Transcription :  Ranga Radhika Dasi, Bhaktin Ramola, Shyama-Mohini Dasi, Sacikumar Dasa, Ramananda Raya Dasa

Editing : Hemavati Radhika Dasi

THE FOLLOWING IS A CLASS GIVEN BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CHARU SWAMI ON THURSDAY JULY 1^ST 2010, AT THE NORTH AMERICAN RETREAT, VRAJ, PENNSYLVANIA (RAMAYAN DAY 5)

Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Asatotara  Sri SrimanAbhayaCaranaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ki Jaya! Ananta kotiVaisnava Vrinda ki Jaya! Namacarya Srila Haridas Thakur ki Jaya! Premse kaho Sri Krishna Caitanya Prabhu Nitayananda Sri Advaita GadadharaSrivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda ki Jaya! Sri Sri Radha Krishna GopaGopinatha Syamakunda Radhakunda GiriGovardhana ki Jaya! Sri Sri RadhaMadanMohan ki Jaya! Sri Sri Gaura Nitai ki Jaya! Samaveta bhakta vrindaki jaya! Gaura premanande! Hari Haribol! All glories to the assembleddevotees! All glories to the assembled devotees! All glories to theassembled devotees! All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga! Allglories to Srila Prabhupada! Namo on visnu padaya Krishna prestayabhutale srimate bhaktivedanta svamin iti namine namaste sarasvate devegauravani pracarine nirvisesa sunyavadi pascatya desa tarine.

Hare Krishna.

So today is the last day of our seminar. Actually originally Ithought that on the last day I will divide you all into a few groups,maybe four or five groups and then ask you to discuss among yourselvesabout this topic ‘Understanding Sri Rama, Understanding Sri Krishnathrough Ramayana’ and then one person from each group would make apresentation kind of, have a sort of a workshop, like that.  But Icould not cover – the subject matter was so vast that I still haven’tcovered the last chapter. So if I can cover the last chapter quicklyenough, should we do something like that? How many of you would liketo, kind of, have a discussion among yourselves and make apresentation? Okay, two, three, and four… Up or down?  Okay. (Laughter) Thank you. Sunil Muni Prabhu said that they have time because lunch will be late today. (Laughter) Oh, I see. (Laughter) Okay, let us see how long it takes tocover this last chapter, Uttarakanda. How many chapters Ramayana has?Seven. So the 1st day we did 1st chapter, Bala-kanda. Then 2nd day wedid Ayodhya-kanda, and Aranya-kanda. Then the third day we didKishkindhya and Sundara-kanda and yesterday we did Yuddha-kanda. Areyou all happy that Ravana is dead? (Laughter) That is the main thingabout Ramayana, the conflict. Why does the Supreme Personality ofGodhead come? Why does He incarnate to this material nature?paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskritam So actually one of thereasons why Ramchandra went to the forest was to give His associationto the Sadhus, the saintly people. The saintly personalities, the Sagesand Brahmans, they all were in the forest and so, in order to associatewith them, Ramchandra – one of the reasons why He went to the forest.Of course there is a whole lot of intrigue behind that. And also theRakshashas, the demons were causing a lot of difficulties to the Sageswho used to generally live in the forest and Ramchandra killed them.And finally He freed this planet from the Rakshashas. How did you alllike the story? I mean, I am sure most of you knew Ramayana. How manyof you didn’t know Ramayana before? So all of you knew about theRamayana. So did it help – this discussion? And how did it help?

Rupanuga Prabhu: …..Inaudiable.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: You understood more. Okay. Rupanuga issaying there were more details. Anything else? KrishnaPriya? I wasthinking, When you were in Ujjain, there also, at that time I also gavethis seminar. So you heard it twice. Was it boring?

KrishnaPriya Mataji: …..Inaudible

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: I see. , and Oh I see, Okay. In Ujjain wehad more time? You mean that the description was more elaborate?

KrishnaPriya Mataji: …..Inaudible

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Okay, there, I think, we had seven days, here we had five days. There we had more time too.

KrishnaPriya Mataji: …..Inaudible

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Thank you. Any other comment from anybody?

Prabhu 1: …..Inaudible

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: (Laughter) Well, because it’s juicy (Laughter).

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yeah, Jaganath?

Jaganath Prabhu: Often for me I hear a story from the Ramayana overhere and a story from the Ramayana over there. This time I heard thewhole Ramayana, so the continuity was helpful. Thank you.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Ok, Yes?

Kapila Prabhu: Some people feel more comfortable with Rama’spastimes and they find that there’s a difference between Rama’sincarnation and Krishna. And this made it a little more clear that itis the same Supreme Personality but acting in a different role and howHe is the same Person but just changing the circumstances. So that madeit more understandable, that how if you love this Personality, then younaturally will love this Personality as well.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Thank you. Incidentally, Kapila is a verygood actor also. He’s not only a prasadam distributor and a bookdistributor; he’s a very good actor also. Maybe I should have toldYadunath about that. Yadunath is making a presentation tonight withChandrasekhar and Steve, I heard. And Kapila plays the role of Hanuman(Laughter) very nicely (Laughter) Do you remember the dialogues, Kapila? Maybe you can make some presentation tonight.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes, Jaya Caitanya?

Jaya Caitanya Prabhu: Hare Krishna Maharaj. This is actually thefirst time I realised the scope and perspective of how many years Ramawas on the earth and how long He ruled compared to how short… thiswhole Ramayana takes place in such a short portion of His life. I neverreally thought about the scope and perspective of that before. I thinkthat was my biggest really grasp on this time. And I also didn’t knowValmiki’s Ramayana didn’t have Laksmana drawing the circle. I was sofamiliar with that pastime. I didn’t know that was not part of it.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes, SyamaHari

SyamaHari Prabhu: …mentioned that you will be talking about service, meeting Rama.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes, somebody brought it up and we didbriefly discuss. Actually there are many things that I didn’t mention.And we also didn’t discuss about Ahalya. That’s another…Anyway, as Imentioned this idea; the purpose of these retreats or these seminars isto generate the interest in you to read the scriptures. Ultimately itis you who have to derive the juice.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes?

