Pradyumna: (reading:) "Another part of sadhana-bhakti is called raganuga. Raganuga refers to the point at which, by following the regulative principles, one becomes a little more attached to Krsna and executes devotional service out of natural love. For example, a person engaged in devotional service may be ordered to rise early in the morning and offer aratrika, which is a form of Deity worship. In the beginning, by the order of the spiritual master, one rises early in the morning and offers aratrika, but then he develops real attachment. When he gets this attachment, he automatically tries to decorate the Deity and prepare different kinds of dresses and thinks of different plans to execute his devotional service nicely. Although it is within the category of practice, this off..."
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Pradyumna: "Although it is within the category of practice, this offering of loving service is spontaneous. So the practice of devotion, the practice of devotional service, sadhana-bhakti, can be divided into two parts -- namely, regulative and spontaneous."
Prabhupada: Hmm. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Rupa Gosvami defines the first part of devotional service, or vaidhi-bhakti, as follows: 'When there is no attachment or no spontaneous loving service to the Lord, and one is engaged in the service of the Lord simply out of obedience to the order of the spiritual master or in pursuance of the scriptures, such obligatory service is called vaidhi-bhakti.' These principles of vaidhi-bhakti..."
Prabhupada: Neither attachment nor detachment. That is the primary stage. One has no very much attachment in the material affairs, but at the same time, he has no strong detach..., attachment for devotional service. This marginal state is called, what is that? Vaidhi-bhakti. Means he is offering devotional service under the instruction of the spiritual master as a professional. He has not developed the spontaneous love of God, Krsna, but he is obliged to serve under the instruction of the spiritual master. And that is the first stage of vaidhi-bhakti. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The principles of vaidhi-bhakti are also described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Second Canto, First Chapter, verse 35, where Sukadeva Gosvami instructs the dying Maharaja Pariksit as to his course of action. Maharaja Pariksit met Sukadeva Gosvami just a week before his death, and the King was perplexed as to what should be done before he was to pass on. Many other sages also arrived there, but no one could give him the proper direction. Sukadeva Gosvami, however, gave this direction to him as follows: 'My dear King, if you want to be fearless in meeting your death next week (for actually everyone is afraid at the point of death), then you must immediately begin the process of hearing and chanting and remembering God.' If one can chant and hear Hare Krsna and always remember Lord Krsna, then he is sure to become fearless of death, which may come at any moment."
Prabhupada: Ante narayana-smrtih [SB 2.1.6]. That is the success of life. Somehow or other, if one can remember Narayana, Krsna, that is success of life. The... In Bengal there is a proverb: bhajana kara, pujana kara, mate janle haya. Your devotional service will be tested at the time of death. Because yam yam vapi smaram loke tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time of death, if we can remember Krsna, Narayana-smrtih, that is all success. The practice of devotional service means so that we may be so accustomed to chanting Hare Krsna mantra that at the time of death we may remember it. Otherwise... Not like parrot. The parrot also imitates chanting. But when the cat catches, he does not say, "Hare Krsna." He says (imitates parrot sound), "kanh, kanh." So not that kind of... We should be accustomed to chant Hare Krsna that whenever the death point is there, he would chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. Then that is success. So practice means to remember. Sada tad-bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6]. If we practice always thinking of Krsna, naturally, at the time of danger, we shall chant Hare Krsna. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In the statements of Sukadeva Gosvami it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna. Therefore Sukadeva recommends that one should always hear about Krsna. He does not recommend that one hear and chant about the demigods. The Mayavadis, or impersonalists, say that you can chant any name, either that of Krsna or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same."
Prabhupada: Sukadeva Gosvami recommended,
tasmad bharata sarvatma
bhagavan harir isvarah
srotavyah kirtitavyas ca
smartavyas ca nityasah
[SB 2.1.5]
He recommended this, that tasmad bharata sarvatma bhagavan harir isvarah. Sarvatma. The Krsna is situated in everyone's heart; therefore He's known as sarvatma. So sarvatma is Bhagavan, the Personality, Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, who takes away all our miserable conditions. Hari. And Isvara, controller. Tasmad bharata sarvatma bhagavan harir isvarah. So He's to be always remembered. Satato smartavyo visnuh. Always we have to remember Visnu. Nityada, always. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said,
trnad api sunicena
taror api sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harih
[Cc. Adi 17.31]
Kirtaniyah, to chant the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are so many impediments. You are experiencing that our only business is to chant Hare Krsna mantra, but there are so many enemies also. There are many friends -- we have got more friends than enemies; still, there are so many enemies also, criticizing. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicted that this criticism would be there. Even when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was preaching this Hare Krsna mantra... He was chanting Hare Krsna mantra very loudly. Some brahmanas from Navadvipa, they lodged complaint to the magistrate, Kazi, that "This Nimai Pandita has discovered a new type of religion, chanting loudly Hare Krsna. This is the period of, sleeping period of Narayana, and He's chanting so loudly. So Narayana will be disturbed and there will be so much catastrophe. So kindly stop this chanting Hare Krsna loudly." And Kazi, he took steps. He first of all warned the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop chanting. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu disregarded the order, then the, some constables came and broke the mrdangas. Then Caitanya Mahaprabhu started the civil disobedience movement. About one lakh of people, chanting Hare Krsna mantra, reached the house of Kazi, and there was some compromise.
