HH Bhakti Caru Swami Maharaj – Sunday Morning, 10 Jan 2010
South African Retreat, Drakensberg,

Transcribed by Haripriya Devi Dasi
Editing : Ramananda Raya Dasa

Hare Krsna,

So we were discussing about Srila Prabhupada, my experiences and associations with Prabhupada.

So from Mayapur Srila Prabhupada went to Bombay. The main reason forPrabhupada’s going to Bombay was a big Pandal program in Cross Maidan.In the main city of Bombay there is a large park called Cross Maidan. Aprogram was arranged for Srila Prabhupada for three nights in CrossMaidan. When Prabhupada arrived in Bombay the devotees drove SrilaPrabhupada to his quarters. In Bombay Prabhupada used to previouslylive, he had his quarters in one of the old buildings. Actually Bombayproperty had many apartment buildings and there were many tenants also.So Prabhupada used to live in one of the apartments, when he used to bein Bombay. So devotees drove Srila Prabhupada to his old apartment.

And Prabhupada asked what happened to his new apartment. And thedevotees told that it was not ready at that time. Prabhupada said,ready or not he was going to stay there. And Prabhupada insisted. Nowprobably you have seen Prabhupada’s apartment in Bombay temple, the topfloor of one of the towers is Srila Prabhupada’s apartment. Prabhupadajust insisted on staying there now. The apartments were not ready. Thelifts were not ready, and it was on the fifth floor. And the doors werenot fixed and, it was, But Prabhupada just insisted he wanted to staythere.
And then Tamal Krishna Maharaj actually made, Prabhupada went up thereand the work was still going on. The floors were not (inaudible).Prabhupada just insisted that he wanted to stay there. And then TamalKrishna Maharaj suggested that since the program is in the city, CrossMaidan, maybe it is better for Prabhupada to stay in the city insomebody’s house.
He already phoned someone, one  very important man in Bombay who had abig palatial building, I mean, not palatial building, he actually had apalace. He was like a king. His name was Bhogilal Patel. So first TamalKrsna Maharaj contacted Bhogilal Patel but Bhogilal Patel was not inBombay at that time.  Finally it was arranged that Prabhupada will stayin Kartikeya Mahadevya’s house, another life member, who was very closeto Srila Prabhupada and a very important person. He had a verybeautiful apartment on the beachfront, sea-facing. It was veryluxurious apartment buildings. And so arrangement was made thatPrabhupada would stay there in Kartikeya Mahadevya’s house. SoPrabhupada moved in there with a few of us. Three of us were there withPrabhupada, Tamal Krishna Maharaj, myself. At first NavaYogendraMaharaj, no NavaYogendra didn’t come yet. Bhavananda Maharaj joinedafter a few days. And so three of us moved in with Srila Prabhupada andmyself, three of us, moved in that apartment. Kartikeya Mahadevya withhis family moved out, he vacated the apartment for Srila Prabhupada andus. And he moved in, in the same complex in some other apartment. Ithink they had some relatives and the whole family moved in there.
So Prabhupada stayed in Kartikeya Mahadevya’s house for a few days and every evening Srila Prabhupada used to go to the program.
And this was a very successful program. There were thousands of people,used to participate, must have been about close to 10 000 people usedto attend the program every night. And from that program I remember afew things, a few incidents that were very memorable.

One day, one evening Srila Prabhupada noticed that an Arab gentlemandressed up in Arabic attire, like the way the Arabs dress, long kurta,Al khanna they call it and then the head is covered with a ring on top,all white. So the man was standing there in the crowd. And Prabhupadasent one of his sannyasis to bring that man on the stage. He was aMuslim. Prabhupada brought him onto the stage. And Prabhupada startedto have some exchange with him. And it turned out that that person wasthe Police Chief of Kuwait. He was the Chief of Police of Kuwait. Hecame to Bombay for some treatment and that evening was the first timehe was allowed to go out of the hospital. He just came for a walk inthat park, and he saw this gathering. And out of curiosity he just camethere and Prabhupada just invites him onto the stage.

Prabhupada had some very sweet exchange with that person. Prabhupadanoticed that that person had a set of beads in his hand. So Prabhupadaasked him, ‘What is that? What do you do with that?’ So he saidsomething like, he just fiddles around with that. And Prabhupada showedhim his beads. He said, ‘I also have one.’ And then Prabhupada pointedout that these beads are meant for chanting the Holy Name of the Lordand keep count. And Prabhupada pointed out that, ‘Your beads also ismeant for that. It is meant for chanting the name of Allah and keepcount of that.’  And Prabhupada said that he didn’t have any bead bagor that sort of thing, it was some sort of stone kind of beads, acrystal. And then Prabhupada said that, ‘That is a very sacred thingand it must be kept in a sanctified way and that’s why we put it in abead bag, so it does not become exposed to any unclean thing.’  And soin this way Prabhupada had very sweet exchange with this man.

And it was quite an impressive sight also that here is SrilaPrabhupada, a big spiritual leader with his followers from all over theworld spreading Krishna consciousness all over the world. And next tohim there is this Arab gentleman, obviously a Muslim, sitting,Prabhupada invited him to come onto the stage. I think Prabhupada evenasked him to speak but that man did not want to speak. He had somereservations because he was from Kuwait and from a Muslim country andhe was the Chief of Police there so he didn’t want too much publicityalso.

