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With Prabhupada's permission, the devotees scheduled him for the all-night Uncle Jay Show, a talk show on radio station WMEX. At 11:00 P.M. three devotees-Satsvarupa and Pradyumna, in suits and ties, and Jadurani in a sari-went on the air. Prabhupada was scheduled to join them at 3 o'clock.

"I have before me in the studio tonight," Uncle Jay began, "two nice young men and a young woman who have normal American names like Steve and Paul and Judy. And when you hear them speak, they sound like normal Americans. But if you could see them-they look a little unusual. Down the front of their noses they have some white paint..."

Uncle Jay's listeners began calling in questions, and although most of the questions were trivial, the devotees got many good opportunities to talk about Krsna consciousness. Finally, around 3:00 A.M. Srila Prabhupada arrived. He had risen according to his usual schedule and had come directly to the station. Impressed by Prabhupada, Uncle Jay received him politely and had him sit down and begin answering questions.

Question: "I heard a swami can't pass over water, so how did you get to the U.S.A.?"

Prabhupada: "No, why not? That is superstition. Lord Caitanya said to spread this philosophy all over the world, in every town and village. So He certainly knew I would have to cross over the water."

Question: "How did you become a swami?"

Prabhupada: "Everyone is expected to become a swami. Suppose one lives a hundred years. The fourth state is to renounce and completely be engaged in controlling the senses. So it takes seventy-five years to become a swami."

Question: "Did you give up your wife?"

Prabhupada: "Woman is not given up. She is always dependent-on her father as a young girl and then on her husband, then on her children, older sons. I was in India recently and my son saw me, but my wife could not see me."

Question: "In this country we would call that desertion."

Prabhupada: "No, it is a question of progress. There is no divorce. She's a devotee of another swami. The wife generally is not allowed to be the student of her husband who has become a swami."

Question: "Do you believe the soul is immortal?"

Prabhupada: "Yes, you know the soul is immortal. Immortality is not a question of belief. It is a fact. You know what you were in your childhood and your youth..."

Question: "What does it mean in the Bible, "The soul that sinneth also dieth'?"

Uncle Jay interrupted and said that since this was a question about the Bible, the caller should ask his priest and not trouble the Swami.

But Prabhupada interrupted: "No, we can answer this. He who identifies with the body commits practical suicide. He forgets himself. Those who are sinful forget their spiritual identity, and they have to take another body."

Question: "What impelled you to take sannyasa?"

Prabhupada: "Routine work. One has to become a swami. It is not a hobby. Because they don't take sannyasa, they suffer."

Question: "You say meditation is very difficult. How does chanting make it easier?"

Prabhupada: "At the present moment, meditation in its pure form is not possible. To do it properly, one has to control the senses, follow the rules, practice the sitting posture, thinking, and feeling, become absorbed in thought. But chanting-as soon as you hear "Krsna,' immediately the mind is attracted. There is no necessity of prequalification. Anyone in any country can sit down and chant Hare Krsna, and he will find himself in complete meditation."

Uncle Jay: "So Maharishi's transcendental meditation is nothing new?"

Prabhupada: "No. He says to go and enjoy and simply pay him thirty-five dollars. But you have to control your senses, or how can you meditate? Because you do not want to practice, you do not want to follow. I was surprised that people in America and Western Europe took these cheap things. You don't want the real thing. These yogis never restrict their students. If they restrict their students, the students do not come and pay the fees."

Uncle Jay: "When I was small, I read a book about swamis who slept on beds of nails. Are you that kind of swami?"

Prabhupada: "That is just a trick. That is not perfection."

Uncle Jay: "Do you mean when you say swami means "control of the senses' that if I cut you, you won't feel pain?"

Prabhupada: "That is not perfection. If you take even chloroform, then you will not feel pain-as in a surgical operation. Control of the senses means that I can be in the midst of beautiful women, but I will feel no desire for sex. I have got sufficient strength, but I have no desire for this. That is real control of the senses."

And so it went until five in the morning.

On the way home, Srila Prabhupada rode in the front seat of the taxi beside the driver. Understanding he had an unusual passenger, the driver-who had been listening to the Uncle Jay Show-asked Prabhupada, "Are you similar to that transcendental meditation swami?"

"We are similar," Srila Prabhupada said, "in that he is a Hindu sage and we are a Hindu sage. But his method, meditation, is actually a very difficult process. But ours is very easy-chanting."

Biographies and Glorifications of Srila Prabhupada Gita-nagari Press- Prabhupada-lila-Satsvarupa dasa Goswami-A Visit to Boston, 1968