Mataji: …For me when you explained that’s a drama and we need tojust watch without questioning it and when I just listened, without,you know, just visualising it and not trying to logically understandingit, it was just really relishable.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Thank you. Yes, SyamaMohini?

SyamaMohini Mataji: Like was mentioned before, so many things manyof us were just brought up hearing which was not true and how youemphasise that we should stick to the books that are recommended by oursampradaya acarya. I thought that was a very strong point. Especiallywhen Ramayana is so commonly… like in India, everyone hears and says.That’s why it is very important for us to safeguard ourselves againstthat. Thank you.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Thank you. Yes, Steve?

Steve Prabhu: Hare Krishna, Maharaj.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Hare Krishna.

Steve Prabhu: One of the things that draw me to you is your kindnessand your just gentle peaceful way and you can describe Ravana eatingmonkeys and blood dripping down his mouth and yet you make it sound sosweet. (Laughter) So that’s very helpful to me. Hare Krishna.

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes, Pallavi?

Pallavi Mataji: Maharaj, after I heard the pastimes that you’veshared with us this morning, the kids were enacting the Ramayana drama.They were rehearsing it and there were a few things I was changing. AndVidhura came up and was asking “Ma, but this is how it worked”. Then Isaid ‘No, Maharaj said that is not what it is”. So what I’ve beentelling him all these years I had to say, ‘No, that’s what I said iswrong. But this is what it is. So there are few things…

H  Bhakti Caru Maharaj: For example?

Pallavi Mataji: One was the Laksmana rekha itself, because the kidswere doing that. The kids said, “No you shouldn’t”. Vidhura wasLaksmana – so he was drawing rekha and I said “Don’t do it.” And hesaid, “Why not?” And I said, “No, Maharaj said Laksmana does not dothat, so you shouldn’t be doing it that. The other one was he wasconfused about Indrajit shooting Laksmana and Laksmana falls down ontothe lap of Rama. That was something that I didn’t know that Ravanashoots Laksmana and then Hanuman goes and brings it. So those were thetwo instances I had to tell Vidhura.

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: Actually Indrajit also did that. You see,Indrajit when he first came to the battlefield, he actually injuredboth Rama and Laksmana with, you know, arrows empowered by Brahma. Andthose arrows were the snakes that became the arrows and bound them.That was when Garuda came and rescued. Another time, yes. Indrajit didencounter Laksmana also. But according to Valmiki Ramayana, the shaktiwas hurled by Ravana. And then Sushena suggests that Hanuman brings theherbs from the mountain and he carries the mountain. Valmiki Ramayanaactually describes Hanuman carrying the mountain twice. One time bothRama and Laksmana were wounded. Anyway these are certain descriptionsthat may differ and …Okay so Tulasi Ramayana says that Indrajit woundedLaksmana. Yes these are the things I don’t know why they… Say forexample that if he is a devotee of Rama, then why is he not acceptingthe authority of Valmiki? Because Valmiki is the authority. Ramayanacame to exist because of Valmiki. Of course there are otherdescriptions that in Puranas, they are like fillers. Valmiki’s Ramayanais the main content, the main substance. Yes?

Mataji: Guru Maharaj, I’ve heard before that some of these pastimesthat happen they happen in different universes and therefore some ofthem are varied slightly because they happen in different universes andwe get different information based on that. Is that true?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: That is yeah, that is okay. But thosedescriptions are generally the descriptions of Puranas. Not somebodycomes and gives a description and says it. The authority had to bethere. If the Purana there is some contradiction then we accept thatcontradiction as kalpabheda. That is called the difference of kalpa.But, you know, Tulsidas is not such an authority. So his businessshould have been to stick to the description. Of course Ramayana alsohas various other aspects from Puranas. Like which I was mentioningyesterday about Kaikeyi appearing as Devaki. That has been described inthe Puranas. Laksmana appearing as Balarama. That reason has beendescribed in the Purana. Why Rama felt so indebted that he did not wantLaksmana to suffer as a younger brother anymore. “Okay in My nextpastime, You become the elder brother, and I will be the youngerbrother”. So these kinds of things are there. There are some otherdescriptions also. Like Ravana goes to Bali Maharaj. And Bali Maharajadvises Ravana not to fight with Rama, telling him that, “Look I meanHe killed Hiranyakasipu and Hiranyaksa.” And he gave a whole lot ofadvice. Then there is the story of MahiRavana and things like that.They are there. But there as I said they are like fillers. And thebottom line is that from our Acharyas, Bhaktivinod Thakur and SrilaPrabhupada and Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakur, we have this thing,this comment or this understanding, that Tulasi dasas Ramayana is notreally bonafide, in that sense. But that has become most popular. Especially in Northern India.  In Bengal there is a Ramayana byKritrivasojya.  That is another Ramayana which is very popular to theBengalis. But that also has a lot of things that have been introducedthere, like Rama worshiping Durga. Now, in Valmiki Ramayana that is notthere. Yes, Ramachandra worshipped Lord Shiva that is understandable.But that is more like, again our understanding is that, not that Ramais worshiping Lord Shiva, therefore Shiva became greater than Rama.Ramchandra worships His devotees. Ramchandra that is the greatness ofthe Supreme Personality of Godhead. He establishes the supremacy or theappropriate position of His devotees. But that does not mean that thedevotee becomes greater than the Lord. The Lord worships His devotees.Sudhama went to Krishna. Krishna washed His feet.  Now, does it meanthat Sudhama became greater than Krishna?  Or, will Sudhama ever thinkthat He is greater than Krishna?  So, these understandings have beenclarified by the acaryas.  And, in the same Ramayana, Valmiki Ramayana,there is a description in Uttara-kanda that Lord Shiva came to fight onbehalf of his devotee when the challenge horse, the asvamedha-yajna wassent out. And the thing is that why was Lord Siva fought on behalf ofhis devotee? Because he wanted to have the darshan of Lord Rama.  Andthis is how sometimes the devotee fights with the Lord’s army. Like inKrishna’s pastimes also there are incidents like that.  Like SuvarnaSena, you know those of you who have been to Mayapur parikrama?  Do youremember Suvarna Bihar, a place called Suvarna Bihar?    Suvarna Senawas a king.  And when Yuddhistira Maharaja, the challenge horse wassent for Ashvamedha-yagya, Suvarna Sena actually captured the horse,challenged Bhima.  And he defeated Bhima.  And the purpose of his doingthat was to make Krishna come.  Because he knew that if Bhima is indistress then Krishna will come to rescue him.  So, that’s how he willget to see Krishna.  Also in Krishna’s pastimes we have seen how LordShiva came to assist his devotee, Banasura.  When Banasura was fightingwith Krishna, he came to side with Banasura and fight against Krishnaand he was defeated.  So Krishna defeated Lord Shiva, and then LordShiva came to his senses and begged forgiveness, saying that why do Iforget about your position. Like I have this Ishavara power that Ithink that I am the greatest.  And as a result of that I even fail torecognize You and fight with You. Any other comment?  Yes, Shantosh.