So that shows how broadminded Srila Prabhupada is. Just as I think,yesterday or the day, before in the offerings one of the devoteesmentioned about the reporters in San Francisco, when asked aboutconflict, possible conflict between different religions. Prabhupada’sreply was, ‘No, all the religions are speaking about God. They arepropagating the teachings of God, glory of God, so why should there beany conflict?’ But the conflict is due to misunderstanding or nounderstanding about God and all kinds of claims that my way is the onlyway. Then only the trouble starts. At some point you may have to saythe our way is the way, because if the others are not in the name ofGod consciousness, if they speak all kinds of nonsense then somebodyhas to go and correct them. So that way there may be some conflict. Butif all the religions are speaking about the Supreme Personality ofGodhead then there is no possibility of conflict. This has been veryclearly indicated time and time again by Srila Prabhupada through hisactions.

I also remember once Prabhupada was having some discussion with somereporters. And they actually challenged Srila Prabhupada. No, I’m sorrythey were actually, they were not reporters, they were Christianpriests, Catholic priests. They asked Srila Prabhupada, ‘Why are youconverting the Christians into Hindus?’ Prabhupada’s response was, ‘No,I am not converting Christians into Hindus or Muslims into Jews. I amsimply making better Christians out of Christians, better Jews out ofJews and better Muslims out of Muslims, better Hindus out of Hindus.Prabhupada is situating them in their perfect identity. Jesus came andspoke. Who is a Christian? A true follower of Jesus Christ is aChristian. And what did Jesus preach? Jesus simply spoke about God, theFather. Who is God the Father? Are there many Fathers? Are there manyGod, the Fathers? There is only one God, the Father. So that God, theFather is Krsna. Who is Allah? Is there any difference between God,Allah, Krishna, Jehovah? So we have to understand that essential truth.If that essential truth is properly understood, then there cannot beany conflict between different religions.

Anyway this broadness has been very clearly indicated but at thesame time Prabhupada also maintained a very strict understanding ofKrishna. Like, at the beginning, when Prabhupada was establishingISKCON, and he declared that the name of the institution will be TheInternational Society for Krishna Consciousness. Then many actuallysuggested that better would be to call it The International Society forGod Consciousness. But Prabhupada was adamant, ‘No, InternationalSociety for Krishna Consciousness.’ And there is reason that SrilaPrabhupada did that. People may not understand Krishna, that Krishna isGod. Prabhupada said, ‘I have come here to to make everybody understandthat Krishna is God.’ That was Prabhupada’s mission, to make everybodyunderstand that Krishna is God.

And many times Srila Prabhupada dealt with this issue. Sometimesespecially when he was dealing with the Christians, Prabhupada used toask that, ‘You speak about God? Who is God? What does He look like?Where does He stay? What does He do? So if you do not have anyinformation about Him but if I have some information, if I provide theinformation then why shouldn’t you take it? You do not have anyinformation. I have the information. So you have to accept that I knowbetter than you. You are speaking about God but you do not have anyunderstanding about God. You are speaking about God but you do not haveany information about God. So why don’t you accept? Why don’t you takean honest stand? And accept that, “Okay, I don’t know about God andhere is the information about God. Let me honestly accept it.” Butinstead you just keep on saying that, “My God is the only God.” But youdon’t have any understanding of God. Who is your God? You just have thethree letters, God. What does He look like? What does He do? Where doesHe live? No information. So if somebody comes and provides you someinformation, why don’t you accept it?’

So in that respect, Srila Prabhupada was very strong. That, ‘If youwant to know about God, come to me. If you want to know about God, cometo me. I can tell you what He looks like, what His name is, where Helives, what He does and I can even give you His phone number.’ So thisis how Srila Prabhupada was very clearly and emphatically establishingKrishna Consciousness.

Anyway so another incidence in that program I remember that somebodyin a rather challenging way he was  asking, ‘Why don’t you worshipRama? Why you always worship only Krishna?.’ Prabhupada said, ‘No, weworship Rama also. Our understanding is Rama and Krishna is the sameSupreme Personality of Godhead. When we are chanting Mahamantra, we aresaying Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama.’  And so the man was quiteargumentative and Prabhupada became more and more upset the way the manwas. And Prabhupada’s voice became louder and louder. And finallyPrabhupada was screaming at him, although physically Prabhupada wasquite weak at that time.

Prabhupada’s health condition was quite weak. When he used to come,actually when Prabhupada was in Mayapur, his health conditiondeteriorated considerably. Previously Prabhupada used to walk on hisown. But in Mayapur, we had to kind of, hold Srila Prabhupada when hewas walking. There was one way we used to hold Srila Prabhupada when hewas walking. Prabhupada used to have his stick. He used to hold thestick with his right hand and we used to hold Prabhupada. With theright hand we used to hold him around his waist and with the left handwe used to hold him on his shoulder. And this is how we used to givehim the support, when he used to go to bathroom, or any place. When heused to go down to give class or went to attend some programs in thetemple, then Prabhupada was carried in a palanquin. There was a thingmade, It was a chair made with handles and a few devotees used to carrySrila Prabhupada down the stairs and up the stairs.

