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Mike Barron and Carol Jarvis, a couple of reporters from two major Melbourne TV stations, came to see Srila Prabhupada at 11am. Prabhupada had been speaking to Pusta Krsna, Hari-sauri and Guru Krpa in his room about the frailties of modern science. The scientists, he said, were ignorant of the soul within the body. Despite their bold claims for creating life, they could not even create a tiny insect.

This theme carried over to Prabhupada's conversation with Mike Barron. "There is no institution, no university, no education system to understand what is the living force, without which this body is simply a lump of matter. Where is that education?"

"What do you call that force?" asked Mike.

"That is the soul or consciousness, the same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more, but the pilot is the same. So the body may be of an elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is the real understanding."

"Can you tell us a little bit about Krsna consciousness. What does it mean?"

"Just like the living force within the body -- that is the most important thing. Similarly, throughout this creation, this cosmic manifestation, Krsna is the most important thing."

Mike wondered whether Prabhupada was happy with the way that the Krsna consciousness movement was progressing throughout the world, particularly in Australia.

"Well," Prabhupada replied, "we are progressing very slowly because the subject matter is so difficult that even big, big scientists, big, big, professors, they are puzzled. So you cannot expect. But those who are fortunate, they are understanding. So with this process, we cannot expect that a mass of people will understand immediately, but if one person understands, he can act very tremendously to educate the people on this matter. Just like the example is that to illuminate the sky it does not require millions of stars. One moon is sufficient."

"And what is the biggest obstacle for people to overcome?" asked Mike.

"Their dullness. They are not being educated, but are being put into the darkness of ignorance more and more. This is going on in the name of education."

Mike seemed sympathetic and had quickly grasped Prabhupada's meaning. Carol, although superficially polite and respectful, was not as submissive. She noted that the devotees were all quite young, and wondered whether they had really understood what they were getting into when they joined the temple.

"They are intelligent boys," Prabhupada replied. "They are coming from respectable families, educated. Why they should go after me unless they have got something substantial? That you can ask them."

Carol questioned the necessity of what she saw as the devotees' "very spartan way of life".

Do's and don'ts, Prabhupada explained, were necessary. A diseased patient accepts the doctor's prescription, "You don't eat like this, you don't do this, you do this." Similarly, a devotee agrees to follow the regulations of the spiritual master. Prabhupada compared spiritual life in Krsna consciousness to an insurance policy. "The real impediment to happiness is birth, death, old age and disease. So if you want real happiness, then you have to first of all make arrangements that you'll not die, or you'll not take birth, you'll not become old, you'll not be diseased. Just like insurance. They make insurance of life. So where is your insurance for these things? This is insurance -- Krsna consciousness."

Carol's questions remained shallow. Many people, she said, found it difficult to reconcile the devotees' way of life with what she called the movement's "great financial resources".

Prabhupada explained that the Krsna consciousness movement did not depend on any material circumstances. But Carol seemed preoccupied with the devotees' financial condition.

"If I could use the example, perhaps, of your temple, which has a lot of very rich material things in it. I wonder what significance that plays in your spiritual life."

Prabhupada answered her question with another.

"So what do you mean by spiritual and material? Do you know the distinction? I say that in the temple there is nothing material, all spiritual, but you have no eyes to see it."

Carol, missing Prabhupada's deep philosophical point, pressed on. "I wonder if you could lead an equal sort of life without the richness of the temple."

Prabhupada remained patient. "Yes, you can do. You can live at your home like us. We are giving the example. You can live also like that. That is spiritual life. If you follow the same rules and regulations and live like that, that is spiritual life."

Carol continued to reveal her superficial grasp of Krsna consciousness. "You told me earlier that you make thousands of dollars a day out of the sales of your books. If you want your thoughts to be passed on to other people, why do you sell the books and make money out of them?"

"Otherwise you'll not read it," said Prabhupada. "If I give you free, then you'll think: 'Ah, this is something nonsense. They are giving free.' So when they pay for it, they will try to see 'What these books are saying? Let me see.' And if you get free, then you may keep in your rack for hundreds of years. But after all, we have to print these books, so who will pay for that? We have no money."

The camera crews continued filming. Carol wanted to know what happened to the rest of the money the devotees collected on the street.

"We are increasing our movement," Prabhupada replied. "We are opening centres. We are printing more books. These are my books. I have made a Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. I have given my will that 50 per cent of the collection should be spent for reprinting the books and 50 per cent should be spent for spreading the movement. So there is no question of material profit."

Carol had one last question. "I wonder if I could ask you, finally, if you have a message?"

"Yes, this is the message: that people are under the impression that one is this body, but that is not the fact. The soul, or the man, he is within the body. Just like you are not this shirt and coat. You are within the shirt and coat .."

After the interview, Srila Prabhupada kept preaching to Carol. Despite the logic of his arguments, however, Carol remained stubbornly sceptical.


- From "The Great Transcendental Adventure" by HG Kurma Prabhu