Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, is simultaneously an individual "PERSON" as an eternal spiritual body, who's Bodily rays that emanate from His Bodily form, ARE the all pervasive perpetual Spiritual Sky (brahmajyoti).
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (jiva-souls) who are an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed, which is eternity.
The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished.
The jiva-souls are indestructible and can NEVER cease to exist as Bhagavad Gita As It Is teaches us.
The individual marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) are PERSONS eternally, as a spiritual bodily form. The jiva-souls are eternal PERSONS which is their full spiritual bodily potential voluntarily serving Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-tattva or soul) or independent jiva-souls like us." (BG, Ch 10 Text 37, Purport)
This means each "individual jiva-soul" has their own unique independent spiritual body, personality and free will to voluntarily serve Krsna in 5 different ways or pastimes.
Genuine loving exchanges with Krsna can only exist if one's relationship with Krsna is expressed in a "two-sided" relationship of individually giving and receiving loving emotions and feelings.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons," where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is always "voluntary." Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
The eternal spiritual bodily form of the jiva-soul is-
sat,
cit,
ananda,
vigraha.
These word's means-
eternity,
knowledge,
bliss,
form.
Fortunately, over 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, even though they can choose to leave if they want, therefore only a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-souls, do choose to leave and enter the material creation via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.
In the spiritual world the jiva-soul's loving relationship with Krsna is always voluntary and never forced.
Those voluntary individual contributions from the jiva-souls, are eternally offered to Visnu and Krsna in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in "two-way" reciprocal exchange. In the spiritual world the jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna, all service to Krsna is voluntary.
For loving service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it also means rejecting Krsna if they choose, otherwise there can be no question of voluntary loving exchanges or free will.
Each jiva-soul expresses themselves as an independent individual so they can experience unique loving exchanges in their personal service to Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism)
This quality of free will is part and parcel of the jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to be an independent free thinking (able to have a voluntarily act of self expression) expansion of Krsna. Therefore, being a marginal living entity (jiva-soul) means having free will that is included when describing the qualities of the individual jiva-souls.
As said above, Krsna allows this freedom the jiva-souls have because without free will loving exchanges, personal offerings and contributions in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship would never exist.
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Having free will explained above, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual world.
This even means the jiva-souls can choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime.
lt is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can never again fall down once in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, they do and can always fall down, but most (over 90%) choose to stay.
This is because free will always allows the choice to choose, and without the ability to voluntarily choose, there is no question of loving exchanges.
So, the choice to even leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way" relationship where one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose.
Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Talk on Rene Descartes with Hayagriva dasa)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one-way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Genuine loving exchanges can never exist if one's relationship with God was not a "two-way" exchange of feelings, but only a domineering "one-sided" affair with a so called God. Freedom or free will obviously includes having the choice to accept or reject Krsna, otherwise free will has no meaning and is useless.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons," where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
There is only one classification of jiva-souls (marginal living entities) who can remain liberated or become conditioned in the material world, not two as some foolish believe.
This means each individual jiva-soul has "two-sides" to their character and personality. They can either be "nitya-baddha" (eternally conditioned), or "nitya-siddha" (eternally liberated)
The term "eternal" means ONLY while in that "perpetual free state" in the spiritual world, or while "conditioned" in the material world.
This means the jiva-souls can choose for themselves to be with Krsna, or reject Krsna. Each jiva-soul, as part and parcel of their spiritual constitutional make-up, always have the free will to choose.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Some wrongly claim there are two types of jiva-souls, one only in the spiritual world, the other in the material world which is nonsense-
1 - One who stays in the Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana and never has a choice to go to the material creation (nitya-siddha)
2 - And the other in the material creation (nitya-baddha) who can also be dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti. But can also enter the spiritual worlds too, but once there can never fall down, so they claim.
There is only one category of jiva-soul who have "two-sides" to their individual personality - nitya-siddha (eternally conditioned) and nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned).
The jiva-souls can be either nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned), however, the jiva-soul's original position is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated), and the fallen condition of the jiva-soul is nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned).
This means the jiva-soul's original home is Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
As said above, there is only one category of the jiva-soul who can be either nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated).
To make it clearer, there is only "one kind" of "jiva-soul" existing and they are ALL known as the "marginal living entities" in both the spiritual and material worlds.
Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa (jiva-tattva or "independent" jiva-souls (marginal living entities) like us." (BG, Ch 10 Text 37, Purport)
Each individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) in the spiritual world can "choose" to "voluntarily" serve Krsna in an unlimited variety of ways as an unlimited varieties of bodily forms, or can even reject Krsna if they choose to do so, and enter or return to the impermanent decaying material world.
