Prabhupada: Ah. In East Germany also, they have placed order. So this is joining. Just like for us, if you bring any other literature, we throw it away immediately. We take it as useless. Actually it is. We have nothing to learn from them, anything. All bogus. Either he's scientist or astronomer, or..., we know they are talking all bogus things. There may be some truth. Even that truth is there when a child speaks, there is some truth. When a child speaks to his parents, there is some truth, otherwise where is the question of talking? So little portion truth is there, everywhere. But when they talk of big, big things -- they are going to Mars and scratching sand there -- that we don't believe. That we don't believe. When they talk of this tape recorder, some electronic machine, joining together and it is working, that much care you can take. But when you speak of so many things, that millions of years there were germs and germination, now they are trying to come out, and it is all vacant -- these are all bogus, we don't accept. Talking too much. In Bengal it is called yatap(?) When the same child speaks something too much, "Ah, stop." To the extent of his capacity, that's all right. But if you talk more than that, then you are rascal. So they are doing that now. Because they have got some electronic success, or they have manufactured some jet plane, or these, they are now thinking "Now we have owned over the whole world situation." That is nonsense. They are thinking like that: "Now we have control over the world world." That is yatam,(?) speaking more than their capacity. And so far we are concerned, we don't talk anything, except what is mentioned in the books. That's all. We remain always foolish. And as foolish men, we do not talk. We simply talk what is mentioned by Vyasadeva, by Sukadeva Gosvami. That's all. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu... These things have been discussed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam by Prahlada Maharaja, that in the material world, the only pleasure is sex. There is no pleasure. Always working hard like asses, that's all, everyone. Not only in one. Life after life, life after life. This is material. And... (children outside yelling) So why they are here?Bhagavan: Children?Prabhupada: Yes.Bhagavan: I'll tell them... (to devotee outside) Those children out there, their terrible screaming's disturbing Prabhupada.Harikesa: They're all the way down the road.Bhagavan: Get them all off the road.Prabhupada: This is the trap of maya, to keep them captivated by sex attraction. All these living entities who are in this material world, beginning from the higher planetary system down to the ants and germs and flies. This is the primary enjoyment, sex. The central attraction is sex. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. The human being, the same sex desire, they decorate it in a different way. But the central point is the same. "So all right, why? It is enjoyment, why you are forbidding?" Saintly persons say, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham. It is a pleasure of itching sensation. Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duhkha-bhajah [SB 7.9.45]. Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it, that "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. But why people do it again and again? Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Those who are krpana-krpana means not brahmana -- those who are not trained up as a brahmana, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized and the aftereffect is very, very bad. So either illicit or not illicit... They know it. The modern civilization, they have adopted the means of killing. First of all, they try to stop pregnancy by contraceptive method, and still if it is not stopped, then kill. And if he's still born, then again they put up in a box and go away. You know this?Harikesa: Yes, the baby, they put it in a closet and lock the door and walk out.Hari-sauri: Oh, in Japan.Prabhupada: Yes, that is happening in Japan and other places. They put, and when the obnoxious smell comes, they open it and they find. Mother has become so kind. They put in a box and lock it up.Hari-sauri: Airport lockers.Prabhupada: These are happening. But when you talk of that "You learn how to become brahmacari," that they will refuse. This is the position. The aftereffect is very, very bad, either you get legally or illegally. Legally, we have to raise the children very nicely. Otherwise, they will, unwanted children, create so much trouble. You have to take care for their proper education, of their clothes.(?) We say, "Never mind, you have got children, give them proper education, make them devotees, make their life successful." We cannot say that "You kill them." That we cannot say. That is not possible. Neither we can pack them in the, what is that box?Hari-sauri: Lockers.Prabhupada: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome. But we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotees. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacari. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaisnavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacari gurukula. Brahmacari guru-kule vasan danto guror hitam [SB 7.12.1]. From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Krsna or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged. Then they'll be trained up. Simple thing. We don't want to train them as big grammarians. No. That is not wanted. That anyone, if he has got some inclination, he can do it personally. There is no harm. General training is that he must be a devotee, a pure devotee of Krsna. That should be introduced. Otherwise, the gurukula will be... Otherwise Jyotirmayi was suggesting the biology. What they'll do with biology? Don't introduce unnecessary nonsense things. Simple life. Simply to understand Krsna. Simply let them be convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is our duty to serve Him, that's all. Huh? (indistinct) What is that? mayar bose, jaccho bhese' Khaccho habudubu bhai