So in Bombay other sannyasis, actually Tamal Krishna Maharaj andBhavananda used to go beforehand to the program and then at some pointPrabhupada and I used to go to the program. I used to assist SrilaPrabhupada. So Prabhupada’s health condition was quite weak andPrabhupada was giving the class. And he used to sit there. He used tosit there quite hunched and weak with his physical frailty.  But thenas Prabhupada would start to speak, his body would become straight. Andthen finally Prabhupada was practically sitting at the edge of hisseat, straight and erect as a bolt, and screaming with a pitch, at thetop of his voice, chastising. And I remember, the people also became soupset with that man, they practically carried him and threw him out ofthe crowd.

So, sometimes Prabhupada in India especially, sometimes Prabhupadaused to have this kind of  confrontation with the people. It’sunfortunate that such a glorious country with such an inconceivablespiritual asset, that some people are just so adamant and unwilling torecognise the greatness of a saintly person like Srila Prabhupada. Attimes I lament that when Prabhupada was on this planet so few Indiansrecognised Srila Prabhupada’s greatness. Nowadays we hear so manypeople come and say, ‘Oh, I met Swamiji.’ If you met Swamiji, then whydidn’t you come and help him? Why didn’t you surrender to him? You metSwamiji but what was the use of that meeting?  Some bed bugs also metSrila Prabhupada. (Laughter) So anyway this is the misfortune that theycouldn’t recognise Srila Prabhupada’s glory, Srila Prabhupada’sgreatness and take advantage of that. Srila Prabhupada often used tohave this.

Anyway I was just thinking  Prabhupada used to go out in the morningwalks. So in Bombay I heard Prabhupada used to go for morning walks.And those morning walks were very interesting. But I didn’t have thegood fortune to go out with Srila Prabhupada on the morning walkbecause those days when Srila Prabhupada was in Bombay, he didn’t goout on a morning walk. That is because his health condition was so bad.But sometimes when Srila Prabhupada would go back after the program Iwould go with Srila Prabhupada and then he would lie down on his bedand I used to massage his feet.

One day Prabhupada was asking, ‘So how did you like my lecture?’ SoI said, ‘Prabhupada it was very nice.’ And then Prabhupada said, ‘Whatwas so nice about it?’ Then I related whatever I recalled. AndPrabhupada was very pleased.

Then after the program was over, Prabhupada came back to Bombaytemple, Juhu temple, and Prabhupada’s apartment was complete by now.Complete in the sense, yeah, more or less complete. Only the lift wasnot in full operation. The lift was used only when Srila Prabhupada hadto use it, at the beginning. When we went down, and up, we went onfoot, climbed the stairs on foot. And those days, so, just TamalKrishna Maharaj and myself.

When Prabhupada was in Kartikeya Mahadevya’s house Prabhupada oneday suggested that Upendra should be called. Prior to that Hari SauriPrabhu was Prabhupada’s personal servant and Prabhupada appointed HariSauri Prabhu as the GBC of Australia. That’s what Prabhupada used todo, either the GBC used to be Prabhupada’s servants and secretaries orthe servants used to be promoted, when at some point Prabhupada used tomake them into, give them some service, important service, like makethem GBC. So Hari Sauri Prabhu was serving Prabhupada and whenPrabhupada was in Bombay, he made Hari Sauri Dasa GBC for Australia andso there was a need for someone to serve Srila Prabhupada and UpendraPrabhu was called in. He was probably in Fiji or some place of thatkind. I don’t know where he was. I never met him before.

So one day, one fine morning he just arrived. He was very efficient,very competent servant of Srila Prabhupada. He left his bodyunfortunately.  And he came. And so three of us were there, TamalKrishna Maharaj, Upendra Prabhu and myself were serving SrilaPrabhupada. I was kind of stand by. Although Prabhupada made meSecretary of Indian Affairs but I used to do whatever.

My day was something like: At 7 o’ clock I used to get all thenewspapers, daily newspapers. Prabhupada wanted me to get the dailynewspapers. And 7 o’ clock I would go to Srila Prabhupada with thenewspapers. And I used to read the headlines. And if Prabhupada likedsome interesting news, Prabhupada wanted me to read them. And I used toread them. And sometimes Prabhupada used to make comments.

Like, one day Prabhupada was telling me how degraded the Nehrufamily was. At that time Indira Gandhi, I think Indira Gandhi called aState of Emergency in India. So Prabhupada was telling how degradedthat family was. Prabhupada knew the family from Allahabad. The Nehrufamily’s originally from Allahabad. Prabhupada also used to live inAllahabad. It seemed that he knew that family quite well. And that wayPrabhupada pointed out that India’s situation was so bad that a personlike Nehru as the leader of the nation, and then his daughter now isthe leader of the nation. And at that time Sanjay Gandhi, IndiraGandhi’s son was making a lot of disturbance all over. And finally hedied in a plane crash. Sometimes Prabhupada would make some interestingcomments.

