desperation for the eternal loving service to the holy name in a way that one can't do in public assembly.
However, nama japa is not simply a matter of only one's personal relationship with Radha and Krishna. We also perform nama japa to become inspired to share our devotion to Radha and Krishna with others in the form of nama sankirtan. In that way japa is never a selfish affair. So japa can either be chanted for the satisfaction of Radha and Krishna or chanted to attain the spiritual experience necessary to have real compassion on others. In either case, the aim is never selfish or self aggrandizing.
As practicing devotees, it's powerful to chant nama japa in the mood of separation – especially a type of separation called purva raga, which means the intense, desperate anticipation to meet Radha and Krishna. The idea is that you meditate on the types of services that you would like to do for Radha and Krishna and pray, “When, oh, when will that day be mine?” That is purva-raga.
Sankirtan, on the other hand, can be performed in the spirit of Krishna's rasa lila. The rasa lila acts as an appetizer to wet Krishna's appetite for more intimate reciprocation with his gopis. In Ujjvala nilamani, however, there is a description that says that the rasa lila generates in Krishna a happiness that far surpasses even the experience of His complete intimate union with Srimati Radharani and the gopis. One may ask “How is it possible for rasa-lila to be the highest when the culmination of all pastimes is Radha-Krishna enjoying alone in the forests of Vrindavana? “The answer is vipralambha; it is the mood of separation. In the rasa lila Krishna although so close is so far away as well. He is dancing with the gopis, but not yet in his most intimate association with them. The rasa lila is thus like the hors d'oeuvres that are served before the meal. The meal is the real objective, but hors d'oeuvres can often be more tantalizing, more piquant and full of rasa than the feast itself. In the same way the most exuberant expression of nama-bhajana is not being alone with Krishna in japa, but in the performance of nama-sankirtan with others.
By nama-kirtan Krishna also sees that you are serious about sacrificing your egocentricity for the purpose of helping others to gain access to the holy name. An attraction thus naturally awakens within Krishna to the soul who is performing that yajna. It induces him to relish deeper with that devotee even more intimate, loving reciprocation in the form of nama japa In that way, nama-sankirtan and nama japaare always inter-supportive
Nowhere, however, it is said that nama japa is the yuga-dharma, the specific spiritual practice for this age. The yuga-dharma is nama-sankirtan, loud chanting for the benefit of others. And that's what bringsnama seva to the highest level.
The yuga-dharma facilitates the proper result from the performance of all other practices of devotional service. Therefore without performing sankirtan, one cannot gain the highest benefit and deepest realization of the purpose of hearing the Bhagavata, chanting nama japa, taking first-class sadhu-sanga, worshipping the Deity, or of residing in the holy dhama. In other words, one cannot gain the highest result from engaging in any other practice of devotional service without spending sufficient time in the direct performance of nama-sankirtan.
How does one achieve the highest benefit in all devotional practices by nama-sankirtan? When Krishna sees that someone is helping others by giving them the opportunity to hear the holy name, then Krishna from within and from without lifts the curtain of yogamaya from that person. He thus allows them to see the actual nature of the Deity and to penetrate and realize the deepest imports of the Bhagavata, the path of spontaneous devotion. And by serving guru and Krishna on the path of raga, or at least by practicing serving them on that path, ones understanding of Bhagavata and ones relish of the Deity becomes even further enhanced. Then all one’s practices enter the raga dimension and helps one evolve to the plane of raganuga bhava, vraja bhava. That is real sankirtan. That is the sankirtan of Lord Caitanya and his associates – the relish of vraja bhava in the course of performing sankirtan-yajna.
It is essential that devotees who are actually very serious about advancing in Krishna consciousness, advancing to the perfectional stage, to come to this position of performing raga-mayi-sankirtan, kirtanladen with spiritual emotion. Only then can one help others awaken their deepest appreciation of theBhagavata and their deepest appreciation of all gifts that Srila Prabhupada and all the acaryas have left.
Aindra's style
I have more or less coined the name for my style of kirtan as progressive kirtan. Just like there is progressive rock, so I have more or less named my way of doing kirtan as progressive kirtan. The kind ofkirtan that I have been influenced by is a northern Indian classical style called kayal. Kayal, as far as I understand, means fantasy. I haven't gotten deeply into that style, but I have incorporated elements of that style in my humble attempt.
What I see about the kayal style is that it leaves room for improvisation more so than the dhrupad style. Dhrupad style is more rigid. Dhrupad style is more concerned with the letter of the law of musical ragas, whereas the kayal style more or less accentuates the spirit of the law of musical ragas. In the kayalstyle you may add a note to a raga, for example, for the purpose of inspiration or generating a bhava. That kind of reflects the gopis' mixing of ragas or creating new ragas. The basic principles of the ragaremain intact, but some extra note may be added just to enhance the flavor. In that way it tends to enhance the beauty of a raga in some ways.
Getting devotees to chant
When you're leading kirtan we not only benefit people by giving them a chance to hear, but benefit them a hundred times over by giving them a chance to chant. In the Hari-bhakti-vilasa it said that one who is hearing is benefitted, but one who chants is benefitted a hundred times more.
Some devotees complain about the complexity in my style, but I think that if you actually listen to the vast majority of my kirtan, it is quite simple if one just pays attention. One thing I try to do is keep people on their toes, forcing devotees who participate with me in kirtan to tune in and listen more attentively, instead of just putting their mind on automatic.
In the kind of kirtan that I prefer, there are many varieties of tastes being generated, along with progressive rhythmic patterns. We'll use the mrdanga and kartalas to change up, change over, shift gears, and bring the kirtan into new dimensions. I try to use a variety of technical musical embellishments which I feel enhance the attractiveness of the kirtan. My practical experience is that putting the kirtan through changes helps to keep the devotees who are participating in the kirtan alert. It gets them out of the automatic mode and gets them into the thinking mode. From the thinking mode you can come to the conscious mode. Conscious of what you are doing, conscious of how the kirtan is developing, conscious of the mood that the kirtan leader is trying to inspire in the hearts of the other participants, whether it is direct inner circle participants, or outer circle public. From what I gather, many devotees take inspiration from the style of kirtan that I have developed.
No one said that leading a kirtan is meant to be a cakewalk. It is a sacrifice, an austerity. It is not easy. It is difficult to have the necessary clout, purity of purpose and intension in chanting to inspire people from within to come forward to help. Personally I don't claim to be so powerful, or so expert, so I have to struggle sometimes just to wake people up to get them to chant. It's not that the tune is too complicated; it is that people are not attentive. So sometimes you have to remind those people again and again “Prabhu, haribol! Chant!” because they are going to get much more benefit by participating in the responsive chanting.
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