ISKCON Desire Tree - Devotee Network

Connecting Devotees Worldwide - In Service Of Srila Prabhupada




Pradyumna: (reading) "A living entity is offered a particular type of body as a result of his action in the present body. These activities are taken into account by superior authority known as daiva, or the authority of God. This daiva is explained in the Bhagavad-gita as the prime cause of everything, and in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that a man takes his next body by daiva-netrena, which means by the supervision of the authority of the Supreme. In an ordinary sense, daiva is explained as destiny. Daiva supervision gives us a body selected from 8,400,000 forms. The choice does not depend on our selection, but is awarded to us according to or destiny."
Prabhupada: So material rasas. That is being experienced in different types of body. Just like somebody wants to taste fresh blood, flesh and blood. So he's given the next life a body like a tiger, like a other carnivorous animal, and he tastes very nicely blood and flesh. Nature gives all the facilities.

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Prakrti, nature is doing everything. I am desiring something. That means I am contacting, contacting the certain type of the modes of material nature. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita: karanam guna-sangah asya sad-asad-janma-yonisu. Sad-asad-janma-yoni. Yoni means the source of birth. Mother is called yoni, and father is called bija. Yatha yoni yatha bijam. According to bijam and according to yoni, we get body. So why you are getting different types of body? Karanam guna-sangah asya. He is contacting a particular type of the modes of material nature. There are three modes of material nature: sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So if I am associating with sattva-guna, then next life, I'll get a sattva-guna body. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha. [Bg. 14.18] Sattva-guna body means higher standard of life. So similarly, if I am associating with the modes of passion, then I'll get a body, next life, passionate. If I am associating with ignorance, tamo-guna, jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Tamasah. Tama-vrtti. The jaghanya, the lowest. There are so many varieties of life. So those who are associating with tamo-guna, drinking, flesh eating, smoking, illicit sex, gambling... These are the association of tamo-guna. Yatra papas catur-vidha. Where there are four kinds of sinful activities. So intoxication is sinful activities. That is tamo-guna. Associating with tamo-guna. So jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Those who are associating with tamo-guna, their vrtti, their habits, are very abominable. Jaghanya. Therefore adho gacchanti. They go downwards.

In this way, everyone is enjoying a particular type of rasa, material rasa... and nature is offering him a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinam. We can enjoy a particular type of rasa... Just like the hogs. They are relishing the rasa of stool very nicely. You give them nice food, they'll not take. They'll prefer to taste the stool. Why? Because he has been offered a particular type of body. And this particular type of body has been offered to him, karanam guna-sangah asya... He has associated with jaghanya, tamo-guna, abominable tamo-guna. Therefore he has developed a body of a hog, and tasting the juice of stool. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. Actually, it is the living spirit soul, either hog or dog or a brahmana or a candala or a cow. This is simply a covering, or... Just like we cover ourself in dream. That is subtle covering. Similarly, this is also covering. In the Vedas it is said, asango hy ayam purusah. Actually, the living entity, the spirit soul, is neither hog, neither dog, nor brahmana, nor this, nor that. It is simply a covering. But this covering is developed by our association with the particular type of modes of nature. Karanam guna-sangah asya sad-asad-janma-yonisu.

But in this life, if we develop Krsna consciousness by association of devotees... As Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. One's aim of life should be to serve the acaryas. Acarya upasanam. So our acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, the sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha, sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha, the Six Gosvamins, and if we associate with them... this book, Nectar of Devotion, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, if you read regularly, try to understand, this means you are associating with Srila Rupa Gosvami directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet. Tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. And unless you are associated with devotees, you will not be able to understand the import of the writings of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's secretary, Sri Svarupa Damodara, recommended one brahmana, bhagavat para giya bhagavat sthane. Bhagavat... He, he came to Caitanya Mahaprabhu to read some poetry he had written, but it was the system that unless anything written... There were many devotees. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was living at Puri, Jagannatha Puri. So many devotees from other provinces used to come and visit. And some of them wrote some poetries. But all of them, first of all, would be tested by Svarupa Damodara. And then he'll be allowed to go before Caitanya Mahaprabhu and read it. That was the system. Because people do not know siddhanta. General people. Those who are advanced devotee, they know siddhanta, the conclusion. In the Caitanya-caritamrta, therefore, it has been advised,

siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa
iha haite krsne lage sudrdha manasa
[Adi 2.117]