Then one day some very important people came to meet SrilaPrabhupada. They were Sriman Narayan and Ram Krishna Bajraj. SrimanNarayan was the Governor of Madras and Ram Krishna Bajraj was thechairman of Bajraj Industry, a very big industry. They werebrothers-in-law. And Bajraj’s sister was married to Sriman Narayan. Sothey were very fond of Srila Prabhupada. So one day they came to seeSrila Prabhupada. When they saw that Srila Prabhupada’s healthcondition was not so good, they suggested that Prabhupada went toRishikesh, on the bank of the Ganges. And they felt that this change ofclimate and going to the bank of the Ganges would be good forPrabhupada. Prabhupada also appreciated that proposal. He liked it. Hetold that he’d never been to Rishikesh before. And he liked the idea ofbeing on the bank of the Ganges. So Ram Krishna Bajraj and SrimanNarayan made arrangements for Srila Prabhupada. They were very wellconnected. It was not their house but one of their acquaintance’shouse. A house called Ganga Darshan, a very beautiful two-storeybuilding right at the bank of the Ganges. It was arranged for SrilaPrabhupada.

In the meantime when we were serving Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada’scook was Palika, one of our godsisters, American godsisters. She usedto cook for Srila Prabhupada. And I used to serve Srila Prabhupada. Sheused to cook and then exactly at twelve o’ clock, I would take theprasadam plate to Srila  Prabhupada. Prabhupada didn’t have much of anappetite. So he was hardly eating.

One day I saw that Prabhupada was not eating. He couldn’t eat. Hewas trying to eat. Actually what happened is, that day Palika was sick. So another godsister of ours was asked to cook for Srila Prabhupada.And when Prabhupada was eating, Prabhupada couldn’t eat. So I askedSrila Prabhupada, ‘Prabhupada, it was not? She didn’t cook properly?Prabhupada said, ‘No, she doesn’t know how to cook.’ And then I justspoke up. I said, ‘Srila Prabhupada, should I cook for you tomorrow?’Prabhupada said, ‘Yes, you can try.’

And the next day Srila Prabhupada taught me how to cook somepreparations. He just told me how to cook. He was having his massage.Upendra Prabhhu was giving him the massage and Prabhupada just asked meto get the vegetable and mustard oil, red chilli, turmeric. And thenPrabhupada told me how to cut the vegetables, how to spice them. And Icooked, then I served. And Prabhupada ate quite well.
After serving Srila Prabhupada I was in the kitchen, cleaning thekitchen, cleaning the pots. So Upendra just came running to me. Hesaid, ‘Hey, Prabhupada told me to taste the food. He liked it. He askedme to taste it.’  So I gave it to Upendra.

So that afternoon Tamal Krishna Maharaj when he went to SrilaPrabhupada to read out the letters and take dictations from SrilaPrabhupada, Prabhupada told Tamal Krishna Maharaj also how he liked mycooking.  How well I cooked. So Tamal Krishna Maharaj also came andtold me  ‘Prabhupada really liked your cooking.’

Then the next morning I cooked. The next day I cooked. Prabhupadatook a bite and he was very upset. He said, ‘You don’t have anystandard. One day you cook nicely, I praise you and next day you aregone.’ So I was feeling very bad that I displeased Prabhupada. Then thenext day I cooked, this time I was cooking very, very carefully not tomake any mistake because I knew that if I made a mistake that day thenI would lose my service of cooking for Srila Prabhupada. I mean, I usedto actually really intensely desire that maybe I could cook for SrilaPrabhupada some day. When Palika used to cook I used to try out somepreparation. One day I cooked some kofta and served Srila Prabhupada. Ididn’t tell him that I cooked. But Palika tasted that and she told meit was very nice. So in this way I was kind of, trying some differentpreparations.

Anyway when I cooked for Srila Prabhupada the next day and I cookedvery very carefully, not to make any mistake. And then I served SrilaPrabhupada. And when I saw that he was eating I got a little courage.So I asked Srila Prabhupada, ‘Prabhupada, is the cooking alrighttoday?’ Prabhupada said, ‘Yes, today it is alright.’ That’s how I gotthe service to serve Srila Prabhupada. I cooked for Prabhupada.

And then Srila Prabhupada left for Rishikesh one day. We all flewfrom Bombay to Delhi, Tamal Krishna Maharaj, myself, Upendra Prabhu andPrabhupada. We stopped in Delhi for one night. And the next morning wedrove to Rishikesh. Prabhupada stayed in Rishikesh for a few days andwe used to have a lot of fun. Some other devotees were already there tomake the arrangements. Like, Trivikrama Maharaj was there and PramanaSwami, Viraha Prakash. And Pradyumna Prabhu came. Pradyumna Prabhu wasPrabhupada’s Sanskrit editor. So Prabhupada used to affectionately callhim Panditji. Panditji means scholar, pandit.

So one day, it was an Ekadasi and we were not informed about it andsome devotees broke the Ekadasi. So Prabhupada was very upset. And hesaid, What is the point of having Pandit with us if you can’t even tellus when is Ekadasi?’ So then Prabhupada said, ‘Okay, we broke theEkadasi, so fast tomorrow.’  So Prabhupada told us to fast the next day.

