The laugh, the gentleness, the calm- throughout our interview, he would erupt into the best, the deepest belly laugh I’ve ever heard; as if joy were welling up so powerfully deep inside that it just had to be released. He laughed a lot and spoke with great wisdom.
“Both of my parents were born in the Chicago area. I was born at Passavant Hospital, (now Northwestern Hospital). When I was little, we lived in the Rogers Park area, and when I was four, we moved to Highland Park, where I was brought up until the age of 19, when I left on my spiritual quest through Europe that led me to India, where I live now.”
But what little boy wants to be a Swami when he grows up? Richard Slavin was a little boy of the Jewish faith, being raised on the near north side of Chicago, in a neighborhood called Rogers Park.
“Well, when I was a real little boy, I wanted to be a baseball player. We used to play baseball in the empty lots. Nelly Fox, with the Chicago White Sox, was like a hero to me when I was just a little boy. And as I got older, I think I wanted to be a business man like my father. He was an Edsel dealer, and later on, he had an auto repair company.”
And then?
“And then when I became a teenager, something happened. Something happens when you become a teenager in America, especially, in the 1960’s. At that time, I was working in a car wash, in Highland Park, and most of the people who were working with me were African-Americans from the south side of Chicago, and they were all about the age of my father.
We became really great friends- I was about 15 at the time, and they were just such good people and they loved me and I loved them, and I saw how beaten down they were; what they did, where they lived, and there really wasn’t the freedom that our country promises people, for them. There was racism, discrimination, poverty, and I saw the effect this had on them. It created big questions in my mind. Really, what is freedom? Why is it like this?
Being of a Jewish family, I was also hated by people because of that, of being different, and it hurt me. And I was trying to understand. I took an interest in the Civil Rights Movement. I listened to Martin Luther King. The Vietnam War was raging. When I was 18, I was eligible for the draft, but when I went to be tested, I didn’t qualify.
It’s not that I was so much against the war as I didn’t understand why we were there. Why were we being forced to kill or die for something we didn’t believe in? So I entered into the counterculture; and through music and peace and love and intoxications, we were told that we were going to find real answers to the problems in life. But as it went on, I came to the conclusion that the same kind of ego and selfishness that we were revolting against was among the people of the counterculture. It seemed like the same problems, just in a different dress.
I just didn’t know where I fit in- I didn’t seem to fit in my parent’s generation. I didn’t seem to fit in my own generation. Little by little, this took me into a spiritual search for understanding; a search for meaning and fulfillment. I heard it said if we do not have an ideal we’re willing to die for, we really don’t have anything very meaningful to live for.
I remember hearing the words of Mahatma Gandhi that we should be the change we want to see in the world. And it just made so much sense. I wanted to change myself. Otherwise, what substance did I have to change anything or anyone else? This thinking was gradual. It began like a little spark that grew to become a spiritual quest. It was when I was in Europe with my friend Gary that it grew into a blazing fire.” This was the beginning.”
The story of this quest is written in “The Journey Home – An Autobiography of an American Swami”; a book which would never have been written if his friend had not explained to him how it was his duty to write about his experience.
What would be your advice to someone who would like to do what you did? If a seeker wanted to go on such a quest today, would it be possible?
“Times have changed a lot since the 60’s and the early 70’s, there was a lot of adventure and a lot of searching among the younger generation. And that was special. It was dangerous then, but maybe in a different way. It certainly could be done at this time. I wouldn’t advise hiking through Iran and Afghanistan these days, but the spirit of putting oneself on the line, searching, for something meaningful and fulfilling in life is something that’s there for every human being at every stage of their life, at any time.
Anything we try to do is going to be received in different ways by different people. It is important to understand that spirituality and our relationship with God is something that’s very much within us. And meant to be expressed in the way we respond to situations. It can be generated any time that we feel the need. We can’t really digest food unless there’s hunger. So we can’t really assimilate spiritual wisdom unless we feel the need for it.”
Do you think the journey would be more difficult now? How do we begin?
“I don’t think necessarily the 60’s was a better time than now; it was just a different time. I think the younger generation was very idealistic at that time. And for those ideals, people were willing to put themselves on the line and make sacrifices and go against the trend of society for ideals; and there was a lot of social support to do so also.