So there is always impediments in this process. If you chant Hare Krsna mantra, the atheist class of men, they cannot tolerate. In... Nowadays also, we are being harassed. In Australia, the Melbourne city authorities, they brought a civil suit against us not to chant on the street. And our men were being taken to the police custody. So this harassment was going on, and our men asked my permission, "What to do? The lawyers want two thousand dollars for defending." So I advised them that "Why you should defend? Better go to jail and chant Hare Krsna there." That's all. So they followed this instruction. Later on, the Archbishop of Melbourne city, he advised the authorities, "Don't harass these men. They are actually devotees of God." So now there is no disturbance. So similar disturbance is to happen to everywhere. Therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave us instruction that you should be tolerant. Trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. Because there will be so much impediments. Amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. We must chant, we must always do our business, despite all objection, obstacles. That is our business. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The Mayavadis, or impersonalists, say that you can chant any name, either that of Krsna or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same. But actually this is not a fact. According to the authorized version of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one has to hear and chant about Lord Visnu, Krsna..."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: "...only."
Prabhupada: Sravanam kirtanam visnoh [SB 7.5.23]. There are other demigods. It is not recommended sravanam kirtanam of the name of other demigods. And to compare or to equalize the Supreme Personality of Godhead with other demigods, that is pasandi-matam, means atheistic opinion.
yas tu narayanam devam
brahma-rudradi-daivataih
samatvenaiva vikseta
sa pasandi bhaved dhruvam
[Cc. Madhya 18.116]
This is a quotation from Caitanya-caritamrta, from Sasvata Purana. So we should not compare the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana equal to any other demigod. That is offense. That is also nama-aparadha. But the Mayavadis, they do that. Therefore, they do not derive any benefit. The Mayavadis also chant Hare Krsna mantra, but -- just to attract people -- but actually they think that the name of any other demigod and the name of Narayana, Krsna, all the same. That is nama-aparadha. Go on.
Pradyumna: "So Sukadeva Gosvami has recommended to Pariksit Maharaja that in order to be fearless of death, one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is sarvatma. Sarvatma means the Supersoul of everyone. Krsna is also mentioned as Isvara, the supreme controller who is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore, if some way or other we become attached to Krsna, he will make us free from all danger. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. Vanquished means that after getting this human form of life, a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death and thus misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature."
Prabhupada: Yes. That's a great problem. People do not know. People in general, they do not know what is after death. There are so many things after death, but there is no education. Therefore they are in darkness. So this human form of life is misused in darkness. If anyone does not know the value of life, then it is misused. In the sastra it is called atma-ha, committing suicide. The same quotation from Narottama dasa Thakura:
hari hari biphale janama gonainu
manusya-janama paiya, radha-krsna na bhajiya
janiya suniya visa khainu
Committing suicide. If we do not come to Krsna consciousness, even getting this valuable human form of life, then certainly we are committing suicide. We are drinking poison knowingly. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Suppose one does not develop Krsna consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant or a beast or a bird or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rupa Gosvami for reviving our original Krsna consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Krsna very seriously, and thus also become fearless of death. After death, we do not know our destination, because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore, if we take shelter of Krsna seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Krsna, as affirmed in the Bhagavad-gita."