Another person that was there, was Jadhubara Prabhu. He wasshooting, filming Prabhupada’s activities. So in this way we werethere. I don’t even remember for how many days we were there inRishikesh. Time just,  Our time was revolving just around SrilaPrabhupada. Then from morning till night I was busy. Especially frommorning till noon after Srila Prabhupada took prasad. I used to servehim also prasad.

Then one day Srila Prabhupada  was upset with me because I couldn’tmake the chapati properly. Then Prabhupada said he would come and showus how to make the chapati’s. He came to the kitchen and he rolled thechapati’s. Prabhupada was very particular about chapati’s, that thechapati must swell up fully. If the chapati didn’t swell up, didn’tpuff up, then Prabhupada didn’t like it. And the chapati had to behot.  What I used to do is, Prabhupada hardly used to take any rice. SoI would serve the prasad with one chapati. Serve the plate, bring theplate to Srila Prabhupada. Then after serving Srila Prabhupada I usedto just go  run back to the kitchen, and roll another chapati and thenbring that. So this is how I used to just make fresh chapati. And ifone chapati didn’t come out alright then I was in trouble, because thetime it used to take for Srila Prabhupada to eat one chapati, the sametime it used to take for me to make one chapati. (laughter)

So one day the weather turned very, very severe, there was a veryheavy storm and there was torrents of rain. And as a result of thatstorm, the electricity got disrupted, electric supply got disrupted.Some poles got uprooted. Those days in India, in that area, theelectric cables were actually supported by some wooden poles, not evenmetallic poles. There was no electricity and the whole day it wasraining, there was ghastly wind. I remember there was such sound, sucha heavy sound of the wind blowing. And Prabhupada was feeling veryuneasy. So that night I was attending Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada justcalled me and told me that the time has come for him to leave his bodyand he wanted to leave his body in Vrindavana. So we must take him toVrindavana immediately. So I ran downstairs and woke up Tamal KrishaMaharaj and told him what Prabhupada said. And Tamal Krishna Maharajalso ran upstairs and Prabhupada told him the same thing. ‘The time hascome for me to leave my body. I want to leave my body in Vrindavana. Soplease take me to Vrindavana immediately.’

So that night only we packed everything.  Initially we thought thatwe would take Srila Prabhupada by train, because the train ride wasrelatively more comfortable than car ride. And in the train Prabhupadacould also lie down. So Tamal Krishna Maharaj and I went to the railwaystation thinking that we will arrange, we will reserve some seats inthe first class compartment and take Prabhupada in that way. But whatto speak of one full compartment, there was not a single seat availablein first class.

So we gave up our plan and we came back. And we arranged to takeSrila Prabhupada by car. So that night Srila Prabhupada stayed inDelhi, stopped in Delhi and next morning Prabhupada left forVrindavana. And in Vrindavana the devotees didn’t know that Prabhupadawas coming back. And all of a sudden they got the news that Prabhupadawas coming, so they became very, very excited. There were many devoteesin Vrindavana at that time. So Prabhupada just arrived and they were soecstatic that Prabhupada came.

So Prabhupada’s coming was always a very exciting affair. Devoteesoften used to speak also,  ‘Prabhupada is coming. Prabhupada iscoming.’ Prabhupada’s coming was always a very very exciting andinteresting affair. So I could see that. Devotees were waiting forSrila Prabhupada. When Prabhupada came they were so ecstatic. They weretaken to the temple room, followed Srila Prabhupada to the temple roomand had an ecstatic kirtana. Prabhupada greeted the Deities. And thenafter that Srila Prabhupada went to his quarters. All the devoteesfollowed him. And when Srila Prabhupada went to his quarters anddevotees, Prabhupada sat on his vyasasana, all the devotees sat there.

And Prabhupada broke the news why he came to Vrindavana. And theirecstacy of the devotees immediately turned into agony. The devoteeswere so bright with excitement but then as soon as they received thenews that Prabhupada came to leave his body, tears just came streamingdown their eyes. Seeing that Prabhupada started to console them. Hestarted to tell them that how, he quoted that verse, dehino ‘smin yathadehe. And he elaborated that this is our situation in this materialnature, dehino ‘smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara. The body ischanging. And tatha dehantara praptir, there will be a time when wehave to change the body, dehantara, transmigrate the body. And dhirastatra na muhyati, a person who is situated in proper knowledge, hedoesn’t become affected by that, he doesn’t become bewildered by that.

And then Srila Prabhupada, when everybody left, Prabhupada told me,‘From now on you don’t cook for me and you don’t force me to eat.’  Andthen he said, ‘What’s the use? What’s the point in eating when there isno appetite.’ So it came to me just like a final ultimatum. Prabhupadais saying, ‘Don’t cook for me.’ And I felt that now Prabhupada is goingto prepare himself to leave his body just by fasting. I thought ofPariksit Maharaj, the way he just sat down and stopped eating.  So Iimmediately went and told Tamal Krishna Maharaj. He also felt sofrustrated and said, ‘What to do now?’ He doesn’t know. ‘He is justgoing to stop eating.’ There was nothing that we could actually do.

In the meantime the news spread about Srila Prabhupada’s conditionand devotees started to come in from different parts of the world. Theyhad a meeting and then they decided that we cannot now, we cannot letSrila Prabhupada go. We just like a bunch of children and if SrilaPrabhupada leaves then we will become orphans. And Srila Prabhupada isa pure devotee of Krishna, so if Prabhupada wanted, then Krishna willfulfill Prabhupada’s desire.