If you neglect siddhanta, conclusion, given by the acaryas, then you will misunderstand Krsna. Krsna, therefore Narottama dasa Thakura says... These are the evidences.

rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti
kabe hama bhujhaba se yugala-piriti

Narottama dasa Thakura, such an exalted acarya, he's teaching us, "Don't try to understand yugala-piriti, the love affairs between Radha and Krsna, concoctedly, by your own concoction." No. You should first of all try to serve the Six Gosvamis, rupa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti, how they are directing. Just like this Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. Srila Rupa Gosvami is not teaching in the beginning the loving affairs of Radha-Krsna. No. He's training, first of all, the reader, the devotee, how to become first of all pure devotee.

anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
[Brs. 1.1.11]

First of all, he's trying to bring the devotee to the standard devotional service. Vidhi-marga. Then gradually, when he becomes accustomed, then raga-marga will be revealed. Raga-marga is not artificial. It becomes, svayam eva sphuraty adhah. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau... [Brs. 1.2.234]. Everything, devotional relationship with Krsna, you cannot establish artificially. Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krsna in his original constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the sastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si... That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. So svarupa-siddhi is attained at a certain stage. Just like svarupa-siddhi... The desire for sex life is there in every human being, but when the boy and the girl come to the mature stage, it become manifest. It is, is not learned artificially. Similarly, the raga-marga, svarupa-siddhi, becomes revealed or manifest. Sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Udaya. This very word, udaya, is used. Just like sun. Sun becomes visible when the sun rises automatically. You cannot force the sun to rise at dead of night. That is not possible. Sun will rise. You just wait. When the time will be right, morning, six o'clock, you'll find the sun.

Similarly, the devotional service, we have to execute with patience, with enthusiasm. Utsahat dhairyat niscayat tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. We must be enthusiastic that we... "I shall engage myself very nicely in Krsna consciousness movement." That is first qualification, enthusiastic. Dullness will not help you. You must be very enthusiastic. My Guru Maharaja used to say, prana ache yara sei hetu pracara. A preacher can, a person can become a preacher if he has got life. A dead man cannot become a preacher. So you must be very enthusiastic that "I shall preach the glories of the Lord to my best capacity." It is not that one has to become very learned scholar to become a preacher. Simply it requires enthusiasm, "My Lord is so great, so kind, so beautiful, so wonderful. So I must speak something about my Lord." This is the qualification, enthusiasm. You may not know Krsna very perfectly. It is not possible to know Krsna very perfectly. Krsna is unlimited. We cannot know Krsna cent percent. That is not possible. But Krsna reveals as far as possible you can understand. So if we are sincere servant of Krsna, utsahan, and if we serve patiently, then Krsna reveals.

The example is given in this connection. Just like a girl is married. Generally, a girl wants a child. But if she wants a child immediately after marriage, that is not possible. She must wait. She must serve her husband nicely. Utsahan dhairyat tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. Just like a faithful wife. Time will come she will become pregnant and she will have child. So niscayat means... Just like the girl must know because she's married, because she has got a husband, that there must be a child. It is a fact. It may be little later. Similarly, when you have entered into devotional service, bhakti-yoga, bhakti-marga, your success is assured, provided you are enthusiastic and patient. Not that "Immediately I want a child," "Immediately I become fully Krsna consciousness and perfect." No. There may be so many imperfections. Because we are in the imperfect atmosphere. But patiently, if you go on executing your duties in devotional service as it is directed in the sastras and confirmed by the spiritual master, then rest assured that your success if guaranteed. This is the way. Utsahan dhairyat tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. You must execute the duties.

Just like we have asked our students to finish sixteen rounds chanting minimum. Sixteen rounds is nothing. In Vrndavana there are many devotees, they chant 120 rounds. Like that. So sixteen rounds is the minimum. Because I know in the Western countries it is difficult job to finish sixty-four rounds or 120 rounds, like that. Minimum sixteen rounds. That must be finished. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. This is the direction. Observing the regulative principles. In this way, we must be abiding by the direction of the spiritual master and the sastra. Then rest assured. Success if guaranteed. Go on reading, next.

Pradyumna: "If our body at present..."

Prabhupada: Bring the light. Hm. Go on.

Pradyumna: "If our body at present is engaged in the activities of Krsna consciousness, then it is guaranteed that we will have at least a human body in our next life."