Santosh: With Bhagavad-Gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, we have SrilaPrabhupada’s purports, but for Ramayana, which purport can we refer?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaja: Actually, Bhagavad-Gita has a purportbecause it needs explanation, Srimad-Bhagavatam has a purport, but Idon’t think anybody gave any commentary on Ramayana in that way. Likeour acaryas have given commentary on Bhagavad-Gita andSrimad-Bhagavatam, but I don’t think there is any commentary as such byany of our acaryas.

Santosh: If we want to read Valmiki Ramayana is there any book which ISKCON recommends?

HH Bhakti Charu Swami: Valmiki Ramayana, in ISKCON there are threetranslations of Ramayana that I know, one was translated by KrishnaDharma Prabhu, and another one is translated by Purnaprajna prabhu. And later on I found out that Purnaprajna prabhus Ramayana has beenactually printed in the name of Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja.  But thatactually was the translation of Purnaprajna prabhu.  So, generally Ilike the one that is by Purnaprajna prabhu.  That is the one that Ihave been following.  , Purnaprajna prabhu is our God brother, he isvery scholarly and he translated Mahabharata also.  And the same iswith Krishna Dharma Prabhu.  And prior to that, when there was notranslation, the one that I used to like, was Kamala Subramanian’s, shealso translated Valmiki’s Ramayana, her writing was very nice,translation was quite good but in ISKCON we have these two translations: Krishna Dharma Prabhus and Purnapranja prabhus. Yes

Matajee: My question had to do where we were speaking about how Ramabanished the Rakshasa race. Then we see again in Krishna Lila theRakshasas are turning up again.  My question is two parts, one part ofmy question is when Vibhishan was put in charge of Lanka, when you havea devotee ruling the Rakshasas, or even like with Bali how does thataffect the Rakshasa-community?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: Yes, actually in English again, all havebeen lumped in as one, but there are things like asuras, Daityas,Danavas and Rakshasas.  They are generally of these four categories. Danus sons are Danavas.  Diti’s sons are Daityas.  Like Hiranyakasipuand Hiranyaksa are Daityas.  And the Rakshasa race actually came fromPulasta, Pulasta’s son is Vishrava and from Vishrava came Ravana, etc. Actually prior to that, from Pulaha there were two sons, Heti andProheti, from them the Rakshasa line actually started.  From them,there grandson was Malavan, Malavan’s daughter was Kaikeyshi. Kaikeyshi actually conceived three sons.  And they became Rakshasasbecause that mother’s line was Rakshasa.   The point is actually yesthat they were wiped out, but in Krishna’s pastime still they werethere.  Like Vibhishan was there and other Rakshasas were there butunder Vivishans rule they became quite civil.  Whereas under Ravanasthey were very, very heinous.  So, Kumbakarna and the Rakshasas arestill there but in Krishna’s pastimes we don’t come across upon so manyRakshasas as such.  What we come across are the asuras that is Kamsaand his associates, many of them are actually borne in the ksatriyafamilies but because they did not accept Krishna, or because they werenot following the injunctions of dharma, they were branded as asuras. Like for example Ravana was born in the same family as Surasena, Hecame as Surasenas son, in the same dynasty of course as the son of anaura’s this is how in Krishna’s pastimes we don’t find rakshasas assuch, we find asuras, Kamsa-asura, Agasura, Bakasura, Putana, yes,Putana is considered to be a rakshasi.  Maybe one or two were therelike that.  Or maybe the female asuras were described to be rakshasis. Like Trinavartasura, Agasura, Aristasura, Kesi-dhanava. Okay Yes?

Mataji: Hare Krishna Maharaj. When we chant the Hare Krishnamahamantra, that time we say Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare,So what Rama? Is this Rama or Radhika Ramana Krsna?