So with that, the devotees approached Srila Prabhupada, went, Afterthe meeting they all walked into Srila Prabhupada’s room. AndKirtananda Swami, as the spokesperson of all the devotees, hepresented. I was not there for the meeting, I was (unclear) with SrilaPrabhupada. Kirtananda Swami and all the devotees came. So KirtanandaSwami started to tell Srila Prabhupada how we are like a bunch ofchildren and if Srila Prabhupada left, then what would happen to ourspiritual life? And we will become orphans (unclear) will we know howto face that situation in Srila Prabhupada’s absence? Then Prabhupadachanged his mind and Prabhupada said, ‘If you all so desire then I’llstay.’ Then everybody became so ecstatic. Prabhupada decided to stay.So I will stop now.

Because Srila Prabhupada is always with us. Prabhupada never left.Srila Prabhupada is with us. He gave us the assurance that he wouldalways stay.

Yes, Syamalal Prabhu?

HG Syamalal Prabhu: Maharaj, you didn’t give that, Rishikesh inVrindavan, when Prabhupada said that he wants to  give you sannyasa.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Oh.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: That part is important for your disciples and (inaudible).

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: It was in Vrindavana, Prabhupada, when hecame to Vrindavana from Rishikesh, one day Prabhupada decided to givesannyasa to two persons, Bhakti Caitanya and Bhakti Prema.  BhaktiPrema  was already a sannyasi. He was translating Prabhupada’s books inHindi. He was a Mayavadi but by coming in contact with SrilaPrabhupada, he became somewhat of a devotee. His name was Prema Yogiand Bhakti Caitanya was Caitanya Guru He was a GBC member. SoPrabhupada was to give them sannyasa and at that time Prabhupadadecided to give me also sannyasa.

So all of a sudden I got to know that Prabhhupada decided to give mesannyasa. When the news got around there was some objection. Someleading devotees felt that I was too young to be get sannyasa, I wastoo new in the movement. Because it was just a few months I was in themovement. I got first and second initiation during Gaura Purnima onlyabout two and a half months ago. So they were opposed to the idea. Theyfirst told me that I shouldn’t take sannyasa. I said, ‘Fine.’ But atthe same time I was feeling a little bad also. But I just didn’t sayanything. Some of them even told me about the procedure, which is youhave to wait for ten years to get sannyasa.

But then I was cooking for Srila Prabhupada in the kitchen. ThenTamal Krishna Maharaj and Bhavananda Maharaj came to me. And TamalKrishna Maharaj broke the news that  Prabhupada decided to give mesannyasa. And he told that they went to tell Prabhupada not to give mesannyasa, but Prabhupada over-ruled their objection.

And I was cooking for Srila Prabhupada and I was going to getsannyasa the next day. So I cooked. I served. And after serving SrilaPrabhupada I went to Loi bazaar to buy the bamboo sticks and cloth andeverything. Pramana Swami actually helped me wrap the danda. And thenext morning I got sannyasa. And right after sannyasa I went to thekitchen to cook for Srila Prabhupada (laughter). And, Ya. It was verysudden. All of a sudden, Srila Prabhupada decided that he would give mesannyasa.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: It is our great fortune to have you in(inaudible) the South African devotees. Srila Prabhupada had so much oflove for Bhakti Caru Maharaj. And my first time I was watching him. Iused to be travelling with some of the macho devotees in ISKCON.  ?Gargamuni and like that.

But I have seen Bhakta Kishor to become Kesava Gopinath within avery short time. He was working very very wonderfully in serving themission of Srila Prabhupada. Whatever the service was given, taken veryseriously. And sometimes I used to watch. Maharaj used to come toCalcutta from Mayapur. Whatever service, whether it was printing orbuying raw materials for the construction, but every midday, I used tosee him,  he used to come, have his bath. He’s very brahminical fromthe day one. He had that quality of the brahminical. So SrilaPrabhupada as a trikalagya, who could see past, present and future ofhis followers, recognised that person, how important to have him. Andhe is our spiritual leader. And everybody in the world of ISKCONrespects him on that.  Not only philosophically, his presence, physicalpresence and that way he presents, talks to the devotees. The devoteeslove that art. I’m one of them. Please bless me, Maharaj.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Hare Krishna.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: You have so much mercy to distribute.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Syamalal Prabhu has always been a very bigdevotee. As he said when I was just  Bhakta Kishor, Syamalal Prabhu wasa big preacher of ISKCON. Syamalal Prabhu also served with suchdedication and often I consider the greatness of  Syamalal Prabhu. Hejust kept on serving. He never really aspired for position or things.Often I wonder it’s fortunate that Prabhupada gave me sannyasa. Bygiving me sannyasa Prabhupada actually closed the door behind me. I hadnowhere to go. I had to stay in ISKCON. But Syamalal Prabhu in a simplebut humble way is just continuing to serve. He had always been thebiggest preacher of ISKCON. (Applause) He opened so many new fields.When I say biggest preacher, he is also one of the biggest collectors.(Applause) That way I can recall, another person, who was a very bigpreacher in ISKCON all along and big collector, is Giriraj Maharaj.(Applause) When I was thinking of Bombay situation, Giriraj Maharaj wasthe leader of Bombay. And Prabhupada had so much confidence in him. Iremember when Prabhupada was forming different trusts. In all thetrusts, Prabhupada mentioned Giriraj Maharaj. And from that I couldunderstand that how much trust Srila Prabhupada had for GirirajMaharaj. In every trust he’s put Giriraj Maharaj and Tamal KrishnaMaharaj. These two personalities are there in all the trusts by SrilaPrabhupada.

