Hare Krishna to all,Bg 12.11 — If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me, then try to act givingup all results of your work and try to be selfsituated.Bg 12.12 — If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the cultivation of knowledge.Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of thefruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind.I want to know that whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction.For example, To protect our body is our duty. If we eat vegetables only and to live only,not for taste. Will it bind us. If yes then why?If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty as if Arjuna fights for destroying the evil, injustice and kills miscreants in the Mahabharat. Will it bind us?
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Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya sarvam iti mahatma sudarlabha, " I offer my humble respects to Sri Vasudeva the Cause of all causes. May He be merciful to me."
Divyanshu Sharma`s Question Number 1: "I want to know that whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction.For example, To protect our body is our duty. If we eat vegetables only and to live only,not for taste. Will it bind us. If yes then why? "
My personal opinion ( experience is the best teacher is what they say: For every action there is always a reaction or result of the action. The result is the fruit. In short, if you don`t want to eat/taste the result of your action. Then you wont do anything? If you steal money from the bank, you don`t want to spend the money you have stolen. If caught, you will say to the Judge, " Your honor I am not guilty because I did not spend a single sevak from what I have stolen. " Will the Judge let you go free if this what is meant by your question? Of course not! Just like prostitutes receiving money from customers for sex. The prostitutes use the money to buy food for their families which is good. But will it free the prostitutes from the immoral actions they did? Of course not! Because by having sexual intercourse with another man not her husband the latter also is guilty. It takes two to tango.
Divyanshu Sharma`s Question Number 2: "If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty as if Arjuna fights for destroying the evil, injustice and kills miscreants in the Mahabharat. Will it bind us?"
My personal opinion ( experience is the best teacher is what they say ): If Arjuna killed his enemy or relatives because Krishna ordered it. Arjuna is not bound by the result of his action. But if you are not Arjuna and you killed a person because the latter tried to rape your sister, you are still bound by the result of your action. You still have to go to court and prove your innocence for killing a man.There`s a difference between carrying out an action ordained by God or action carried out by your own freewill.
I think I mentioned to you once before Rahga, that it is do to to many or to much-(like)-frequentlys, that Sentient/or moving beings w/sometimes a
high degree of awareness/animals are different than eating plants which simply experience a shift in their energies when they ate honored as foodStuffs no fear no anger no violence or jealousy. So I said that to day this animal eating #1 is karmic/unclean in comparison #2 one cannot offer them to God so it can't become Pasoddom. You sound as if you are enjoying-vary much your scholarly persuence-with fervent zill so I won't dissuade you, please do continue noting the time factor I.e.-the one-ditectionl degenerating principal that brings all physical body's to their demise. Might I suggest spending your time on learning to produce & reproducing good karma at this point & them at the end of this life's duration you will be ellagabal to maintain or even improve your present faculties & facilities where as trying to adopt another's understanding of right & or Wong will completely consume you your mind, time & efforts. You o you Krishna's got this. Protecting the innocent from harm & abuce is good. Staying pure & steady is good, honoring & taking the shelter of God is also our duty how ever, the iterrasinkracys of what is the extent of your duty towards the /our fellow inhabitants of this planet are seemingly overly involved & disperporshunit to y-our accrual duty
Hence one can understand the complications of the science of phylasofical approach to what is duty. Y-our duty lyes souly with re-awakening y-our former love of the GodHeads at this point
CHANTING properly will do that. Nothing else will do that & then you can help others in a really meaningful way to do the same. All glory all glory to the Lord with in the heart Parramatma for His for His pastimes of pashunts and love. And all glory to you to Prahbu for you celebratory disposition & the intelligence that has brought you home back to words the Head God!-) Krishna.