Srila Prabhupada – "The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Being "marginal" means the jiva-souls can always choose to be under the influence of the spiritual energy or under the material energy or choose to be either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of EVER marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them to their original position. It is a difficult task." (London lecture BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who enters the material world, they are nitya baddha." (Lecture BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka (Goloka Vrindavana), does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 4/25/1970)
Srila Prabhupada – "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities, usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya, it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original constitutional position (nitya-siddha). The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 02/27/1970)
Genuine meaningful loving exchanges are voluntary in a reciprocal "two-way" relationship, it is never a "one-way" forceful dictatorship where Krsna possess you and does all the thinking and actions for you, that is NOT surrender, it is impersonalism.
Surrender to Krsna's pure devotees does not mean you lose your free will, the independence of voluntary service, the ability to think for yourself, and unique individuality in the spiritual world, no, mindless bogus surrender is impersonalism!
The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal PERSONS, as a spiritual bodily form like Krsnas Body, whose perpetual permanent natural home is the spiritual world.
God (Krsna) is not ONLY an all-pervading consciousness who is even in the atom, no, Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes is also simultaneously an individual "PERSON" as an eternal spiritual bodily Form, who's Bodily rays ARE the Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, but they are more covered in the materialworld, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, May 20, 1975)
Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the body. If the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is nonmaterial, what is the form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form. Just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand, you have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the jiva-soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, shape, very minute shape, that we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumeyam. You cannot measure. What is that word used? Aprameyam. Aprameyam, you cannot measure but it has a form. What is the length and breadth of that form, that is not in your power to understand, not materially. If you have got spiritual power then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)
The jiva-souls natural home is in the spiritual energy with Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana as individual spiritual PERSONS like Krsna.
The jiva-souls are eternal PERSONS called the "marginal living entities" meaning they can be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
The marginal living entity (jiva-soul) has always had freedom (free will) therefore, there is no question of the marginal living entity ever not having free will because free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana is perpetually part and parcel of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) make up.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from Goloka-Vrindavana and not the Impersonal Brahman as Prabhupada teaches.
Originally, and the eternal constitution, is ALL jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha because they all come from Goloka-Vrindavana, only when they enter the material creation and the impersonal brahman do they then become nitya-baddha.
Therefore nitya-siddha can become a nitya-baddhas and nitya-baddhas can AGAIN become nitya-siddha.
No jiva-souls originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti which is a condition of consciousness the jiva-souls fall too as Prabhupada explains here-
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don’t fall down.
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving."
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?" Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Question - Is there a place in the spiritual world from where we can never fall down from?"
Answer - No, it is not based on a place where you can never fall down from that keeps you in Vaikuntha, it does not work that way because of free will, which means there is always choice to leave Vaikuntha at any moment or voluntarily stay.
If you were forced to stay there then how can there be love? The choice to leave or stay must always be with the jiva-souls too.
So, many cannot understand what free will really means, they sentimentally claim "not even the leaves fall from Vaikuntha."
It is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can ever again fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because they each have their own free will and can make their own decisions no matter what Kṛṣṇa promises.
Remaining in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana eternally is based on what the jiva-soul's want to do as a unique individual, it is also their choice to say or go, not just Krsnas as explained above, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.
If Krsna forced His will on the jiva-souls then He destroys their independence, free will and ability to voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way, allowing themselves to choose where they want to be even if returning to the material creation.
In other words, the jiva-souls also have a choice to become a servant of the Lord or can reject Him if they want, even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Genuine loving exchanges can never exist if one's relationship with Krsna the Supreme Lord was not in a "two-way" voluntary reciprocation.
Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is always "voluntary." Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
The jiva-souls never lose their unique ability of free will and independent self expression, where one is personally always aware they can choose how to selflessly serve Krsna in their own unique way as the loving servant of the servant of Krsna.
The claim that one does not again fall from Krsna's personal Kingdom, is the jiva-soul's responsibility too, and not just Krsnas. It is also the jiva-soul's choice as well, it is their free will to choose, and no one else can choose for them, including Krsna, otherwise what is the point of having free will?
However, 90% of all jiva-souls do not fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they choose not to fall down, but even that can change because of free will, in this regards nothing is permanent, not even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
That choice to stay in Vaikuntha or leave is always up to the marginal living entities or jiva-souls too.
The jiva-souls or marginal living entities have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities or 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes which puts them in the realm of having independent identity, personality, individuality and the ability to choose.
This means the jiva-souls have the ability to agree or not agree with Krsna.
Their individuality allows the jiva-souls the right to choose Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna, this is the meaning of free will.
Remember, Maya and the material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, so Maya is unknown to the jiva-souls in the spiritual worlds and are NOT the cause of fall down.