H H Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Hmm, very good. It will depend upon thesambandha jnana. With what understanding one is actually approaching.Or in simple words, we can say whose devotee he is. If he isRamacandra’s devotee it will be Rama, if he is Balarama’s devotee, fromthis Rama, he will understand Balarama. But if he is a Krishna devotee,then he will see Krishna as this Rama. You get the point? See the nameRama, the same name. Those who are devotees of Lord Ramacandra, theywill think that this Rama, Hare Rama is Lord Ramchandra. Those who areBalarama’s devotee, they will think that this Rama is Balarama, andthose who are Krishna devotees, they will see this Rama as Sri KrishnaHimself, as you said Radha Ramana Rama. So it is according to one’ssambandha jnana. Sambandha jnana means relationship that he has withthe Supreme Personality of Godhead. Accordingly he will see that. Yes?

Prabhu: In my childhood I used to do Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama RamaHare Hare Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. Then itgot… when I came to ISKCON I learnt the other way. So what is thechange or why? I mean, what is the difference?

H H Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Yes. My first question will be, in yourchildhood when you were chanting Hare Rama Hare Rama, which guru gaveyou this mantra?

Prabhu: No Maharaj, no Guru Maharaj, just family bhajans. We sit down with the family and do the bhajans.

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: Yes, so that is the point. You see, we takethe mantra the way the guru gives. The way to get the mantra is throughthe guru.  And then the next point is that in the scripture the mantraactually has been mentioned as Hare Rama Hare Rama. Hare Rama firstbefore Hare Krishna. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu presented it, He gaveHare Krishna first. And there is a saying that generally theunderstanding is that the mantra, Vedic mantras… only the Brahmans haveaccess to Vedic mantras. But since Caitanya Mahaprabhu was giving it toanyone and everyone, therefore He reversed the mantra to keep thehonour of the scriptures. The understanding is the scriptural mantrasshould be chanted only by the Brahmans. But when He was giving it toeverybody, He just reversed the mantra.

And we have to understand that in Kali Yuga this how the mantra is.Because Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave it in this Age, so this is how itshould be chanted. And ultimately when you chant whether Hare Krishnafirst or Hare Rama first, doesn’t matter. It is just going. In thecycle when you keep going do you know where is the beginning? YesHaritun

H Prabhu: Guru Maharaj, this is in continuation to Mataji’squestion. This Mataji with us. So when we consider Rama as LordRamchandra, then the Hare associated with that, would be Sita?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: That is Hari, then that Hare is Hari, not …

H Prabhu: When we say Hare Krishna, Hare refers to  Radharani and Krishna to Lord Krishna?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: Yeah, that is one way of seeing it. Anotherway that can… You see Hare is the vocative of Hara which meansRadharani as well as Hari. When you call out, sambodhan, vocative. Invocative Hari also is addressed as Hare and Hara also is addressed asHare. So in that case when sambandha is Rama, then this Hare willindicate Hari not Hara. Ha?

H Prabhu: Lord Krishna?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: No, not Radharani.

H Prabhu: Lord Krishna.

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: Hari. Hari. Vishnu. Narayana.

H Prabhu: For Balarama also, it will be same?

HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj: It will be same. Hari. There Hari,Balarama, Rama and so forth. Only in case of Krishna it is Hara,Srimati Radharani.

Hare Krishna. So, okay. So we just go into Uttara-kanda briefly. SoRamchandra has killed Ravana, rescued Sita. Then He came back toAyodhya. Yesterday we discussed all that. Then Bharata handed over thekingdom to Lord Ramchandra. For these fourteen years when Ramchandrawas away, Bharata was ruling the kingdom as Ramchandra’srepresentative, putting  Ramchandra’s wooden sandals on the throne. AndBharata did not stay in Ayodhya, the capital, but he shifted. He wentto Nandigram and there he was. From there he was ruling the kingdom.And it has been described that Bharata at that time also matted…Probably you remembered when Bharata went to Guha’s place? So thenBharata, when he heard Lord Ramchandra matted His hair, Bharata alsomatted his hair. Those days the ksatriyas used to keep long hair. Like,the way, we see the Sikh’s keep long hair, they are ksatriyas thereforethey keep long hair. Guru Govind Singh actually introduced that custom,which was actually the traditional. Kshatriyas used to keep long hair,because long hair they used to tie on top of their head and that usedto act as a helmet. They also used to wear turban. See how scientificall the customs are. So scientific! So they had long hair and the wayto mat the hair is, they used to put the sap of Banyan tree. Banyantree gives out a milky sap which is like glue. So that used to mat thehair. So Bharata matted his hair and he used the sleep on the floor. Heused to live in a cottage, sleep on the floor, not on a bed. He used tospread some kusha grass and he would lie on that. For these fourteenyears he just ate fruits and roots. No cooked food. So this is howaustere Bharata actually was. And this shows, actually in Ramayana,these characters are so illustrious. Bharata’s character is sooutstanding. Laksmana also. Like, I did not mention, that when Rama metSugriva and the monkeys, they actually saw, they recalled that they sawone Rakshasa was carrying one woman away through the sky. So he… whenSugriva… And then she dropped her ornaments, tied up with her uppergarment. And when they showed that to Rama, Rama recognised that theywere Sita’s. Then Rama asked Laksmana whether he also recognises themto be Sita’s, belonging to Sita. Laksmana could not recognise anything.Because Laksmana never looked up beyond her feet. Only when he used tocome every morning, offer obeisances to Sita, he used to see her feet.Although for fourteen years he was there with her, he never looked ather face. So he didn’t know which ornaments Sita was wearing. And itis… this is again not from Valmiki Ramayana but is from one of thePuranas. In Uttarakanda, it has been described that when Agasta wasdescribing, he described that the biggest impediment to winning thebattle was actually Indrajit. And only Laksmana could kill Indrajit. Ofcourse Rama could kill anybody. But the way the situation was; onlyLaksmana could… Because Indrajit had a condition, when he asked thebenediction from Brahma that he asked. One of the conditions he hadthat only a person who had been a brahmacari for fourteen years and whodidn’t eat anything for fourteen years could kill him. And it wasLaksmana. So it was considered why Laksmana is considered to be abrahmacari? Because a brahmacari never looks at a woman according tothe strict standard. But Sita was there so how can it be consideredthat Laksmana was a brahmacari? And then it has been replied thatalthough Sita was there, but Laksmana never looked at her. So Laksmanawas a perfect Brahmacari. Then Rama told ‘Everyday I used to give him afruit.’ And then Laksmana said ‘Yes, You gave me a fruit saying that“Laksmana, take it.” So I took it but I never ate it.’ So, anyway theseare the illustrious personalities whom.., I mean only the SupremePersonality of Godhead and His expansions can act like that. Suchloyalty, such dedication.

