Prabhupada: ...great responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gita throughout the whole world. It is meant for the human being and -- do not mind it -- it appears that rarely a human being is found there to take up the responsibility in India. They're talking all nonsense. The real message of Indian culture is Krsna consciousness. Ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah [Bg. 18.69]. Krsna says at the end of His instruction that "Anyone who is taking the responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gita to the devotees..." Because unless one is devotee, one cannot understand what is Bhagavad-gita. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. To know Krsna superficially, that is a different thing. You can imagine anything nonsense. But if you want to know Krsna as He is, that requires intelligence.manusyanam sahasresukascid yatati siddhayeyatatam api siddhanamkascin mam vetti tattvatah[Bg. 7.3]So we have to understand Krsna tattvatah, as He is. This tattvatah word has been used in several places in Bhagavad-gita. Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. Here is one tattvatah. Krsna's appearance and disappearance is not ordinary thing. Yo janati tattvatah: "Anyone who understands in truth..." So what is the result? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately becomes liberated. Immediately he becomes eligible not to accept any more this material body. Tyaktva deham. Everyone has to give up this body, material body. You cannot remain permanently Indian or this party or that party. You have to change your body. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. So why should you waste your time in this way, that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am horse," "I am cat," "I am dog"? There is no difference. If a dog is thinking that "I am dog," and if I am thinking "I am Indian," where is the difference? The mentality is the same: I'm identifying with the body. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Anyone who is thinking of this body as himself,yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatukesva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhihyat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicijjanesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah[SB 10.84.13]Go-khara. Go means cow, and khara means ass. Anyone who's identifying with this body as self, he's go-khara, animal. So this animal civilization is not meant for India's culture. India's culture is different. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. This is India's culture. Why should we identify ourself as animal -- "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this"? It is wrong type of civilization, go-khara civilization.So our little attempt is... We are not manufacturing anything. We are not manufacturer of religious system, neither it is possible to manufacture. Just like you cannot manufacture law. Law is given by the state. Similarly, dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the law given by God. That is dharma. You cannot manufacture. Who cares for your manufactured system? Just like nobody cares for if you make some law, that "I have made some law," and go to the court, "Sir, I have made this law. Please accept." "He's lunatic. Drive him away." That is not possible. This is dharma, as Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. Don't manufacture dharma. [break] Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. What is that glani? Discrepancy. So glani is disobedience to the order of God. That is glani. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. So the whole world is denying, sunyavadi, nirvisesa-vadi, nirakara-vadi: "No God. God is dead." So what kind of religious system they'll manufacture? They are simply misled. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB 7.5.31]. Very tightly regulated by the laws of nature, and still, we are independently manufacturing religion. This is not possible. Give us this... Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Actually this is dharma. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or any other sect. The test is how much you are advanced in understanding God. That is the... If you do not understand God, if you have no obedience to God, that is not dharma.So the Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. It is neither manufactured nor unauthorized. It is authorized, the oldest. Yogah proktah puratanah. Krsna said to Arjuna that "I am repeating the same yoga, puratanam. Krsna does not say that "I am manufacturing another system of yoga." No. "I am speaking to you the same yoga system."imam vivasvate yogamproktavan aham avyayamvivasvan manave prahamanur iksvakave 'bravit[Bg. 4.1]So yogo nastah parantapa. As soon as we deviate from the original system, it is nasta, spoiled. So what is the use of giving things which is already spoiled? But it cannot be spoiled if you follow the parampara system. This is the secret of success. So our only request is that India should not be misled by imitating the Western type of civilization, unnecessarily fighting on political and social... These political, social, there is problem, but that is temporary. Temporary... We must have our interest to the real life. Somebody yesterday was speaking of health. So what is health? If you are going to die, what is the value of your so-called health program? First of all you stop death; then the question of health. Krsna said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. First of all come to this position. Then even after the destruction of the body, you are not destroyed. That is health. That is health. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is health, not that patchwork: you have got some disease, take some pill and again become diseased. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. That is not health. Here is health.But we have no brain to understand. That Krsna said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit -- at any time. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Where is that medicine? Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. I am dying, my father is dying; my son is dying. But even if we accept, "Yes, we are accepting another body," but what do you know what kind of body you are going to accept? What is the position? There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. If you become an insignificant worm, then it will take millions of years by the evolution process to come again to this human form of body and come to..., there may be chance to take to Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is not very easy. If I miss this opportunity, I may miss millions of years. So this knowledge should be given. It is not expected that everyone will accept or understand. But this knowledge must be current. A class of men, the brahmana class, the Vaisnava class... Manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3] -- that is a fact. But still there must be somebody out of millions to understand this philosophy. And there is good opportunity now. We have published so many books on this subject matter, and we have got very nice place in Bombay, Juhu. Please come, read our books, try to understand the philosophy and make your life successful.Thank you very much. Any question?Giriraja: Are there any questions? Please come forward with your questions. You can ask them in the microphone at the front of the stage.Indian man (1): When chanting, you chant the name of Rama as well as Krsna. I do not see any photograph of Rama here. What is the thinking?Prabhupada: You do not see, but can you hear?Indian man (1): I do not see!Prabhupada: But you do not hear!Indian man (1): Photograph, that we are seeing.Prabhupada: Hearing is also experiencing. Why do you want to see? You do not see your father who is dead.Indian man (1): No, why? Why? Krsna has so many...Prabhupada: No. Seeing and hearing is the same thing. Suppose you have grandfather. Are you seeing him? How do you accept you had a grandfather?Indian man (1): I saw him all right.Prabhupada: That is hearing.Indian man (1): No, I saw him also.Prabhupada: You saw... You did not see your great-grandfather. But how do you know? Hearing is also another process.Indian man (1): My question is whether there is distinction between Rama and Krsna.Prabhupada: The distinction is that hearing is also a process of acquiring knowledge. Why don't you accept it? Simply seeing is not acquiring knowledge. There are so many senses, and hearing is the first-class sense to understand which you cannot see. (applause)Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada!Giriraja: Next? Please come forward with your questions. Asking questions is a sign of intelligence. Athato brahma jijnasa.Tamala Krsna: I think you scared them away.Indian man (2): How could I know the unknown within the known?Prabhupada: This is already explained. How could you know your great-grandfather? From the parampara system. Your father says, "Yes, I had my grandfather." So from the authority of your father you can understand. This is easy process. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. You have to hear. Therefore Veda is called sruti. Sruti means you have to hear from the right source. Then you know. That is knowledge. You don't hear from a cheater. You hear from the right source. Then the knowledge is perfect.Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.Indian man (3): If a man is highly religious, it is very difficult for him to move in the material world. What is the subject? How should he move, the people who are materialistically-minded?Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore you have to understand your spiritual identification. Because you are fools and rascals, you are thinking, "I am this body," and Krsna gives instruction in the beginning that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe: you are within this body, not this body you are. So Krsna is authority. You have to take it. Krsna is not only simply speaking authoritatively but He is giving practical example. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Because the soul is within the body it is changing. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. You have to become a dhira, not adhira. There are two classes of men: dhira and adhira. So in order to become a dhira, you have to go... Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You have to be trained up. Then you'll understand, not so quickly, without being dhira. Dhiras tatra na muhyati.Indian man (4): What is the difference between mind and soul?Prabhupada: Mind is material; soul is spiritual. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca, apareyam bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. They are also elements, but bhinna means material, separated from Krsna. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param: "These material elements, they are inferior quality, and beyond this, there is another, superior quality. That is soul." Jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. So you have to know from the books. That you now understand?Indian man (5): Swamiji, they read a lot that Bhagavata says that our body is a temple for the soul, and the soul is a temple for the spirit. Would you kindly enlighten us on this point?Prabhupada: That is already explained, that you are soul within this body, the body superficially covered with the senses. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah manasas tu para buddhih [Bg. 3.42]. You have to analyze that "First of all, I am prominent by my senses. My body means my senses. But the senses are useless unless there is mind." Indriyebhyah param manah. If your mind is not in order, your senses cannot act. Therefore mind is superior than the senses, and the mind cannot act if you have no intelligence. So manasas tu para buddhih. And if you can go beyond the intelligence, then you can find out what is soul. So it requires study. It requires education. The education is there. The books are there. The teachers are there. Unfortunately you are not interested to take the spiritual education. You are now interested in technology, how to hammer, that's all.Indian man (6): It is told that athato brahma jijnasa. Whether to attain that Brahman you should follow that Brahman which is qualityless and shapeless, that is nirgunakara or sodasakara(?)?Prabhupada: Brahman is always greater than anything. If you limit within some limited idea, that is not brahma-jnana. Brahman is unlimited, the greatest. Brhatvan brhanatvat(?). So Brahman includes everything -- nirakara, sakara, and whatever you can speak. But Brahman ultimately is sakara. It's not nirakara. That is the verdict of the sastra.vadanti tat tattva-vidastattvam yaj jnanam advayambrahmeti paramatmetibhagavan iti sabdyate[SB 1.2.11]This is brahma-jnana. Brahman... Sarvam khalv idam brahma. Everything Brahman, but there is division-brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Just like the sun. The sunshine is impersonal, but the sun globe is localized and the sun-god is person, but the same sun. Similarly, you have to understand Brahman. When you cannot understand the real nature of Brahman, then it is nirakara. And when you partially understand, Paramatma, then localized. And you fully understand, that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna.Devotees: Jaya! (applause)Indian man (6): It is said that first athato brahma jijnasa, and then it is said athato brahma jijnasa. It is said by one Yajnavalkya. Is there any difference between these two?Prabhupada: So brahma-jijnasa, spiritual inquiry. So the cat and dog cannot inquire. It is not possible. But when you have got this human form of body, especially born in India and especially born in a Brahman family, if you misuse your life like cats and dogs, that is a great loss.Indian man (7): Idol worship, impersonal, considered as a stepping stone. Is it fact?Prabhupada: I don't follow. What is that?Tamala Krsna: "Is worshiping the idol a stepping stone?"Indian man (7): Idol worship, murti-puja, is considered as a stepping stone only. When you attain something, then you need not do.Prabhupada: So unless you step one by one, how you can go to the topmost? You have to.Indian man (7): After attaining that.Prabhupada: Yes. First of all you have to step on the first step, then second step, then... Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So everything requires training and knowledge.Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. That's all.Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.Tamala Krsna: Kirtana. [break]Indian man (8): Can you please explain that it is our only way out for salvation?Prabhupada: Yes. People are so fallen that they cannot take the life of tapasya. Athato brahma jijnasa. This is the life of tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. So, tapasa brahmacaryena yamena niyamena va [SB 6.1.13]. So, there is process of tapasya, but in this age, Kali-yuga, people are so fallen that they cannot undergo all the items of tapasya. It is very difficult. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Caitanya Mahaprabhu has not manufactured. It is mentioned in the sastra that only by this process.kaler dosa-nidhe rajannasti hy eko mahan gunahkirtanad eva krsnasyamukta-sangah param vrajet[SB 12.3.51]This is special concession to the Kali-yuga, that there are so many faults in this age, but if one sticks to this principle of kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet, he becomes liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.Indian man (8): And is it so, that in Srimad-Bhagavata it is also written, many really great men want to be here in Kali-yuga, because it is easier to be for salvation? Only by...Prabhupada: Yes. That I am speaking. Kirtanad eva krsnasya. Krsnasya kirtanad eva mukta-sangah param. Simply by chanting. Therefore we practically see that these Western people, they are not coming from high-class brahmana or Vaisnava family, but still, by kirtanad eva krsnasya they are becoming so liberated that they are preaching Krsna consciousness all over the world.Indian man (8): Another thing, my last question. I shall not disturb you. The name is power, and to utter name...Prabhupada: The name is the person. This is absolute. Absolute.Indian man (8): Personified.Prabhupada: Not personified. He is person.nama cintamanih krsnascaitanya-rasa-vigrahahpurnah suddho nitya-mukto'bhinnatvan nama-naminoh[Cc. Madhya 17.133]There is... Just like here in this material world, dual world, water and the name "water" is different. But in the spiritual world, Krsna and Krsna's name is the same. Abhinnatvan nama-naminoh. So these things are to be realized one after another if you come to the process. Thank you very much. (end)Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.20 -- Bombay, March 24, 1977, At Cross Maidan Pandal
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