Girirāja: Yes. Now in the case of Jaya and Vijaya, who fell down and took the role of demons, after three births as demons, they were supposed to go back to the spiritual world. So after the three births in this universe, were the same pastimes going on in other universes.?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? Whenever Kṛṣṇa desires that He is to fight with somebody, another must prepare himself for fighting, becomes His enemy. Because in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no chance of fighting, therefore He sends His devotees to become His enemy and there He fights.

Girirāja: So other living entities would play the part of Rāvaṇa in other universes?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Or any other way.

Mahāṁsa: We cannot actually conceive of all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa being the reservoir of all pleasure, so the pleasure of fighting is there. So He can exhibit anywhere. (break) That is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we limit Kṛṣṇa like one of us, or little bigger than me, then I become doctor frog. (aside:) Don't come near. Why don't you tell them? (break)

(Morning walk--------Bombay).

English boy (2): Is it possible for one to make it in this life? This one...? Is it possible that one falls down?

Prabhupāda: It is possible in one second, provided you are serious. It is not difficult. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (B.G.7:19) "After many, many births, one, when one is intelligent, wise, fully grown, wise, he surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So if I am intelligent, then I will see that "If that is the goal of life, that after many, many births one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why not myself surrender immediately?" This is intelligence. If this is a fact, that one has to come to this point after cultivating knowledge for many, many births, then why not accept it immediately? Why shall I wait for many, many births if this is a fact?

So that requires little intelligence. It does not require many, many births. It requires little intelligence. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously; your problems are solved. Now, if you don't believe in it, then come to argument, come to philosophy, come to reason. Go on arguing. There are volumes of books. You can be convinced. You can learn it. Every answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You can try to understand it with your reason, with your arguments. It is open. (break) ...like Arjuna. Arjuna was taught Bhagavad-gītā, how much time? At most, within half an hour. Because he was very intelligent. This Bhagavad-gītā, the people of the world are reading. Very, very learned scholar, wise men, they are reading. They are trying to understand, giving different interpretation. And there are thousands of edition, commentaries. But Arjuna was intelligent; he understood it within half an hour.

(Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita--------Hamburg).

To become jitendriya is very difficult task. But it is easy if he immediately becomes a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Everything make zero, all desire, except Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is wanted. But that does not become very easily done. One has to try very rigidly; then he'll be paramahaṁsa. Therefore amongst the devotees, there are three grades: kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and uttama-adhikārī. So if the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī thinks that "I have become uttama-adhikārī," then he's a rascal. He's a rascal. If he wants to imitate the uttama-adhikārī, then he's a rascal.

Hṛdayānanda: Is that cheating propensity?

Prabhupāda: Not cheating. Foolishness. It may not be cheating, but he does not know. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yat śraddhayehate... What is that? Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu...

Hṛdayānanda: Bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. The beginning is arcā, arcana. And because he was given the chance of arcana, if he thinks that "I become paramahaṁsa," then he's a foolish. It will take time. The process is there. Therefore preaching is madhyama-adhikārī. One should take to preaching work gradually. When the preaching... Preachers, they have got discrimination, "Here is abhakta; here is bhakta." But in the paramahaṁsa stage, uttama-adhikārī, he sees "Everyone is devotee. I am not devotee." That is uttama-adhikārī. Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī said, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC.1:5:205). Sanātana Gosvāmī said that "I am born in low-grade family. My work is low grade." (break)

(Morning walk-------Mayapura).