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Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
Subtle body consists of mind, body, false ego.
The function of the mind is to make us run behind things, it is fickle by nature, very strong, capable of defeating the most resolute. Needs to be controlled.
The function of intelligence is discrimination - it distinguishes between right and wrong, based on our conditioning. It is supposed to be superior to the mind and more subtle, but it is powerless in the hands of the uncontrolled mind.
False ego is the sense of identification of the soul with the body. THe feeling of I is ego. The function of ego is to constantly tell the self - you are right, everyone else is wrong, everything around you should be as per you at all times.
The false ego has to be purified into I am soul, part and parcel of supersoul. My duty is to reestablish my lost relationship with the God and render service unto Him.
Radha Rasamayi DD
So it's sookshma that reincarnates or is it jivatman that reincarnates?
Question not understood clearly.
Soul does not incarnate at all. It simply changes bodies. Its called birth and death in our language.
When the soul leaves the body, it leaves only the gross body. As long as the soul is present in the material worlds, the subtle body goes with the soul. In other words, soul is carried from one body to another by the subtle body.
I hope this helps.
Hare Krishna mataji,
I want to ask humbly a question here, is subtle body is abstract in form or it has physical existence. Would you plz tell me abt Karan sharir also in simple terms.
Pls give name of the book you referred to give this answer. Certainly not Bhagavad Gita As It Is.
Thank you for the reference. Your answer is much more detailed than the reference given by you. I want to know that reference.
I have not heard of soul having karana shareer, that is the main reason I am asking.
I havent been able to see the video. Not able to access from office.
So what you are saying is sookshma sarira is karana sarira - subtle body is causal body?
I am aware of the koshas and the need for harmony among them for a person to survive in a body. But heard of the body for the first time.
It is very nice that you take so much trouble to research before answering any question.
You told me once that you have come to this forum to be able to read more of Srila Prabhupada books. I think it would be a good idea if you research on Srila Prabhupada books. That way both our purposes are solved. You get to read SP books and we get to hear from you what His Divine Grace has said on any particular topic. You could also refer to present gurus lectures and writings.
Just a suggestion. Would that be possible?
Radha Rasamayi DD
I think the purport given to the verse..
is told by Srila Prabhupada only? I donno.
It has the names of koshas.... is learning names only enough don't want to know what they stand for?
anyways I removed my posts.. maybe out of syllabus.
first time i came to know in that vid.. There is difference between Bhagwat gita and Bhagwatam interpretation.
anyways better to stick to BG spoken by lord.
bhagwatam is old stuff spoken by old sages.. different philosophies and different ways of expressing things the same old thing.
never heard till now about Vaisheshika philosophy until i saw that video.
Sankhya is known. And Sankhya is spoken in Bhagwatam ..
Its better we don't indulge in learning too much .. I have already told that this is bookish and more for a gyani then for a devotee.
anyways mata ji i removed my posts.
Hare Krishna Mata ji PAMHO,
I am trying to analyse this from what you said in simple terms.. It is my humble request to pls. go thru it.
I am trying my best to make it easy to understand for you, as well as for me, as well as for the person who asked the question.
Subtle body is made up of mind, body and false ego. as u said..
what is body here?
physical body u will leave on the earth.
you have told..mata ji
'' As long as the soul is present in the material worlds, the subtle body goes with the soul."
what is subtle body which is going with the soul?
I don't think mind and false ego or intellect can go without a body to hell or heaven to suffer or enjoy the results of past karmas right?
The soul has to have a subtle body with should have impressions of the past bad/ good karams to either suffer for the results of bad or enjoy the results of good karma.
what impressions carried on that subtle body is the karnaa.. cause.
Chapter 13 verse 22.. Bhagwat Gita..AS IT IS.
purusah prakrti-stho hi
bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan
karanam guna-sango 'sya
karanam guna sango sya.
karanam—cause; guna-sangah—association with the modes of nature;
This is the cause.