But it’s very important that we have ideals and that we follow the calling of our ideals, and today, I think that for people, they may not be the same, specific ideals we had in the 60’s, but they can be a lot better. And really, the ideal is to be an instrument of compassion and. love within our life and whatever we do, that’s the highest human ideal. And if we associate with other people who share those ideals, then there are beautiful things that can happen.
I’ve seen enlightened mothers, fathers, and business people and professional people and farmers and I’ve seen as many enlightened people in those fields than priests and swamis. It’s not a matter that one is in a better position to be enlightened, it’s a question of our sincerity in whatever field we’re in; to put time aside every day to nourish our spirituality.
We chant, we pray, we do rituals- different people have their spiritual ways, and if we really have the right intent, that we’re doing this to love God and to be an instrument of compassion, we’re doing this to cleanse our heart of greed, and envy and arrogance and selfish passions, if that’s really why we’re doing these things, then we know the true effect of being grounded spiritually.
An example would be that each of us is like a TV station. There are so many frequencies; soap opera, mystery movie, news, sermon- according to what we tune into, we’re going to access that frequency. And when we live our lives in the world, there are so many frequencies we have to deal with.
If we put some time aside every day and give importance, priority to tuning in the divinity within us, to our connection with God, (Religion means to reconnect, to bind back to.) if we put in some time and make that a priority in our life to get spiritually grounded, then with the grace and the strength that we access, this becomes a foundation on which we build our life every day, in whatever we do, and our whole life has great meaning.”
What about those who say that religious leaders have the luxury of removing themselves from the noise and stress from the everyday world? It’s easy to be spiritual when you don’t have to deal with people; no arguments, distraction, temptation.
“Since I became a swami or a priest in the Hindu tradition, I have to deal with more people and problems than I ever have before. It’s just a different service. Spiritual life is not necessarily about changing our status in society, changing our occupation or our domestic connections. It’s about changing our heart. We can be very deeply spiritual whether we’re artists, or journalists, or business people or politicians; whatever we do.
It’s just a matter of trying to harmonize our occupation with our ideals, with our spiritual ideals, to perform our work with good character and with good integrity, and ultimately, with devotion to God and compassion for others. We can do that in any field of life. If there’s that type of spiritual awareness and compassion where we’re all working for the whole of the social body; we’re all helping each other, we’re all integrating and we’re all harmonizing; our focusing and centering our devotion to God brings that harmony among all different types of people.”
Would you say that we’ve become more lost? With an obsession with technology, the increase in materialism, are we becoming more selfish- disconnected from the spiritual?
“From my observation, what I see in the world is a lot of polarization taking place, where people are just taking shelter more and more, of trying to forget their problems through entertainment, and intoxication and greed and prestige. But there are other people who are seeing that, and they’re seeing that it’s superficial. And there are a lot of people who are actually becoming more spiritually thinking because they want to find something with substance. They’re looking for love.
Ultimately, everyone is looking for love. It’s a fundamental need of every human being- to love and be loved. And when there’s a satisfying love within our heart, then we’re essentially happy in whatever situation we’re in because there’s inner fulfillment, and we can bear the problems of the world. But not when there’s an emptiness of that, or if our love is superficial, or selfish because selfish love doesn’t satisfy the heart. Then, we’re looking for the pleasure of that love in so many other things; by acquiring money and fame and position, by using drugs and physical pleasures and all of these things and never finding it.
If our physical activities and our emotional activities are harmonized with our spiritual needs, then life becomes very beautiful and I do find that as people are becoming more grossly materialistic, there are also so many people who are looking for alternatives and spiritual paths.”
There’s so much hatred and hypocrisy in the world. It’s no longer so easy to trust those who claim to be religious. Too much is done in the name of religion.
“In my spiritual quest, I studied many different religions. I saw hypocrisy in the name of God. And I wanted to find what really, the essence of religion is. There’s sectarianism, there’s hatred, in the name of a loving God. It’s always been there. For thousands of years, it’s very much a part of human history. There are wars in the name of a loving God. There’s vengeance in the name of a forgiving God. There’s hatred and hypocrisy of so many sorts.
So often times, people, especially, young people, they see the forms of religion but not the substance. As Jesus said, at one time in the Bible, to those who were criticizing him, that ‘You understand the letter of the law but you do not understand the spirit of the law’, the power behind it. You know, what is the purpose of these things? We dress a certain way, we wear our hair a particular way, perhaps; we perform a particular ritual, and we have certain observances. And these are forms, but those forms are really only as valuable as the intention of the spirit that we’re trying to express through those rituals. And because people have seen a lot of hypocrisy, people attack or lose their faith in the different forms and rituals of religion.