jiv krsna-das ei biswas korle to ar duhkho nai. So organize. If you have got sufficient place, sufficient scope, let them be trained up very nicely. If some four, five centers like this there are in Europe, the whole face will be changed. Important places like Germany, France, England. Now we are getting place. I like that place, German, on account of this. It has got scope.Harikesa: There's no land.Prabhupada: That you can acquire, that you can acquire. But building is very nice.Hari-sauri: We don't own that place, though, do we?Prabhupada: Never mind, own or not own. You possess and that's all. You don't own anything. Everything belongs to Krsna. Do you think it is, you own this?Hari-sauri: No, I was thinking in terms of ISKCON.Prabhupada: This is all Krsna's property. So long He likes, we shall remain. That's all. I know that. (laughs) Just like we entered Bhaktivedanta Manor without any arrangement. I know that so long Krsna will like, we shall... If Krsna says "Go away," we shall go away, what is that? Why so much legal implication? Everywhere, although we have got big, big buildings, I don't think we own it. It is Krsna's. So long He likes, we shall remain there, if He doesn't like, we shall go away. What is this? Why you should stress on the proprietorship?Hari-sauri: No, I was just thinking in terms of the karmis.Prabhupada: They are not proprietor.Harikesa: Would you like that tomatoes and cucumber and...?Prabhupada: Yes, bring. Manasa deho geho jo kichu mor arpilun tuwa pade nanda-kisora. Bhaktivinoda Thakura. "Whatever I have got, it is all Yours." Anukulyasya sankalpa. Whatever is favorable, take it, that's all. Anukulyena krsna-anusilanam bhaktir uttama. This is? What is that, apple?Devotee (1): Apple, cucumber. The apples are not fresh, Srila Prabhupada, from the tree, because those apples you saw yesterday were just for cooking. They're very sour...Bhagavan: They have eating apples. We have eating apples.Devotee (1): They're sour, too sour. Just for cooking.Bhagavan: That's fresh cucumber? And our tomato?Devotee (1): They're a little warm because they've been in the sun all day.Bhagavan: The peas were good last night?Prabhupada: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Krsna. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking -- without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can attempt, just like a monkey, that's all right. But our verdict is already there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. I am not a scientist, but how I dared to say? Because I know, I have got full knowledge. That is the difference. Without becoming scientist, we can give our verdict. Veda-pramanam. (Prabhupada is eating) Umm, better give this fresh fruit. Don't bring all rotten. In the market you cannot get fresh. All three hundred years old. Anything fresh, that is full of vitamin. Grow fresh, take fresh. In India there is no system to purchase three-hundred-years-old bread and eat. It must be freshly made. Wife is preparing in the simple oven, husband is eating, children are eating. You know Yasodamayi calling Krsna? "Come back! Your father is waiting!" You remember this? That is Indian system. The father and the children, they sit down, mother will bring fresh dal, rice and capati, and distribute, and they eat. We used to do that. Along with father we shall sit down for eating, separately. There was no need of table-on the ground. And mother will distribute, cook. No servant; mother personally, wife personally.Bhagavan: In the Krsna book you describe that in Krsna's palace there were so many beautiful maidservants, but Rukmini chose to fan Krsna personally.Prabhupada: Yes. Still, in Indian family system, when the husband comes from office, the wife takes care immediately. Even in these days. That is, at least, a manifestation of faithfulness. (aside) No, don't bother. This has fallen.Hari-sauri: Yes.Prabhupada: So how to?Hari-sauri: Requires some steps or something.Bhagavan: You go on walk tonight?Prabhupada: Why not?Bhagavan: They can fix all your...Hari-sauri: Someone can come in whilst we're gone.Prabhupada: The cucumber cutting, there is a process. I'll show you. Sometimes cucumber is bitter. By that process it can be avoided.Harikesa: You mean chop the top and you go...Prabhupada: Ah, yes. That's all right.Devotee (1): This is bitter?Prabhupada: We tasted one piece. Yes, little bitter.Bhagavan: When they work in the fields, we have speakers all over the land, and they hear you chanting all day long.Prabhupada: Very good. This should be arranged with lemon juice. If you have got these fruits, there is no need of purchasing.Bhagavan: The tomatoes are supposed to be as good as oranges. The tomatoes are supposed to be as healthy as oranges.Prabhupada: Yes. In our childhood, these tomatoes were called foreign eggplant, bilati beguna. And because it was foreign, nobody will touch it. In our childhood we'd never eat the tomato. It was rejected by whole Indian Hindu culture.Harikesa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?Prabhupada: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Maharaja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly -- in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.Bhagavan: One time you said that they criticized you when you were going to America because you did not know about the knife and the fork?Prabhupada: Yes. Bon Maharaja. And the book English Etiquette. Very big book. How to sit, how to laugh, how to smile, how to pass water, how to this... (laughter) And they would learn it and waste time. (pause) So, if you grow more, and offer fruits to the Deity in the evening, and this will be very nice. You can distribute that.Bhagavan: Would you like to go for a walk soon? I'll get everything ready. The palanquin was nice?Prabhupada: Oh, yes, everything is nice. In the morning also you give me fresh fruit and that milk and medicine, that's all. And when I'm (indistinct), someday we can take puri and... (end)Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm
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