And about my coming to South Africa, actually Syamalal Prabhu is theperson who brought me to South Africa. (Applause) I never thought ofcoming to South Africa. Because my passport, As soon as I open mypassport it had a very clear writing. It said, ‘Valid for all countriesexcept for South Africa.’ So just seeing that I always used to thinkthat that is one country I’ll never be able to go. And then in ’89,there was some problems in South Africa. And that year I was theChairman of the GBC. So I was in Belgium at that time. I received aphonecall from Syamalal Prabhu. For years I didn’t hear from him. LastI saw Syamalal Prabhu was in mid-eighties when  Syamalal Prabhu was inLondon. I remember  Syamalal Prabhu had a Volvo car, fancy-looking car.And he used to go from morning till evening preaching.

HG Syamalal Prabhu:  Actually that was late 70′s.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Late 70′s? Which year did you come to South Africa?

HG Syamalal Prabhu: I came in 1982, in January.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Okay. so it must be ’80, ’81.

HG Syamalal Prabhu:  ’79.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: You left in ’79?

HG Syamalal Prabhu:  I left in ’80.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Okay. Anyway, something like that.

So Syamalal Prabhu was a big life-member maker. And he was not onlya life member maker, Syamalal Prabhu used to take care of all of lifemembers, preaching to them. He is the one devotee who made life membersand then took care of them. This culture is practically lost in ISKCONtoday. Like we make life members but we don’t cultivate them, don’ttake care of them.

Anyway, so Syamalal Prabhu, that was for about 8, 9 years I didn’thear from him, because he got lost in South Africa actually. So I got aphone call from Syamalal Prabhu. And he wanted me to come to SouthAfrica.  I said that I can’t come to South Africa because my passportwon’t allow me. He said, ‘Don’t worry. I will make all thearrangements.’ And in the meantime that year during the Gaura Purnimafestival, Sri Hari and Tribhanga, I got to meet three, four of you.That was in ’89, March, Gaura Purnima. And they invited me to alsocome, but I never took it that seriously.  They kind of came and metme, and spoke about South Africa. But Syamalal Prabhu, he just made thearrangements for me to come. And I came. And I used to know the Consul,Indian Consul of Switzerland at that time, one Mr Kumar. And I spoke tohim and asked him whether I could go to South Africa. He said, ‘Pleasedon’t do that. Please don’t go.’ He warned me that if the governmentfinds out that I went to South Africa, they may revoke my passport. SoI was even more worried. But Syamalal Prabhu just kept on insisting. Hesaid, ‘No, there won’t be any stamp on your passport. The visa will beseparate. You have to collect the visa when you come to South Africa.In the airport your visa will be there. They will stamp on the paper.He gave me the whole procedure. So, and I came. And I feel veryfortunate that I came. And Syamalal Prabhu created that good fortune.It’s undoubtedly, it’s one of the most beautiful countries with mostbeautiful devotees. Not many places in the world has such wonderfulcongregation, collection of devotees.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: I remember that you all of sudden you decidedthe date you wanted to come. That’s the slot you had only, otherwiseyou can’t make it. It was so short that I called up Pretoria. SouthAfrican Home Affairs. And I spoke to Mrs van der Merwe and I said, ‘MrsSo-and-So, two months ago I applied for Mr. So-and-So’s visa and Ididn’t hear from you. And he’s ready to fly tomorrow and what are yougoing to do about it?’ ‘Oh! Okay, we’ll give you the visa.’ I said,‘No. Make sure the visa is ready waiting for him at Counter number 6.’I still remember that I that I told you, ‘You go and collect at Counternumber 6. Your visa will be ready.’

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Thank you. Hare Krishna.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: And we are so fortunate. It’s not that I havedone. It is Srila Prabhupada wanted you to be here. (Applause). Thesituation was (inaudible) And so also until today Maharaj comes hereand we are also together in Spain.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: He took me to Spain also ! (Laughter)

HG Syamalal Prabhu: Thank you, Maharaj. Your blessings we always look forward to.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Hare Krishna.

HG Syamalal Prabhu: Hare Krishna.

Prabhu: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaj. Some time ago HG Hari SauriPrabhu on his  visit to South Africa and he was speaking about hisdiaries. And then I had a chance to speak to him. And he told me thereis a gap between the notes of the diaries he took and the time ofdeparting of Prabhupada. Then Tamal Krishna Maharaj started thediaries. And it seems as though after listening today, there is quite abig gap. You are one of the few persons around who can give us all thatinformation in telling the stories. So this is a humble request to giveit to us sometimes.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: I’m giving it to you. (laughter)

Prabhu: (inaudible) …You will speak it and somebody will write it. Thank you, Guru Maharaj.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Hare Krishna. Yes?