Prabhupada: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. These statements are there. If we actually take to Krsna consciousness, then maya, the laws of nature, will not act. And... Otherwise, we shall be put into the cycle of birth and death. So the best utilization of this human life is to elevate oneself to Krsna consciousness and, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah: if we try to understand Krsna, in truth, then tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9], then we'll not have to accept any more this material body, which is full of miserable conditions. Then we go back to home, back to Godhead. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In the Padma Purana also the same process is advised. There it is said that one should always remember Lord Visnu. This is called dhyana, or meditation -- always remembering Krsna. It is said that one has to meditate with his mind fixed upon Visnu. Padma Purana recommends that one always fix his mind on the form of Visnu by meditation and not forget Him at any moment. And this stage of consciousness is called samadhi, or trance."
Prabhupada: Yogic mystic meditation means to concentrate the mind upon Krsna or Visnu. Dhyanavasthita tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [SB 12.13.1]. Yogi, those who are real yogis, they always observe the Visnu form within the heart. That is the process of meditation and samadhi. Go on.
Pradyumna: "We should always try to mold the activities of our lives in such a way that we will constantly remember Visnu or Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness. Whether one concentrates his mind on the four-handed form of Visnu or on the form of two-handed Krsna, it is the same. The Padma Purana recommends somehow or other always thinking of Visnu, without forgetting Him, under any circumstances. Actually, this is the most basic of all regulative principles. For, when there is an order from a superior about doing something, there is simultaneously a prohibition. When the order is that one should always remember Krsna, the prohibition is that one should never forget Him. Within this simple order and prohibition all regulative principles are found complete."
Prabhupada: Smartavyah satato visnuh vismartavyam na jatucit. This is, this is the principle of Krsna conscious life. We should always remember Krsna or Visnu, and we shall never forget Him. We shall mold our life in such a way... This Krsna consciousness movement, International Society, on this process, they are acting. They're publishing, they're going to sankirtana party on the street -- even they are arrested, they cannot forget Krsna. Even they are put into the jail, there also, chanting Hare Krsna or remembering Krsna, that "For pushing on Krsna consciousness movement, we have come to jail." And they are chanting; they're free to chant. So ahaituky apratihata: Krsna consciousness cannot be checked in any condition of life, provided we are serious. It is so nice. Any condition, any circumstances, without any check, we can remember Krsna. Satato smartavyah, smartavyo visnuh. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. These are the instructions. Go on.
Pradyumna: "This regulative principle is applicable to all varnas and asramas..."
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not that Visnu has to be remembered only by the brahmanas. No. Anyone -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, or lower than the sudras, any papa-yoni. Krsna recommends, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg. 9.32]. Kim punar brahmanah punya bhakta rajarsayas tatha [Bg. 9.33]. Even papa-yoni, it doesn't matter. Any material condition cannot check Krsna consciousness. Anyone can take bath in the Yamuna. It is open for everyone. There is no prohibition that those who are low-born, they cannot take bath in the Yamuna or Ganges. Similarly, for chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra there is no barrier. Everyone can chant. Everyone can take advantage and thus become purified of the material contamination. Go on.
Pradyumna: "There are four varnas, namely, the brahmanas, the priest and intellectuals; the ksatriyas, warrior and statesmen; the vaisyas, businessmen and farmers; and the sudras, laborers and servants. There are also four standard asramas, namely, brahmacarya, or student life; grhastha, householder; vanaprastha, retired; and sannyasa, renounced. The regulative principles are not only for the brahmacaris, or celibate students, to follow, but are applicable for all. It doesn't matter whether one is a beginner, a brahmacari, or if one is very advanced, a sannyasi. The principle of remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly and not forgetting Him at any moment is meant to be followed by everyone without fail. If this injunction if followed, then all other rules and regulations will automatically fall into line. All other rules and regulations should be treated as assistants or servants to this one basic principle."
Prabhupada: This has been practically proved in the Western countries. These boys and girls, European and Americans, they were not informed about the regulative principles in the beginning. We enforce the regulative principle when a student is serious to become initiated. Otherwise, ordinarily, in all our centers, everyone is welcome and join the chanting of Hare Krsna mantra. Gradually, by mixing with the devotees, by being purified on the transcendental vibration of Hare Krsna mantra, they voluntarily offer to become serious student, initiated. In this way, we have expanded. Practically the basic principle is chanting of Hare Krsna mantra and giving them some chance to hear about Krsna from the Bhagavad-gita as it is. This is our principle. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The injunctions of rules and regulations and the resultant reactions are mentioned in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Fifth Chapter, first and second verses. Camasa Muni, one of the nine sages who came to instruct King Nimi, addressed the King and said, 'The four social orders, namely, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, the vaisyas and the sudras, have come out of the different parts of the universal form of the Supreme Lord as follows: the brahmanas have come out from the head; the ksatriyas have come out from the arms; the vaisyas have come out from the waist; and the sudras have come out from the legs. Similarly, the sannyasis have come out from the head; the vanaprasthas from the arms; the grhasthas from the waist; and the brahmacaris from the legs.' These different orders of society and grades of spiritual advancement are conceived in terms of qualification. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita that the four social orders and the four spiritual orders are created by the Lord Himself, in terms of different individual qualities. As the different parts of the body have different types of activities, so the social and spiritual orders also have different types of activities in terms of qualification and position. The target of these activities, however, is always the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, 'He is the supreme enjoyer.' So whether one is a brahmana or a sudra, he has to satisfy the Supreme Lord by his activities."