Where did you get this yellow dhoti, Syamlal? (Laughter) Where did you get the brahmacari dhoti? Oh, okay. (Laughter)

Anyway so, these are some amazing acts in the pastimes of the Lord’sassociates. Then Hanuman also, you can see what an illustriouscharacter. And the question now arises, I mean, Are they real? Now it’sleft up to us, whether we are going to accept it or not. And those whoare devotees, those who are properly situated on the conviction of thescriptures, they will accept them as the truth and nothing but thetruth. So, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was then coronated on thethrone. Bharata handed the kingdom over to Him. And Rama was coronatedon the throne. And then one day Rama was informed by Laksmana that theSeven Sages, Saptarsis and Dhoma, Kanva, Kausika and other such greatsages also came. Agastha, so they came. So Ramacandra immediately wentand received them and with great respect He invited them to the palace.So when they all sat down they started to glorify Lord Ramacandra. Theythanked him for ridding the planet of the miscreants, Raksasas andspecially Ravana. Because Ravana had been tormenting the saintly peoplefor a long time. Even the demigods couldn’t deal with him. SoRamacandra came to annihilate and they recognised that Rama is theSupreme Personality of Godhead and they started to glorify Him in thatway. And then this question actually came up when Agastha Munimentioned about Indrajit. And it was practically impossible to defeatIndrajit. Indrajit defeated Indra. Ravana defeated all the demigods. Sowho could actually deal with them? Ravana also did not defeat Lord Sivabut he challenged Lord Siva. Although he was smashed after thatchallenge. But then he became a pet of Lord Siva. Lord Siva is Asutosa,One who becomes pleased very quickly. And the demons often takeadvantage of that. As a matter of fact, most of the demons are Siva’sdevotees. Not that all the devotees of Siva are demons, but the demonsmostly are devotees of Lord Siva. That is because they can get theirbenedictions very quickly from Lord Siva. And Ravana praised Lord Sivawhen he was smashed. Actually maybe I will come to that, in course oftime. In course of description I will describe that. So Ramacandraasked, ‘Why are you saying that?’ So then he gave the history of theRaksasas, Agastha. And he described how Ravana was born, which Ibriefly mentioned yesterday. The original Raksasas who were Heti andPraheti and their three grandsons became very, very powerful, Malyavan,Sumali and Mali. And for the Raksasas, Visvakarma actually built Lanka.And so they started to torment the saintly people in such a way thatVishnu came. And in a battle He defeated them. And out of fear ofVishnu, they ran away from Lanka and they went to the netherworld,Rasatala.

They were residing in Rasatala and in the meantime the sage Pulastyahad a son called Visrava. And Visrava got married to Bharadvaja’sdaughter and a son was born. His name was Vaisravana. Visrava’s son isVaisravana who assumed the position of Lord Kuvera. Kuvera is thetreasurer of the demigods and he also was a Lokapal. Brahma was verypleased with him and Brahma awarded him one of the most exaltedpositions among the demigods. And Kuvera received Pushpaka chariot fromBrahma. And when he asked his father where he should reside, VisravaMuni told him that Lanka is now vacant so he could occupy Lanka. So hewas in Lanka. This Lanka was built by Visvakarma with pure gold and soMalyavan had a daughter, Kaikashi. And he was looking for a suitablehusband for Kaiskashi. And when he came out of the lower region and hecame to the upper part of the universe, then he saw Vaisravana flyingin a chariot. And he was quite impressed with that. And upon enquiring,he found out that Vaisravana is the son of Visrava.