Mataji: Maharaj, You served Prabhupada so much by cooking for him.  What was his favourate sabji?

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Prabhupada liked eveything that was cooked nicely.

Mataji: But I am sure he liked something.

HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj:  One preparation that Prabhupada taught me,he was taking. Two things  Prabhupada took rather quite continuouslyfor some time. One thing is called Paati Charchari. The firstpreparation that Prabhupada taught me. It is made with potatoes andparval. Do you know Parval? Do you get parval here? Parval is somethinglike tindora (= ghilora). You get tindora’s here. Like yesterdayBhagavati made some preparation with tindora for me. But do you getparval here? Parval is something like tindora’s elder brother.(laughter).

Anyway so Prabhupada showed me how to make that.  Like, you cut the,not take the skin off but take the outer coating of the skin by rubbingit with the back of the knife, not the sharp side but the blunt side.You rub it so the outer [thing?] [layer?] comes out And then you cut itin dices, about ¾ inch round and then the potatoes are also cut in thesame size, about ¾ inch cubed. And then Prabhupada asked me to put alot of turmeric. And then he asked me to break the red chillies in thesize of about ¾ inch and put a lot of chillies, a lot of turmeric, alot of red chillie.  Then Prabhupada asked me to bring the can ofmustard oil. That mustard oil was not meant for cooking. That mustardoil we were carrying for Prabhupada from Calcutta for his massage,(laughter) and he asked me to bring that container. And he asked me toput a lot of mustard oil. I poured. And I thought I’d poured a lot andstill  Prabhupada didn’t say anything. So I thought maybe Prabhupadawas not watching. So I tilted the tin back and stopped pouring. ThenPrabhupada shouted at me, ‘Why did you stop pouring?! Keep pouring!’(laughter) So I kept pouring and then finally Prabhupada said, ‘Okay.’And then he told me to put water, just to cover the vegetables. So thatit’s just submerged, the vegetables. And then, put salt and then heasked me to put it on the fire. Then he said that the water willevaporate. The bottom of the thing will start to burn, making a soundlike ‘chat, chat, chat, chat’. And the white steam will start comingout from the pot. So at that time you take it off the fire and cool itfor some time. And then scrape it from the bottom. Actually whathappens, a lot of turmeric settles at the bottom, making a layer. Andthe water is dried out and so now it is only oil that is there.  Itburns but it doesn’t burn. It actually starts to fry it. It burns alittle but it creates a crust. So when you scrape it from the bottom,the crust actually breaks and so Prabhupada taught me to cook that. AndPrabhupada liked it. Prabhupada liked it so much that for days togetherI was cooking that same, Prabhupada asked me to cook that. Everymorning I used to go to Srila Prabhupada and ask Srila Prabhupada whatI should cook. And practically every day Prabhupada told me to cookPaati Charchari.

So Tamal Krishna Maharaj became quite worried that Prabhupada waseating mustard oil so much. So he tried to persuade Prabhupada not totake it. But then Prabhupada was quite insistent. So then Tamal KrishnaMaharaj requested Prabhupada that at least cook it with ghee, not withmustard oil. And then Prabhupada agreed. And from that time on westarted to make it with ghee. Lot of ghee, lot of chilli, lot ofturmeric. So that is one preparation that Prabhupada (inaudible) quitea lot.

And once in Rishikesh, Prabhupada asked me to cook that preparation.And Prabhupada’s stomach was not very good at that time. So I thoughtit won’t be proper to put so much chilli. So I didn’t put the chilli. Iput one or two pieces. And when I served Prabhupada, Prabhupada wasvery upset with me. He just kept on telling me that, ‘I personallytaught you something, and you forgot? I personally taught you and youforgot? How can you forget when I personally taught you?’ And this wayfor two days, each time whenever I went to Srila Prabhupada, he blastedme. (laughter)  And then on the third day, when the blasting was notthat heavy, so then I told Srila Prabhupada that I didn’t actuallyforget. I deliberately didn’t put the chilli thinking that his stomachwas not very good. Then Prabhupada said, ‘Then why didn’t you tell meall this?’ (laughter)
Then Prabhupada told me that when you put a lot of ghee, you should puta lot of chilli because the chilli and the ghee counteract each other.Both are hot but when you put a lot of chilli into a lot of ghee, they counteract each other in effect. So you going to cook it? (laughter)Okay.

Another preparation that  Prabhupada taught me was, you takepumpkin, radish, eggplant and bitter melon. You cut them in about1/2inch pieces and put a little chaunce and cut ginger and chaunce thenyou put the vegetables.You just stir it up a little bit, fry it alittle bit. And then you put spinach and you cook it. The water comesout from the spinach and with that water the vegetables get cooked. Andthen before you take it out of the fire, you just put paste of gingerand paste of cumin, you add it with water and pour that water in that.That preparation also Prabhupada liked it very much. When he taught methis preparation, then for many days Prabhupada used to take thispreparation every day.

Okay. Thank you very much. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Mataji: Maharaj, is (inaudible) radish long one (inaudible) ?
HH Bhakti Caru Maharaj: Long white radish.

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