Prabhupada: So one thing is guaranteed. If you engage in Krsna consciousness and suppose you do not become perfectly mature, some way or other, you fall down... We should not fall down. Because if we have got enthusiasm and patience, we shall not fall down. But suppose we fall down. Sastra says, tasya abhadra abhud amusya kim. There is nothing inauspicity because whatever you have done sincerely, that is recorded in the book. In the Krsna's book. Krsna has got accountant. He keeps nice account of the activities of His devotees. That's a fact. Just like the nondevotees' accounts are kept by Yamaraja for punishment. Similarly, devotees' accounts are kept by Krsna, personally. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Unless he keeps account, how He says, "I respond to the devotee to the proportionate surrender"? Ye yatha mam prapadyante. The real business is surrender to Krsna. If we surrender immediately, cent percent, then Krsna also gives you the result immediately, cent percent. Krsna says,

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisya...
[Bg. 18.66]

If Krsna relieves me from all kinds of sinful activities, then where is my miserable condition of life? Miserable condition of life is for them who are enjoying or suffering... There is no question of enjoyment. But it sometimes taken, enjoyment. The fruitive action, the result of fruitive action. So a devotee does not enjoy anything or suffer anything. Because a devotee does everything for Krsna. So therefore for his personal self, there is no question of karma-phala. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita: yajnarthe karma anyatra karma-bandhanah. If you act for Krsna, that is nice. If you act otherwise, then it is karma-bandhana. Yajnarthe karma anytra. Anyatra. Anyatra means except Krsna consciousness activities, the activities of the karmis and the jnanis and the yogis, they are all karma-bandhana, bound up. Suppose karmis, they are going to the heavenly planet or higher planetary system for getting higher standard of life, to take birth by pious activities in nice family, to become rich. But that is bandhana. That is bondage.

Similarly, the so-called mukti, jnanis, they merge into the existence, Brahman existence, of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nirbheda-brahmanusandhana. Nirbheda, without any distinction, enter, merge into the Brahman. That is also bandhana, bondage. Why? Because we find in the sastras: aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Aruhya krcchrena param padam. Param padam means brahma-pada, to merge into the effulgence, brahmajyoti. That is called param pada. According to Vaisnava, param pada means to go to Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana and be engaged as servant, eternal servant of the Lord. But according to the jnanis, the param pada means merge into the effulgence of brahmajyoti. Sastra says that aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. To go to that param padam, that is also not very easy. Krcchrena. Severe austerities and penances, one has to undergo to merge into the Brahman effulgence. Therefore you'll find, the Mayavadi sannyasis, their stricture is very rigid. They must take bath thrice in, in a day and lie down underneath a tree and... Their renunciation is very rigid. Of course, those who are strictly following. In our Brahma, Vaisnava sannyasa, there is little leniency. Because they live in Krsna, so there is no need of very strict, rigid following. Although it is stated that they should live like this. But there is leniency. But Mayavada, they are very rigid in their principles of sannyasa life. That is called aruhya krcchrena. Krcchrena, with great difficulty, they merge into the Brahman effulgence. Aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. They attain in the perfectional stage. Not perfectional. Param padam. In the spiritual realm. But patanty adhah. Again falls down. Again falls down means because in the effulgence there is no varieties. The example is just like you have got a nice sputnik or, what is called...?

Indian man: Apollo. Apollo.

Prabhupada: No, no. By which they go?

Indians and Devotees: Rocket.

Prabhupada: Rocket, rocket. You have not very nice rocket running at the speed of eighteen thousand miles or twenty-five thousand miles per hour. But you may go. If you don't take, if you don't get shelter in some planet... Just as they're going in the moon planet, but do not get shelter and come back, similarly, supposing they are getting shelter, but that shelter is not very secure. They again come back. So without shelter, how long you can fly in the sky? The sky is unlimited. You can fly on your sputnik or capsules, but if you don't get the shelter in some planet, then again you come back to your place. So this is... The same example is given in the Bhagavata: aruhya krcchrena, with great scientific method you can go up. But if you don't get a shelter, then you come back again on this planet. Similarly, the nondevotees, the impersonalists, they undergo severe penances and austerities undoubtedly, and they rise up to the brahmajyoti... Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. From there, he again falls down. Same example. Why? Anadhrta-yusmad-anghrayah. Because they did not care for the shelter under the lotus feet of Krsna, therefore they have to come back again to this material world.