So he then… he thought that Visrava is a suitable husband for hisdaughter and he also felt that only his son can bring him suchprosperity to the Raksasa dynasty. So thinking that, he sent hisdaughter to Visrava. And Kaikashi approached him and Visrava seeing hercould understand why she came. And he told her, “I know why you came.So I will fulfil your desire. But because you came at an inauspicioustime, your children will be Rakshasas. Your children will cause a lotof distress to the people, to the living entities. So she was unhappywith the idea. So she said, ‘Please don’t make my sons as suchmiscreants.’ Then he said that, ‘It is going to happen but since youwant a pious son, good offspring, your third son, youngest son will bevery, very virtuous.’ And in course of time Ravana was born. Ravana wasborn a hideous looking creature with ten heads and twenty arms. Andbecause he had ten heads, his name actually was Dasagriva. Dasa meansten, and griva means head, ten headed. Dasananadasagriva. And then thesecond son was Kumbhakarna. And the third son was Vibhisana. Vibhisanawas virtuous, very pious. So all three went to perform austerities,because they knew the way to get power is through performance ofausterities. So Ravana performed austerities for ten thousand yearswithout eating and drinking. Terrible austerity actually. And not onlythat, at the end of every one thousand years, he would cut off one headand offer it to Brahma. And when finally on the ten thousandth year,when he was about to chop off his tenth head, then Brahma came to himand asked him, ‘What do you want?’ So he said, ‘Make me immortal.’ SoBrahma said that, ‘I can’t make you immortal. Even I am not immortal.At some point I also have to die. In this world everyone has to die.’So then Ravana told, ‘Okay. Give me the benediction that I will haveimmunity to, from all the demigods, the Raksasas, the Daityas, theDanavas, the Nagas, the Kinnaras, Gandharvas and all. But he forgot toask about the humans … Not forgot. He thought the human beings are soinsignificant there is no need to ask any kind of immunity from them.So at that time Brahma actually told that he should be careful abouthuman beings because… So Ravana said, ‘Yes, I don’t care about thehuman beings.’ And then when Brahma was about to give benediction toKumbhakarna, so Kumbhakarna already created so much distress. Like, hehad eaten up so many Apsaras, so many Gandharvas and… That the demigodswere very afraid. That without even getting any benediction he iscausing such distress. So when he gets the benediction what willhappen? So they approached Brahma and said, ‘Please do something aboutit.’ So then Brahma called Sarasvati and as I mentioned yesterday, thenSarasvati entered into Kumbhakarna’s mouth and just made him say, ‘Iwant to sleep.’ (Laughter) ‘Let me sleep.’ But then Kumbhakarnarealised what has happened. And Ravana appealed to Brahma that, ‘Pleasedo something here. I don’t know why he asked such a thing. This isobviously he didn’t ask for such a benediction. (Laughter) For the sakeof such a benediction, he performed such great austerities.’ So thenBrahma said, ‘Okay. He’ll sleep for six months and then stay awake forone day. After six months he will stay awake only for one day. And thenwhen it came to Vibhishana, Vibhishana just said that, ‘Please blessme. Give me the benediction that I never deviate from the path ofdharma. And I should always remain fixed in the injunctions of thescriptures.’ So Brahma granted.

And after that Ravana became extremely powerful and extremelyarrogant. And then after Malyavan got to know that Ravana got thisbenediction from Brahma, so he told him that, ‘Now go and take awayLanka from Kuvera.’ So Ravana first said, ‘He’s my half brother, elderbrother. How can I fight with him?’ But then Malyavan reasoned with himthat, ‘Look you have…. There had been many instances where brothershave fought with each other. And he gave the example of Diti’s sons andAditi’s sons, the demigods and demons, Daityas and Adityas.Hiranyakasipu and Hiranyaksa fought with their brother Indra. So beinginspired by Malavan Ravana attacked Lanka. He first sent Prahasta hiscommander in chief to Kuvera saying that he wanted to have Lanka and heshould either vacate Lanka, leave Lanka or he should fight. So Kuveratold that him why should we fight? And after all this place had beengiven to me by my father, so I have right to stay here. But if Ravanawants we can share this place and live here peacefully together. WhenPrahasta was gone Kuvera went to his father Visrava and told him whathappened. Visrava said that Ravana already came to him and made thisrequest to him. So, Visrava chastised him and after being chastised hebecame even more arrogant. So he said, just leave Lanka and go toKailash. Upon being instructed by his father he left Lanka to Ravanaand went to Mount Kailash. Kuvera was a great devotee of Lord Siva sohe took shelter of Lord Siva. And then Ravana started to rule overLanka and tormenting this people those who have accepted the authorityof the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is where actually theconflict starts.

They want to establish themselves as the supreme whereas thedevotees of the Lord do not want to accept that. And as a result ofthat they become their enemy. They think that by performing yajna theyderive their power, these personalities, and the devotees. Thereforethey try to plunder their sacrifices and kill them and eat them up.Then one day, when he saw Kuvera was flying with the pushpak chariot,he wanted to have the pushpak chariot, Ravana. And he approached Kuveraand fought with him. And in this battle Kuvera was wounded and thenfinally Ravana actually took away the chariot. With the chariot he wasflying over the sky and at that time all of a sudden his chariotstopped and Ravana wondered what happened. Then Lord Siva’s associateNandi came out and told him, ‘please don’t go any further, this isKailash, the abode of Lord Siva. And he is sporting here with Parvatiso no one should disturb him. Ravana was so arrogant, he asked, ‘who isSiva? Who is Shankar? I will kill him.’ Nandi tried to make himunderstand Lord Sivas’s position but Ravana became very arrogant. Heinsulted Nandi. Nandi’s face was like that of a monkey. He laughed atNandi and Nandi cursed him. That face, which you are laughing at, thecreature with that face, is going to defeat you in a battle. I couldhave killed you but I won’t do that. Because unnecessarily I don’t wantto dirty my hand. So Ravana became so arrogant that he wanted to liftMount Kailash and when he lifted Mount Kailash, when he was trying tolift Mount Kailash, and lifted Mount Kailash, Kailash shook andParvati, sitting next to Lord Siva, lost her balance and she justgrabbed Lord Siva out of fear and losing her balance. So, seeing thatLord Siva understood what happened, with the tip of his toe, he justpressed the mountain and that mountain crushed Ravanas hands and Ravanascreamed, his scream was so loud that even Indra stumbled, hearing thesound when he was walking down. Ravana was in great difficulty so hisministers, knowing Lord Siva, one who can be very quickly pleased byglorification that, they asked Ravana to sing Lord Siva’s glory andRavana started to sing Lord Sivas glory. Ravana by the way is a verygood musician also. In this way, Ravana for a long, long time he kepton singing the glory of Lord Siva and Lord Siva was finally pleased andreleased the pressure and Ravana could free his hands from thatsituation being crushed by the mountain. In this way Ravana became LordSivas devotee. And then when Ravana was flying over the Himalayas hesaw this extremely beautiful girl alone, performing austerities. Ravanaimmediately approached her and proposed to her. And she very politelytold that who she was. She was the daughter of King Kushata, who becamea brahmarshi. Her father wanted her to get married to Vishnu and that’swhy she came to Himalayas to perform austerities to find Vishnu, to getVishnu as her husband. But Ravana tried to persuade her to go with him,saying ‘who is Vishnu? I’m the greatest!’ As I told earlier that thedemons have that tendency. That’s their mentality. They think that theyare the greatest, they are the supreme enjoyer. Yesterday somebodymentioned that Ravana is symbolising lust – Kama. Ravana actually wasextremely lusty. Wherever he would see a beautiful girl he would juststeal her. Not only abduct her but before doing that he would kill allthe relatives and then abduct her. So, when Ravana tried to forciblytake her, then she left her body with a curse that she would come againafter giving up this body and she would be the cause of Ravanas death.And then she appeared on a lotus as a little girl, Vedavati. So Ravanatook that girl with him but his ministers could recognize that thislittle girl is going to be the cause of Ravanas destruction. So theytold Ravana to get rid of her. So, then Ravana threw her on a lotus inthe ocean. And eventually this girl appeared in king Janaka’ssacrificial area. On the tip of his plough, that is Sitadevi.

