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Madhudvisa spoke up. "Srila Prabhupada, this concept that everything belongs to God, it can't work unless everybody believes that everything belongs to God."

"Then everybody may be mad," retorted Prabhupada with a grin. "That does not change the fact. If some madman comes in this room and he fights, 'I am the proprietor, you get out', so that is not the fact."

Wally was trying to grasp Prabhupada's point. "I understand, you know you were talking about the sea and so on, but it's for people to use ..."

"Use, you can use," Prabhupada said. "Tena tyaktena bhunjitha. That is the Vedic injunction. What is given to you, you use it. Just like one gentleman has got five sons. He gives one son 'This is your property. This you can use.' But the sons must acknowledge that 'This is father's property. He has given us'. Similarly, in the Vedic sastra, it is that 'everything belongs to God, and whatever He has given to you, you can use. Don't encroach upon others'."

Wally wondered how this philosophy could be applied to modern society. "How do you reconcile or how do you work out a situation .. If everything belongs to God, we have to run society, and ..."

"But you don't forget that everything belongs to God," replied Prabhupada. "Because you have to run society, it does not mean that you forget the real thing."

Wally admitted that he had no objection to the idea, but he still wondered how it could be put into place. "The thing is that the system we're working within has got different concepts ..."

Prabhupada was concise: "It should be rectified." He gave a contemporary example of how this could be done. "Now you have got the United Nations. Now, if they are sane men, they should pass a resolution: 'The whole world belongs to God and we are all God's sons. So, let us now make the United Nations of the World.' That can be done easily. If they can make United States of America, why not United States of the whole world?"

Wally agreed that it sounded like a good idea. "I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because ..."

"Yes," continued Prabhupada. "All problems. Now, suppose in India there is a scarcity of foodstuffs. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift -- we are all sons -- very nicely. Then all the problems will be solved. Now, the difficulty is that we have made: 'No, this is my property. We shall use it.' In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such concept. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national."

Wally was getting the picture. "You're thinking more of an international world than a national world? Well, I don't think anybody would disagree with that; I certainly don't."

"Yes," said Prabhupada. "That we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture and one activity. That is the ultimate end of the Krsna consciousness movement." Prabhupada gave the Melbourne temple as a practical example of the real United Nations. With a sweep of his hand he indicated the devotees who sat around, intently listening to the conversation. "Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that 'I'm American', 'I'm Indian'. No. We all think that 'We are all servants of Krsna'. And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nations, it can be done. But they will not accept. They are going to be united, but everyone is thinking: 'First of all, my interest.' All cheating. They are outwardly saying, 'Now we have come to the United Nations,' but no one is going to be united. Everyone is thinking: 'It is my interest first. I must give veto if he is opposing.' This is going on. Therefore, for the last twenty years, or more than that, they are trying to be united, but it is becoming disunited. The flags are increasing. In New York they have got their headquarters. When I pass through, I see that another flag has increased. So this United Nations is a failure, and it will continue to be a failure because there is no God consciousness."

The first step to unity, said Prabhupada, returning to his original point, was that everyone should be convinced or at least understand clearly, that everything belongs to God. "But they have no conception of God even. That is the difficulty. The whole human society at the present moment, the majority, they are Godless, especially the communists. They don't acknowledge. The scientists, the philosopher, the scholar -- all Godless. The scientists' special business is how to defy God. They say: 'Science is everything. We can do everything by science.' There is no need of God."

Wally wasn't so sure. "I don't think so anymore. They are a lot more enlightened. You can't say that scientists are working in a way that is opposite to God's will."

But Prabhupada was sure. "Yes, I have met many scientists. They say: 'We shall solve everything by scientific advancement. We have done already.' They say like that." Prabhupada described the recent incident in a university in California where his disciple Svarupa Damodara had challenged a resident scientist there that life had not come from chemicals. Svarupa Damodara had said to him, 'If you get the chemicals, can you manufacture life?' The scientist's answer was, 'That I cannot say'."

Wally laughed. "At least they're trying."

Prabhupada grinned widely, showing his teeth. "That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are a barrister. When you are a student of law, you cannot say that 'I'm a barrister', or 'advocate'. That you cannot say. You are trying to be. That is another thing. But while they're trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is misleading. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: 'One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men.' What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how will he do well to other blind men?"

The conversation again turned to matters of law. Raymond described an interesting follow-up to the glass-house theft. "The flowers were taken from two men that ran nurseries. And we had to go through an appeal finally to get heard. But just before the appeal came off, the boys needed a glass-house because of their special plants, which you've got outside here."

Srutakirti supplied the details -- "Tulasi."

"Yes, and they didn't know anything about glass-houses. So they were driving around and one said, 'Well, let's go and find out something about glass-houses. Oh, there's a nice nursery'." Prabhupada and the devotees laughed.

"So the car drives up, you see. The devotee comes out and he says, 'Excuse me, sir, but we're interested in glass-houses'. The man says, 'Will you please get off my land!' The same nursery. There were two hundred nurseries around the area and the devotee picked that particular one."

Prabhupada laughed so hard that his chest moved up and down, his wide smile revealing virtually all his teeth. After the laughter died down, Prabhupada added his Krsna conscious purport.

"But, if people would have been God conscious, they would have excused, 'Oh, they have come for God's service. All right, you can take.' Therefore, the first business is to make people God conscious. Then everything is adjusted."

The amiable conversation continued for a considerable amount of time. All the while the men were attentive and absorbed in the stimulating dialogue, while Prabhupada remained, as always, the gracious host. After giving each men plates of fruits and burfi and bidding them farewell, the devotees went downstairs for the evening arati ceremony.


- From "The Great Transcendental Adventure" by HG Kurma Prabhu