That is practically experienced. We have seen many, many great sannyasis. They give up this world and take sannyasa for merging into Brahman, but later on they come back again to the material activities for opening hospital, schools, and philanthropic work. Why? Because they could not get there. In their so-called Brahman realization, they could not get any pleasure. Therefore they come down again to the material activities. You have left this material world as brahma satyam jagan mithya. Then why you come back again to this mithya world, to open hospitals and schools? The reason is they could not get any pleasure in so-called Brahman-realization. Therefore they come back to give food to the poor, to open hospital, philanthropic work. So...

Indian Devotee: (in background) Haribol! Nitai Gaura Haribol!

Prabhupada: Therefore...

Devotee: (Hindi -- Jaya Radhe!)

Prabhupada: Therefore, if you stick to Krsna consciousness, you will enjoy blissful, transcendental blissfulness. Then you'll not be attracted with this humanitarian work or philanthropic work. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. In the service of the Lord, there are so much pleasure, transcendental pleasure. Just like in the life of Gosvamis, we find:

tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tucchavat
bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina kantasritau
gopi-bhava-rasamrtabdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau sada
vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau

They gave up their ministerial posts. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tucchavat. Most insignificant. They gave up their ministerial posts. And they became mendicants. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tucchavat bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina-kantasritau. Became very poor, voluntarily mendicant. It is very difficult. If one changes his dress artificially by imitating Rupa Gosvami, he cannot stay. He'll have to take to sex pleasure and intoxication to keep himself fit for bhajana. No. But the Gosvamis, they did not take into sex pleasure or intoxication. They were merged into the ocean of the dealings of the gopis with Krsna. Gopi-bhava-rasamrtabdhi-lahari. There is a... Lahari. There is a flow, constant flow of waves, in the ocean of loving affairs between Krsna and the gopis, So they were merged into that. Therefore this renunciation, this material renunciation, did not affect. Otherwise, if one artificially renounce this material world, and he does not get real shelter unto the lotus feet of Krsna, he'll fall down. That's a fact. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. So if you want to stay attached to the lotus feet of Krsna, then you must always keep yourself busy in the transcendental loving service of Lord.

Thank you very much. [break]

>>> Ref. VedaBase => The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, October 20, 1972



The Nectar of Devotion
--
Vrndavana, October 21, 1972


Prabhupada:...meeting, that just now I have received one newspaper cutting. This is from South Africa. What is the city's name?

Devotee (1): Durban, Durban.

Prabhupada: Durban. So these two young gosvamis, they are preaching very successfully in South Africa. And another news I have got. Where it is from...?

Devotee (1): From Satsvarupa...

Devotee (2): Midwest.

Prabhupada: Midwest of America. Another two gosvamis, they are having very successful meeting in midwest America. The, in South Africa, they're, boys... What is the age of Rsi Kumara?

Devotee (1): Twenty.

Devotee (2): Twenty.

Prabhupada: Yes. His age is only twenty years. Rsi Kumara Gosvami left and Haridasa brahmacari. They have come to South Africa to spread the word, "Krsna message for S.A." South Africa. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya, the message of His Lordship is going on nicely all over the world. And you are also members of the Society. Try to preach this message. Prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama. And you will get strength. The more you preach. Because in the Bhagavad-gita, the Lord says,
na ca tasmat manusyesu
kascit me priya-krttamah
ya imam mad-bhaktesu
adhidasati... (?)

Anyone who is preaching the message of Lord Caitanya or Lord Krsna, the same thing... There is no difference. Krsna said that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is Krsna's. Krsna's message. And Lord Caitanya says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So there is no difference. Krsna's upadesa is to everyone that everyone should give up all nonsense type of occupation... Kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah yajante anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. Those who are attached to the worship of demigods, they have been condemned by Krsna: hrta-jnanah. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has commented on this word, hrta-jnanah: nasta-buddhayah, "those who have lost their all intelligence." So our Krsna consciousness movement is preaching the same as Lord Krsna said and as Lord Caitanya said. Lord Krsna said that "You surrender." He asked everyone, not only Arjuna. Through Arjuna, He spoke to everyone. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg. 9.31]. He was preaching His own word through Arjuna. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He's Krsna Himself. He's preaching the same message as devotee. So our business is to preach this same message through the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So if we follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu...

To follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu means to follow the six Gosvamis. This is called parampara system. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayoh viduh [Bg. 4.2]. If we follow the parampara system... The same message, what Krsna said, that is also said by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that is also said by the Gosvamis. Sri Rupa Gosvami says, yena tena prakarena manah krsna nivesayet. Somehow or other, try to induce people to become Krsna conscious. This is Gosvami's, Rupa Gosvami's message. Where you are sitting, this is Rupa Gosvami's place. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says the same thing. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So these boys, Rsi Kumara Gosvami and others, Satsvarupa Gosvami, Hrdayananda Gosvami, they're preaching the mes..., same message, Krsna message. In the paper: "Krsna message in South Africa." "Krsna message in South Africa." This is very encouraging, that Krsna message is being spread as Caitanya Mahaprabhu desired. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. This is very encouraging. So all of you... Of course, Caitanya Mahaprabhu entrusted the matter to all Indians, especially.

bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara paropakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

The best welfare activity is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement. So it was entrusted to the, to all Indians. Any Indian who has taken birth as human being, it is the duty of him to spread Krsna consciousness. But anyway, although there is only one Indian, (laughter) you follow, and, and spread this message extensively. After this urja-vrata, you'll also spread this Krsna consciousness move..., message.

The Krsna consciousness message is krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There is no other Bhagavan. Bhagavan means full of six opulences. So Krsna is completely, cent percent full of all opulences. Even Narayana, He is ninety-six percent. And Lord Siva is eighty-four percent. And Brahma is seventy-eight percent. These are calculated by the Gosvamis. So Krsna is cent percent Bhagavan. And Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Nanyat. Nobody. So simply you have to... Just like our little girl, Sarasvati, she also preaches. She goes to some friend. She asks, "Do you know what is Krsna?" If he says "No, I do not know very much." So she says, "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. This is preaching. It is not difficult. Simply, just like the child, you go everyone, talk to everyone that "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That's all. Everyone can do it. It is not very difficult. You believe it. You be convinced on the statement that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1].

Isvara means controller, governor. So there are governors, many governors in your country, but there are not supreme governor. Everyone is governor. You are also governor, or isvara, controller. But not the supreme controller. Our message is that here in this material world, there are many controllers, many governors, many isvaras, but nobody is the supreme isvara. Supreme isvara means He has no controller over Him. He has no controller over Him. He's the supreme controller. Here, everyone is controller, but he has got another controller over him. But even big, big demigods... Just like Indra, Candra, Surya, Vayu, Varuna, they have also controller. Even Lord Brahma. He's also controlled. Only Krsna or Krsna-tattva, Visnu-tattva, He's not controlled. He's the supreme controller. So,

isvarah paramah krsnah
sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah
anadir adir govindah
sarva-karana-karanam
[Bs. 5.1]

This is our message. So read. Why don't you keep open? No. There is no other copy? Go on. Go on. Read. [break]

Pradyumna: "...in bhakti-rasa can be understood by a serious student upon studying The Nectar of Devotion. Adoption of bhakti-rasa, or Krsna consciousness, will immediately bring one to an auspicious life, free from anxieties, and will bless one with transcendental existence, thus minimizing the value of liberation. Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling of liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes. People generally think that liberation is the ultimate goal or the full achievement. But liberation is a very insignificant thing in the presence of devotional service. Therefore Bhagavata says, dharmah projjhita-kaitavah atra. Dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. Moksa means liberation. So Bhagavata says that dharma artha kama moksa, they are thrown away from the study of Srimad-Bhagavatam. And Sridhara Swami confirms it: atra moksa-vancah-paryantam nirastam. A devotee is above the point of liberation. The devotional service is called pancama-purusartha. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given His opinion: prema pumartho mahan. Not dhara is pumarthah. Our ultimate goal of life is neither dharma, or artha, religiosity, economic development, kama, sense gratification, and moksa, liberation.

So people are very busy for economic development. They think that is the highest goal of life. To get money somehow or other; and then, after getting money, to satisfy the senses. And when they are defeated in satisfying senses, defeated... Defeated means everyone is trying to satisfy his senses to the greatest extent. Unfortunately, maya will now allow him to do so. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. Therefore Bhagavata says, parabhavas tavad abodha-jatah. Parabhavah. The karmis who are trying to satisfy their senses to the highest limit, they are being defeated. It cannot be. Nobody's satisfied with the senses, to the greatest extent. In Europe and America, this can very practically experienced. Many, many, old, very rich men, seventy-five years old, seventy years old, they're still going to the club for satisfying the senses. That means the sense satisfaction business cannot be completely done even to the point of death.