So in this way Agastha told about Ravana’s exploits. Another thinghe described was in the Iksvakhus dynasty there was a king, anillustrious king called Anuranya. And Ravana was challenging theksatriya kings, the demons and the demigods and everywhere he wastravelling over the three worlds challenging different people. So, in abig battle, in a very fierce battle, Anuranya was mortally injured. Andbefore dying Anuranya told Ravana, that a personality would appear inhis dynasty that was going to kill him.  So, in this way Ravanareceived two curses, Sita’s curse and Anuranya’s curse. Another timewhen Ravana was in the Kailash, then he saw Ramba going, the celestialdamsel, apsara. And Ravana forcibly molested her. So Ramba then went toher husband Nalakuvera and narrated him the whole story. So, she alsocursed him, Ravana. Brahma also cursed Ravana that, if you forciblytries to molest any woman, then his head would split into pieces. So,in this way Ravenna’s history was described. At that time, anotherpersonality that Ravana had an encounter with, was Bali, Sugriva’sbrother. And this also I described yesterday. Bali was so powerful thathe took Ravana under his arm and went around the universe like; thereare four oceans in four sides, southern side, western side, northernside and eastern side. So then, after that, Ravana was so impressed sohe asked him who he was and he made friendship with him. And so in thisis how Bali and Ravana became friends. So at that point Lord Ramchandraasked Agasta that Sugriva was Hanumans friend. When Sugriva was drivenaway by his brother and his wife was taken over by him, then Hanuman,who is even more powerful than Bali, why did he not reinstate Sugriva.Then Agastha told the story of Hanuman, which also I’ll skip becauseyesterday I narrated that story. Hanuman’s birth and how Indra hurledVajra, and Hanuman died and then his father Pavana, the took him to acave and Pavana started to withdraw from everything. And when the lifeair was withdrawn, everyone was suffocating. So, then they allapproached Brahma. Then Brahma, understanding the reason, he told them,that it is Pavana’s doing. And so, Brahma took them all to where Pavanawas with Hanuman and Brahma revived Hanuman and told the demigods thatthis monkey is going to benefit you, he came here for your welfare. So,you all bless him. Then different demigods blessed Hanuman withdifferent benedictions. And in this way, Hanuman became extremelypowerful. Already he was so powerful that with one jump he couldactually go to the sun planet, just after his birth. And now, aftergetting all these benedictions, we can well imagine how powerful hebecame. And being so powerful, he used to, as a little child, he usedto create disturbance to the sages in the forest. So, the sages made acondition that Hanuman would forget about his power, until LordRamchandra came. So the point is that this power that Hanuman had, wasactually for assisting Lord Ramchandra. It is often seen with thedevotees also, that before they become devotees, they do not displaytheir actual qualities, but after they become devotees, then all of asudden their wonderful qualities become manifest. So in the case ofHanuman that was very, very significant. That’s why Agastha told Him,that Hanuman was not aware of his power. He just considered himself tobe an ordinary monkey. But it is only when Jambavan reminded Hanuman,who he was and what his power was, he became aware of it.  And toassist Lord Ramchandra he performed all kinds of wonderful feats.

Then, one day Ramchandra was sitting with Sita. At that time Sitawas pregnant. And they were in the garden, they were talking.Ramchandra asked, what do you want? Is there anything that you want?Then Sita told that she wanted to see the ashramas of the sages on thebank of Mandakini. Ramchandra noted that that she wanted to see theashrams of the sages. The next day, Ramchandra called his spies andasked them to tell Him how the citizens are feeling. So, differentspies gave their descriptions, they are all very positive. People areso happy, they are so prosperous. But the sixth spy actually told abouta washer man, what he told his wife. He suspected the character of hiswife and then he told her that do you think that I am like Rama? Thatalthough his wife was kidnapped by somebody and stayed in his house forso long and still he accepted her back. I am not going to accept you.When the spy heard that, he was about to kill that person, pulling outhis sword. But he remembered that in his kingdom no one should bekilled. So, he restrained himself. And Rama recorded that incident. Thenext day He told Laksman to take Sita, He decided to banish Sita.Anyway, you all know that incidence. I don’t want to elaborate on that.And personally I find this part is so painful that I don’t even like torecall them or dwell on them. So, Sita was taken by Valmiki Muni in hisashram. And the ladies of the ashram were taking care of Sitadevi.