For example, if you want to send a letter, you use an envelope, with a stamp on it. It’s kind of an old way, but if I send you a letter and you just get an envelope, without anything in it, it’s not very meaningful to you. The envelope has its purpose because it carries our message to the receiver. But the message is all important. And prayer, ritual; whatever the ritual may be, are sort of like envelopes to express our intent to God and to each other.
But sometimes we’re so concerned with the envelope, we forget about the message; we’re supposed to be sending. And when there’s a lack of integrity in people who perform rituals; and I’ve seen this in every religion, even the one that I follow, hypocrisy and very low spiritual ideals, but a strict adherence to certain rules and rituals- when people see that hypocrisy, they lose their confidence and they can’t take religion seriously, and sometimes they can’t take seriously the whole religion or religion in general.
And in religion, there’s a certain type of fear that if somebody believes differently from me, that it’s a threat. Because I’m right, and there cannot be two ways that are right, so if I’m right, anything different than this must be wrong; and we attack those things and it’s really due to insecurity, ego and fear. It’s not due to true religious doctrine. It’s just an egoistic and insecure way of interpreting our doctrine. That’s very dangerous.
I think the problem is not religion. I think that people need to see real examples of religion. And when people see real examples of compassion and love and care, and morality and integrity, more than anything else, people want the real thing; otherwise their faith will be in empty envelopes. And they become terrorists, they become bigots, they become very judgmental towards anyone that’s different from them. That’s not the kind of faith that the world needs.
Faith in the real substance and the essence of religion, and when we find that essence of transformation and compassion in our own heart, then we can recognize it in other envelopes too. We can not only tolerate it, but we can appreciate the love and love people who love God in all various ways. And when we really connect to our own inner spirit, then we’ll love everyone because we’ll see every living being as a part of God, a child of God. That transformation is the purpose of every spiritual path; it’s the purpose of religion.
And when we’re getting to that point, then we’re doing it right, whatever we call ourselves. What’s really important is that we love God and that we are an instrument of that love. Love is everlasting forgiveness, everlasting compassion; where those qualities are being manifested, we understand there’s love of God. It’s not about putting on a robe or calling oneself a particular religion, or going to church or mosque or synagogue or temple. The purpose of going to these holy places is to access that love and to be inspired, and to get the strength to live by that character.”
What about the fear we have about discovering life forms on other worlds, that, perhaps, this is proof that we are a people engineered by aliens, that there is no God?
"Fear is a very prominent feature of human psychology. When we’re disconnected from the reality that we are eternal-that we are part of God and that there’s so much love and joy within us; when we lose connection to that, then we become very prone to fear. And fear can come in so many ways- sometimes it’s due to insecurity, that we’re afraid of something that’s different than what we believe, or what we are because it gives us a sense that we’re not right, that we’re not the best.
Fear is a byproduct of ego. When we have this strong ego, then we naturally try to defend a very artificial position that we see ourselves in and in doing so, there could be so many apparent challenges or threats whether they’re physical or emotional or psychological.
There is egoism in many forms; my neighborhood, my race, my world, my planet. God is great. We easily say God is great but we want greatness to be able to fit in the palm of the hand; comfortably. Perhaps, God’s greatness is greater than our conception: greater than the capacity of our conception to understand? God’s greatness is greater than our religion, or of all religions. God is really great- far greater than all this ‘stuff’.
God is not just the God of this earth. God is the God of all creation. According to the Vedas, our scriptures, there are many many universes within creation. And there’s so much life in so many places that God has created, why does it have to be just us, and why should we fear?”
There are some who believe that God remains neutral to our being. He leaves us and earthly matters to the devil to toy with us, and we need to prove ourselves in the battle of wills, the trials and tribulations of living, we have to earn his love and our salvation. What about those who have just lost faith?
“In our teaching, we believe that God is within the heart of every living being. We’re never abandoned. For love to be spiritually rich and real, it must be an expression of our own free will. You can’t force a person to love you. And love is an expression of free will. The Lord does not interfere with our expression of free will but the Lord is within our heart, as our mother, our father, as our well wisher, and the Lord loves us more than we can ever love him. He is willing to intervene in our life at any time if we call on him to intervene.