Free will and independence therefore, allows the jiva-souls to experience a unique sense of individuality with the ability to express oneself in their own way.
All these qualities are the constitutional makeup of each jiva-soul (marginal living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
And if all those abilities are taken away, then the jiva-souls lose the ability to give and accept love and become no better than dead stone.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. Do you want to be stone? Then, you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
No one forces the jiva-souls to stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, that choice
For loving exchanges to truly exist with the jiva-soul, they must have the the right to express themselves and choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent.
Syamasundara - "But can we predict that the process (returning back home back to Godhead) will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence and free will. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no question of permanent because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back. but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Prabhupada with Syamasundara discussion on Henri Bergson)
The jiva-souls are minor expansions of Krsna endowed with individuality that allows them to experience an independent personal sense of self separate from Krsna.
This allows the jiva-souls to make their own decisions and choices. Therefore, Krsna does not interfere with the jiva-soul's free will because it is part of the eternal constitution of all jiva-souls.
Krsna never at any point did not give freedom or free will to the marginal living entities (jiva-soul) because they have always had free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana without beginning or end.
Free will allows the jiva-souls to experience individuality, loving reciprocation, independent service, and be responsible for their actions.
This however, does not means all jiva-soul's are independent from Krsna's control of all things, that is not possible, at all time the jiva-souls are always dependent on Krsna or His different expansions like Maha-Visnu, even as independent individuals in the material world because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
Therefore, the jiva-souls always remain independent living entities, but simultaneously depend on Krsna and His expansions in both the spiritual world and the material world.
The jiva-souls are never fully independent because Krsna owns everything.
So, even though the jiva-souls are an expansion of Krsna, they are technically not one with Krsna's personality, each individual jiva-soul has their own unique personality.
The way Krsna controls all things, is He provides the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) with the facilities to carve their own pathways to heaven or hell, because of their choices. Both Krsna and the jiva-souls are independent with their own unique personality.
The individual jiva-souls are not one with Krsna but are independent thinking living entities who have their own sense of self and personality that makes them one in purpose.
Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the manifestation of Radha and Krsna in one Body where both experience each other's love for each other.
Infact, Krsna, Balarama, Radharani and Lord Caitanya are all the one personality of Krsna in different moods but only properly understood when one is advanced in their Krsna consciousness.
The claim that once reaching Vaikuntha the jiva-souls can never again fall down is not exactly true.
To claim those who enter Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will never again fall down to the material creation, is only true for those who choose NOT to fall down.
In other words, if the jiva-souls want to leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, they certainly can. Therefore, entering the material world is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice, and Krsna does not interfere with that choice, even though He promised there is no return to the material creation once entering the spiritual atmosphere.
The fact is there IS a choice simple because Krsna allows it, the jiva-souuk8p80 93.75s can even reject Krsna and His promise in a "two-way" voluntary exchange of emotion.
The fact is, there is return IF the jiva-souls wants to return to the material creation Prabhupada tells us, it is their choice.
Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming there to the spiritual abodes, he never returns to the material worlds, he can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
So, clearly those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha have not understood the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha of whom the jiva-souls are just one and Prabhupada's comments here.
As said above, only a very small minority of jiva-souls (less than 10%) choose to leave but not in the category of Visnu-tattvas who can never fall down because they are Krsna Himself playing another role in His own pastimes.
Many have not understood there are many different categories of living entities in Vrindavana who never fall down, such as the many Visnu-tattva personalities.
And for over 90% of jiva-souls, they also never fall down because they choose not to fall down.
Devotee - "Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana), there’s no possibility of falling down again?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it in again IF you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent." (CC, Adi-lila 7.108 San Francisco, Feb 18, 1967)
Sadly, there are a small minority who do not learn from the lesson of being in the material world, and they do return to the material world (less than 10% of jiva-souls do fall from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana)
Free will is eternal in the spiritual world and without having the free expression to choose to either forget Krsna, or remember Krsna, then the jiva-souls would have no independent personality or a sense of independent self.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are eternally separate from Krsna's Personality who have their own unique character and personality who voluntarily contribute from their own unique independent abilities and talents that gives personality to their identity.
Without having the unique individual ability to voluntarily offer love as an independent PERSON, we are no better than dead stone.
The eternal constitution and original position of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is fully explained by Krsna disguised as a brahmana as follows-
The Brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, 4th Canto Ch, 28 text 53)
Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
There was no beginning to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) existence, nor will there be an end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 text 12, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29, 1983 edition)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
Please read Srila Prabhupada's correct 1983 edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is where Ch 2 Text 20 correctly explains the jiva-souls are beginningless and endless.
Compiled by your aspiring servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP
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