Prabhupada: Yes. The brahmana is considered to be the mouth of the total body, and the sudras are considered to be the legs. So by comparative position, the head is more important than the leg, but they are equally important in terms of the whole body. Because the head cannot walk. For walking, you require the cooperation of the legs. So, as to maintain this body we require the cooperation of the head, arms, waist and legs, similarly, for serving Krsna, the Supreme, the whole, it doesn't matter whether one is a brahmana or ksatriya or vaisya or sudra; everyone can be engaged. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. One has to worship the Supreme by his own work. The leg has to work in his own way, the head has to work in its own way. But the aim should be to survive, to maintain this body. That is the process. If the aim is one -- Krsna -- then it doesn't matter whether one is brahmana or one is sudra. Equally they are serving and they are sharing the equal profit out of it. Go on.
Pradyumna: "This is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam by a verse which reads, 'Everyone must be engaged in his particular duty, but the perfection of such work should be tested by how far the Lord is satisfied with such activities.' "
Prabhupada: Yes. Svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. Varna and asrama, four varnas and four asrama, that division is always there. But it does not matter, division. It... Of course, comparatively, the head is important than the leg. But if everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord, then everyone becomes perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's sudra or brahmana. It doesn't matter. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. Or svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. That is the process of Krsna consciousness. Go on.
Pradyumna: "The injunction herein is that one is to act according to his position, and by such activities one must either satisfy the Supreme Personality or else fall down from his position."
Prabhupada: Yes. The position may be... That is also recommended by Caitanya Mahaprabhu: sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. Sthane sthitah. Sthane sthitah means position. You keep your position as brahmana, you keep your position as ksatriya, or you keep your position as sudra or vaisya or brahmacari. It doesn't matter. Sthane sthitah. Simply hear about the glories. Just like we are sitting here. There are brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisya, or sudra. It doesn't matter. Everyone has got the privilege to hear about the glories of the Lord. And if we take up this business, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih, prayaso 'jito 'pi jito asi tais tri-lokyam. Krsna is known as Ajita, but... Ajita means who cannot be conquered. So He can be conquered by this process. When Ramananda Raya quoted this verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam, jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva, so Caitanya Mahaprabhu confirmed it. Ya iha haya: "It is very nice." So in this age, by the recommendation of sastra, and confirmed by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we should give chance to the people for hearing about the glories of the Lord. That is the program of Krsna consciousness. We go everywhere and we give people the chance of hearing about the glories of the Lord, and gradually they become Krsna conscious. This is, practically, we are feeling it. The recommendation given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu: iha haya, this process. Satam prasangat mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah.
So this process, giving chance. Of course, those who are preacher, they must be very sincere and serious. Apani acari prabhu jiveri siksaya. One must be perfectly in the Vaisnava behavior, sadacara. Because to hear from professional reciters, there will be no effect. He must be Vaisnava. It is the indication by Sanatana Gosvami, avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam, sravanam na kartavyam. One who is professional, who is not Vaisnava, from him, one should not hear about the holy names of God, Krsna. That is prohibited. Because it will not be effective. Rather, it will be dangerous. So preaching work, this Krsna conscious preaching work, we must be very cautious that those who are preachers, they must be pure Vaisnava. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Not for money's sake, not for reputation sake, labha-puja-pratistha. Only for serving Krsna. Anukulyena krsnanu-silanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. This is pure Vaisnavism. One has to satisfy Krsna. Not for any other purpose. So this preaching work should be taken up by pure Vaisnava, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. And if the sastric injunctions and the direction given by the authorities, if they are presented as they are, surely there will be effect. It has been proved. And it is being proved. So this process we should adopt, and our success of Krsna consciousness movement is assured.
Thank you very much. (end)
The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, November 14, 1972
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