But at the same time, if we want to do our thing, he lovingly waits. Just like in this book I wrote, you know, I did my thing, and it wasn’t that my father and mother were indifferent to me. They didn’t call the police- they let me do what I needed to do.
The Lord gives us free will but at the same time, is the most caring, loving friend and guide just waiting for us to turn his way, and when we turn his way, he’s willing to orchestrate the universe in such a way for what’s best for us.”
In this book, you wrote about your own journey. Will you be writing another book?
“I have been writing another book, yes. I was asked by a publisher if I would write a book about more of the wisdom of the tradition that I follow. I’m working on that. It depends on the grace of God when the book comes out. In our tradition, there are two things that are very important; our own endeavor, our sincere determined endeavor, and the grace of God."
You’ve met many wonderful people throughout your life. Mother Theresa was one and someone who certainly left a legacy. What would you like your legacy to be? How would you like to be remembered?
“One who loves to serve. One who is grateful for any opportunity to serve.”
“My parents taught me gratitude. My parents grew up in the Great Depression, and it was really hard for them. They were really struggling; the whole family, working just to make ends meet. And they really valued whatever anyone gave them or whatever they had. And being brought up in the 50’s, when there was much more prosperity in America, when I look back, sometimes I have to think that we took so many things for granted. It was very important for my parents that I understood gratitude.
That’s one of the most beautiful and precious lessons we can give to someone. I remember my mother and father. They would be grateful just for the gesture of love. For my mother, whether you gave her a pearl necklace or whether I just ran out and picked a flower from her garden- it made no difference to her. I remember, she would just smile the same way, and she would always say, ‘It is the thought that counts. It’s not the thing. It’s the love with which it’s offered. That’s what counts.’
Things have their value to the extent they represent feelings of love and feelings of affection otherwise the thing itself; it can give some temporary feelings to the mind, and body, but it’s really the heart where fulfillment is and fulfillment comes from love. And without gratitude, the heart is like a barren field that cannot receive.
Whatever happens in the world, the ups and the downs, the trials and the challenges- everything changes in the world, oftentimes, beyond our control. But that can’t be an impediment to our spiritual growth if we have a grateful heart. And my beloved mother and father, through their own lives, and through their emphasis, centered this within me and it would become one of my greatest assets in my spiritual search. I’m forever grateful.
Humility and gratitude are perhaps the two most divine virtues of a human being because humility and gratitude facilitate all other good qualities to blossom in the garden of our hearts.
From a spiritual perspective, humility is the basis of the highest consciousness because humility is to recognize that ‘I’m very small but the power of God is very great’. And whatever we do, we recognize that ‘by the grace of God, I was able to do that’. And that’s true humility.
Humility doesn’t mean we feel a sense of self-effacement or inferiority complex; that’s just due to a frustrated ego. But humility is to rise above the ego. And one can gain the greatest confidence when one is humble and one sees that there’s power way beyond my own- that is the most sacred thing in my life.”
If I hadn’t stopped to look at my watch, fearful of tiring him out with my endless questions, we might be talking still. We spoke for two hours going into three and at no time was there an awareness of clock. It was only when I thought he might like a break that I looked at my watch and noticed real time.
As I always do, I ask him if he would like to say something more.
“It’s absolutely beautiful sitting with you. I feel like you’re a lifelong friend.”
We heard music in the next room. A small country band was tuning up for the lunch time concert. Radhanath Swami said that he heard a harmonica and I left him there, a figure wrapped in the orange vestments of the Swami, standing very much in the midst of other listeners, as he stood listening to the music.
When you spend time with those who are at peace with themselves, who live in genuine goodness, and don’t stop striving to do more, learn more, be more sincere, you cannot help but think hard about your own path; to look into your own heart, to think more about everything.
He dances. He once played the harmonica and might do so again. His eyes glow like coals that reflect the inner fire deep in his belly. And you can hear the fire and the joy in his laugh. Often unexpected, coming from a deep well of seemingly endless joy and wonder at being, Radhanath Swami’s laughter, for me, is best evidence of his joyful spirit. He’s truly a Godful presence.
He wakes in me the desire to recite poetry, to wake at dawn and sing out loud, to weep at sunset for the close of another day. In a world in which, according to him, we are surrounded by so many miracles that we no longer recognize them, my eyes open once again to the possibilities for good.
Radhanath Swami’s book, “The Journey Home – Autobiography of An American Swami” is my personal recommendation for reading in the new year.
For more information: http://www.thejourneyhomebook.com/
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