Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can the position be reconciled if in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be separation then?

Prabhupāda: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means not advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (S.B.11:2:42). The test is, how you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the proportionate diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the test.

(Morning walk--------Perth).

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it says that happiness in the mode of goodness is in the beginning is like poison but at the end it is like nectar. Where does the poison end and where does the sweetness begin?

Prabhupāda: Sweetness? That is false sweetness. Just like sexual intercourse. This is sweet, but aftereffect is very poisonous. Either illicit or legal, the aftereffect is very... You have to take care of the children, the child is diseased, go to the doctor and this, that, so many, maintenance... And illicit—then this charge of rape case and so many other things. So both of them, in the beginning it is very happy, but at the end it is very distressing. That is material happiness. Everyone knows it, that it is distasteful. But still, he does that. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (S.B.7:9:45). Therefore this kṛpanāḥ... Kṛpanāḥ means miser or foolish person.

Devotee (1): (break) ...till they give up their lusty desires.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required because unless you give up your lusty desires, you will have to remain in this material world, and to remain in the material means suffering. If you actually do not want suffering, then you have to practice all these things so that you can go to the spiritual world. That is the aim of life. And for going to the spiritual world, you have to be completely, cent percent free from all material desires. And so long you will have material desires, you have to accept one material body. Nature is so kind, or the law of nature is so perfect. As long as you will have a little pinch of material desire, then you will have to accept. That's all. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad... And that material life means you may become a grass or you may become a demigod like Brahmā. That will depend on your desire. But you will have to accept. (end).

(Morning walk--------Perth).

Vṛṣākapi: The karmīs, they say "What is the matter with sense gratification?" They say they like sense gratification; it's very good.

Prabhupāda: Very good, but if you can continue it. But you rascal, you cannot continue it. "Very good, I am now president," but why you are kicked out? Huh? Now, what about the Nixon? Very good, he was president, now he's kicked out, what is his position? He doesn't think that, that "I may be kicked out from my position at any moment. So what is the value of my sense gratification?" He was gratifying his senses. As he liked, he was doing. But now he's kicked out, what he can do now? Why does he not think that? Take the living example. Who wants to be kicked out from the presidency? But now he's kicked out. He's living also. He's not in that position. That Kruschev, he's not in that position. Why does he not think that "Any moment I'll be kicked out." And what is that enforcement that kicks out?

(Room conversation-------Washington D.C.).

Devotee (6): They don't take their pleasure in being there in the brahma-jyotir?

Prabhupāda: There is no pleasure. Blissfulness is not there, brahma-jyotir is simply eternity, that's all. The same example can be given. Just like sunlight. There is only light. But on a planet the effect of the light is there—there are so many trees, so many flowers, fruits. We, we want varieties of pleasure.

(Room conversation------Indore).