Soul has 5 sheeth of covereings ( AS GIVEN BY DIVINE GRACE SRILA PRABHUPADA ) in the purport https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/6/15/12-15
1. annamaya kosha.. ( made of annam=food) which is sthool shareera or physical body.
2. Prana maya kosha==>( Prana= life air.) this is also left..
annamaya== made up of (ANNAM or food which we eat..makes the gross body) is left to decay on the earth mixes with the earth become dust.
Prana maya kosha ..==>or life air is left and it mixes with the air..
3. Manomaya kosha==> ( mind).
4. Vignana maya kosha ==>( intellect).
5. ananda maya kosha the last layer of the soul.= ( Bliss) which is quality of the soul which is shared by soul in common with the supreme bliss.
** We say soul is quality wise same as Supersoul right? that is anandamaya kosha***
now.. after dropping the annamaya kosha( body formed by food) and pranamaya kosha.( life air) what is left... ???????
Soul is left with mind, intellect and false ego.
now mind, intellect and false ego cannot go to hell or heaven and suffer/ enjoy results of bad karma or good karma without a body RIGHT?
Soul has to have a smookshma sharrera or the causal body or karana shareera.
to suffer/enjoy the results in hell or heaven.
The karna shareera/sookshma shareera will have impression of the past bad karmas or good karmas..
refer to this vid.. at 3:54 min. it is said by Chaitanya Charan Prabhu ji as. sometimes Karana Shareera is same as or similar to sookhshma shareera.
the soul accumulates the karmas for all activities performed by the body. This stockpile of karmas, accumulated from innumerable past lives, causes its repeated birth in superior and inferior wombs.
This is what I have understood.
I don't want to argue more on this.
This is given in bhagwat gita as simply as "karana guna sangah'' but given in detail subtly at many places in bhagwatam.
This is the process of the soul's transmigration from one body to another. At the time of death, according to his mental condition, the living being is carried by the subtle body, consisting of mind, intelligence and ego, to another gross body. When higher authorities have decided what kind of gross body the living entity will have, he is forced to enter such a body, and thus he automatically gives up his previous body. Dull-minded persons who do not have the intelligence to understand this process of transmigration take for granted that when the gross body is finished, one's life is finished forever. Such persons have no brains with which to understand the process of transmigration.
SB 8.5.28 — In the cycle of material activities, the material body resembles the wheel of a mental chariot. The ten senses [five for working and five for gathering knowledge] and the five life airs within the body form the fifteen spokes of the chariot’s wheel. The three modes of nature [goodness, passion and ignorance] are its center of activities, and the eight ingredients of nature [earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego] comprise the rim of the wheel. The external, material energy moves this wheel like electrical energy. Thus the wheel revolves very quickly around its hub or central support, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul and the ultimate truth. We offer our respectful obeisances unto Him.
gross material body and subtle material bodies given in totality .. Sankhya 26 is given in Bhagwatam. (matter +finite consciousness + infinite consciousness).
as per the vid--->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyIHERN3iBA
Hare Krsna Mataji,
I didnt ask you to delete any post at all. I am trying to learn from you - this karana shareer concept is new to me.
Anyways, I will stick to what I have read in Gita about subtle body - it consists of mind, intelligence and false ego. Each element is more subtle than the previous element. The soul is carried from one body to another the way air carries aroma.
When a soul is banished to hell, it gets a yatana shareer - body to tolerate the torture it has to go through. Our normal bodies will not be able to take the torture that happens in hell. Therefore, the yatana shareer.
The impressions of karma and one's own nature as a consequence is stored in mind and intelligence. That is the reason we can see different natures of even animals. Any one who has kept a pet will tell you that the nature of two pets can be absolutely different. How does that happen? Its because of the subtle body, the conditioning of the soul.
When the soul purifies enough to go back to the spiritual world, it leaves the subtle body behind and enters the spiritual world.
This is not an arguement. It is a discussion. We are discussing in a discussion forum. We can even agree to disagree, there is no issue in that. As long as there is mutual respect, and we are not saying anything against ISKCON, using foul language or promoting our websites through this forum.
Radha Rasamayi DD