There are many stories. We have got practical experience that Akbar Shah inquired from his, one of his very confidential ministers that "How long a man is sexually inclined?" So the minister replied that "Up to the point of death." He replied. The Akbar did not believe it. But the minister sometimes took him to a man who was goi..., just going to die, and the minister requested Akbar Shah to get with him his young daughter. So when the Akbar Shah and his daughter was entering, the man on the death bed, he was looking to the young girl, not to the Akbar. So he pointed out, "Just see." And he was convinced, "Yes." So the sex life is so strong that you cannot be satisfied. If you re..., remain in material existence, then this sex desire will never be satisfied. But it can be satisfied only when you come to Krsna consciousness. This Yamunacarya has said,

yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravindayoh
nava-nava-(rasa)-dhamany (udyatam) rantum asit
tad-avadhi bata nari-sangame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikarah susthu nisthivanam ca

Sri Yamunacarya says, "Since I have been engaged in serving the lotus feet of Krsna, from that time I do not any more have any desire for sex life. Even if I do remember of sex life, I want to spite on it." So this is the result. Krsna is Madana-Mohana. Madana-Mohana. Madana, Cupid, he agitates everyone for sex life. But if we actually be attached to see the beauty of Krsna then we shall never be enamored by the arrows of Cupid. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. So... What is the subject matter?

Pradyumna: "...thus minimizing the value of liberation."

Prabhupada: So this is the position of the materialistic person. Therefore sometimes they take to the path of rejection, giving up. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. They come, by knowledge, by advancement of knowledge. But sometimes that also becomes failure. Even liberation. I have several times explained that many persons on the platform of liberation also falls down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. One who does not take shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, even he is raised to the platform of liberation, there is chance of fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam. Param padam means liberation, not material platform, but param padam. spiritual platform. Spiritual platform means liberation. So unless one is attached to... Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32], why they fall down? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah. One who neglects to worship the lotus feet of Krsna, even he is on the liberation platform, mukti, there is chance of falling down. And there are many examples. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Bhakti-rasa itself is sufficient to produce a feeling a liberation because it attracts the attention of the Supreme Lord, Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as you are engaged in the service, loving service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, immediately you feel liberation. This is practically. When you are fully engaged in Krsna consciousness, even if you walk on the street, you'll feel that "I am separate from these persons. I am in a, I am walking on a different path." This is the feeling. Bhaktih paresanubhavah. This is bhakti. Paresanubhava. You'll anubha..., you will experience yourself. That is the test. If you experience yourself that "I am different from these persons," then where is the attachment for material things? So that is the test; how much you have become advanced in devotional service, you can experience yourself. The example is given: Just like a hungry man, if he's given food, if he eats, then he experiences himself that he's getting strength, his hunger is being satisfied. The, these things will be experienced. He hasn't got to take certificate from others, "Whether I am advancing in spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness." He'll feel himself. Bhaktih paresanubhava viraktir anyatra syat. This is the test.

Just like Gosvamis, the six Gosvamis. They were ministers. How they gave up their lucrative service, engagement? Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada tucchavat. They gave up their minister, high posts, association of aristocratic families, mandala-pati-srenim. They were, themselves, not only mandala-pati, great leaders, but they were associate with great leaders. But they gave up everything. Why? Param drstva nivartate. They found something better in Krsna consciousness. Therefore they were able to give up. Just like you are. You are. European and American boys, you were accustomed to better, comfortable life. I know. But you have given up your better, comfortable life, and you have learned, or you are satisfied lying down on the floor, without any bedding. How you have been practiced to it? Because you are trying to find out a better engagement. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59].

Sometimes in your country, they are surprised how we are living without furniture. Because without furniture, living is impossible. Sometimes in the beginning, when I was accommodated in some apartment, the landlord used to inquire, "Oh, where is your furniture?" So they do not know they don't require furniture. We can lie down anywhere. It doesn't matter whether in a nice apartment or on the, underneath a tree. That doesn't matter. So how these things happen? Unless one becomes little advanced, one has got little taste in devotional service, they cannot give up these material comforts. The Gosvamis are the best example. They were coming from very, very aristocratic family. They were, they did not join the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement out of poverty-stricken. No. All of them, six Gosvamis... Just like Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, they were very, very big men, ministers, very rich men. Similarly, Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. He was the only son of his father and uncle. And at that time his father and uncle had twelve lakhs of rupees income. So you cannot imagine what is the exchange of twelve lakhs of rupees five hundred years ago. So very rich man. Similarly, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta, and Sri Jiva Gosvami. He was the jewel of all learned philosophers. That is acknowledged even by the greatest philosophers of the world.
The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, October 21, 1972

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