And at that time some sages came and reported to Rama that a demonis causing a lot of disturbance in Madhuvan. So Rama sent Satrughna toget rid of the saintly people, the rishis. So Satrughna went and he gotrid of the demon. And he stayed there for twelve years. So, whenSatrughna came, in the mean time Ramchandra was feeling very distresseddue to killing Ravana. So, when He was lamenting in this way about hissinful act about killing Ravana, a Brahman. Ravana was actually aBrahman, a son of a Brahman. Then Vasistha suggested that He performedthe horse sacrifice. So, the arrangement was made to perform the horsesacrifice at an auspicious moment. The challenge horse was sent out.The horse went all over. Some kings surrendered to Rama, most of thekings allowed the horse to go through their region without anyobstacle. But some kings obstructed the horse. And as I mentioned itwas mainly due to getting the darshan of Lord Ramchandra.  The partyconsisted of Satrughn, Satrughna was leading, assisted by Pushkal, theson of Bharata and Hanuman.  And Sugriva also was there. Finally thehorse came to Valmiki’s ashrama. In the mean time, Sita devi gave birthto a twin. And Valmiki got them sanctified with kusa grass. The eldestson, with the tip of the kusagrass, he brushed his body. That’s why hisname was Kusa, the eldest son was known as Kusa. And the younger sonwas brushed by the bottom of the kusa grass. That’s why his name wasLava. So Kusa and lava were the two brothers, the two sons of Rama.

So Lava was with the sages in the Valmiki ashram, he saw the horse.So, he saw the horse, he was quite impressed with that horse.  And thenhe saw on the head of that horse, on a golden plaque, it was written,that this horse belongs to Rama, Lord Ramchandra, for the sacrifice ofAshvameda yajna. And it is guarded by Satrughna. Those who accept theauthority of Rama, they would let the horse pass. Otherwise, Satrughnawill deal with them. And seeing that, Lava became quite excited, so heheld the horse.  And he tied him up on a tree. So searching for thehorse, when the party came and they found that Lava has taken the horsein captivity, so they first appealed to him to release the horse. ButLava would not listen. So a big fight actually ensued between Lava andRama’s army, headed by Satrughna. And in the battle Satrughna waswounded, Hanuman was wounded, Sugriva was wounded, Puskal was wounded,but finally when they came back they regained their consciousness andin the later onslot Lava was defeated. When Lava was defeated andunconscious, he was brought back to Valmiki’s ashram, at that time Kusacame back from a pilgrimage. And when Kusa saw Lava’s condition hebecame furious. So he went to fight against Satrughna. And he defeatedSatrughna and Rama’s army. And he tied up Hanuman and Sugriva together.(Laughter) And he brought Hanuman and Sugriva tied up together to theashram of Valmiki.  Both of them were unconscious. So Sita recognizedHanuman and Sugriva. She asked: “What happened ?” So he told whatactually happened, about the horse and the horse was led by someonecalled Rama. So Sita told him that that is your father. And these arethe monkeys, Hanuman and Sugriva, so release them. And in this way,Hanuman came across Sita again and he worshiped her. So did Sugriva.And the report, message went back. And they already noticed, Satrughnanoticed, that this boy, when he saw Lava, it looked exactly like Rama,when Rama was young.

So, finally Valmiki told them, who they were. Then Rama sent hisenvoy to take Sita, along with Lava and Kusa. Then they came back,brought back to Ayodhya. And Valmiki also came with them. So Rama againexpressed His concern about what people may think about Sita, becauseshe was in the house of Ravana for so long. He proposed another firetest. This time, Sita could not tolerate that. Sita prayed to Bhumi,mother earth to take her back. So, earth split and mother earthpersonified came out and took Sita back to her.

And in this way, Rama ruled for eleven thousand years. And then,once time personified appeared on the request of Lord Brahma. Brahmatold time personified to come and tell Rama that the purpose has beenserved. So, on His request He came and now He can go back to Vaikuntha.So time personified came to Rama and told Him that I have somethingvery confidential to discuss with you. And when I am talking to you,nobody should come in the house, in the room. And if he came, then youhave to banish him forever. So Rama agreed and told Laksman: “Laksman,get rid of the guard and you guard the door.” So, Laksman was standingguard and time personified, Kala Purusha, told Rama, gave, conveyedBrahma’s message to Him. That the purpose of your coming has beenserved. Now you can go back to Your abode. So, when they werediscussing, Durvasha Muni came there, who was known for his anger andcurse. When he came, he told Laksman, that he wanted to see Rama. So,Laksman told him, that Rama is having a discussion with somebody and Ihave been told to stand guard. And no one should come. Durvasha becamevery angry. He said: “Go and tell Him, otherwise I will curse that Ramaand everyone will die!” So, Laksman thought that better I take thecurse, then others and everybody else. So he went inside and told Rama.And Rama told him that “Why did you come?” He told him that Durvasa wasso upset. So then Rama had to banish Laksman from Ayodhya. Laksman leftAyodhya and he went to the forest, which means actually that He wentback to Vaikuntha. And then after that Ramchandra also decided to leavethis material nature. So He divided His kingdom, and He gave thenorthern part of His kingdom, Koshal, to Kusa and the southern part toLava. And He walked away from His kingdom. When He was walking, all thecitizens were also following Him and eventually Rama entered into theriver Sarayu. And in this way, Rama entered into the spiritual sky. Andit has been said that those who were following Rama also went to thespiritual sky. In this way, we have to understand that Ramchandra camewith His associates from the spiritual sky and after performing Hispastimes, He went back to the spiritual sky. Sri Ramchandra Ki Jaya!Jaya Sri Sri Krishnacandra Ki Jaya!