DivaYanShi your questions & examples are many yet your dutys are actually very few. To assume all these responsibilities as your personal duty (though valiant) is not being fair to yourself these are all Krishna's responsibilitys indeed none of them are related to you in any way, further Krishna is offended by y_our interventions if anything. Mya-karma and situations carrots often God's way of turning our heads back towards Him. Hence helping others is more often than not creating a delay in that process. The protection of he innocent is a pastime of KRISHNA so of course that's generally OK but for the most part if you can encourage drone to tale shelter of God, Via_His Holy Mantras that is better than any other handout we might have to offer! Introduce Krishna at every turn! Trust that the omnipresence of God's awareness knows what it is doing?
hare Krishna,
Thanks prabhu but,
It is not impractical. I have provided some general practical instances in the question. By the practice, it is possible. You have taken the example of profession only but I am not talking about profession only but in general life. I am agree with you that somehow or other we shall commit sinful activities..This is not my question to be free from that. My question is something different. For more clarification please refer to my reply to Bharat prabhu.
It is not anymore practical to act without some personal motivation. The trend nowadays is to earn money even if it will earn bad karma. People slaughter animals and sell the meat to meat eaters for a profit. People manufacture illegal drugs and sell them to drug addicts. People sell their bodies to the sex starve. People sell alcohol to alcoholics. Politicians lie their way to become prime ministers. People cheat during board exams to get a license. Preachers and Gurus teach their followers the way to love God but do shenanigans in private. It so hard to find people who are righteous. It is difficult to follow God's commandments, so to speak. If people say they commit no sin, they are deemed hypocrites.
Hare Krsna Bharat prabhu,
You answered...
"Whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction ?
This is not a practical scenario. If one is not desiring the fruit of action then why is the person acting ? In most cases action has motivation."
Someone is not desiring the fruit of action but acting because it is his duty
I give some example:
(i) If someone is killing cow before him, it is the duty of a person to protect cow.
(ii) If some woman is being harassed, it is the duty of a person to protect her.
(iii) If someone sees a hungry person, it is the duty of a person to give him food.
(iv) It is the duty of a old or handicapped person require some help, it is the duty of a person to help him.
(v) If we are in Householder life, it is our duty to protect and maintain (along with make them krishna conscious) our family in a good manner (not earning money with sinful activities).
(vi) It is our duty to protect some weak person, if we see he is being exploited by the strong.
etc etc ...
We have motivation for nothing for ourselves then..... are these not NISHKAAM KARMA (actions without personal attachment), that will not bind us.
kŗşņa dasa > DIVYANSHU SHARMAMarch 11, 2016 at 3:31am
Hare Krsna,
My obeisances to all devotees, guru and gauranga.
Divyanshu prabhu, I like your name. It sounds divine to even say your name. J
Anyway, prabhu I am not that knowledged but I will give you my view on your post. Please excuse me if anything written is offensive to you.
I don’t see many of your scenarios as practical for an ordinary sadhaka. As Bharath prabhu rightly said, most of the scenarios you have covered requires protection from the law enforcement department. Since the law enforcement department and the judicial system are doing such a crap job, the sinful activities have increased but its already predicted that in this age of Kali, there is only hypocrisy and quarrel and people only think about their needs, try to meet their never ending desires and expectations and sense enjoyment and they care less for other individuals (sometimes even within their own family).
Prabhu, I am not saying cows should be slaughtered, but how many cows are you going to protect from being slaughtered? Is this even practical? How many weak persons and women are you going to save from being harassed and exploited? Is this practical? How many persons are you going to feed every day? Your thoughts are good and most would think along the same lines but we cant save everything and everyone, because we are limited.
This brings to us to scenario (v), where in you apply the caring/protection net over your family. You can try and protect your family members from exploitation and harassment by doing the best you can to keep them safe. You do your bit as the man of the house to provide for the family and keep them engaged in spiritual activities and away from sinful propensities. If this system is followed across all the families, then the above mentioned social problems will slowly fade away and eventually stopped. Your motivation (along with your family members) should be towards spiritual advancement by doing your prescribed duties with the knowledge that these family members are God's property and not mine. With this detached (not abandoned) attitude, progress becomes easy.
I have heard this line which says "Manav seva is Madhav seva", but if we think only about Manav Seva, where do we have the time for spiritual activities? Manav Seva becomes a fruitive activity and we all know that any fruitive activity will bind us. You can carry out Manav seva if you take up a role of a soldier where you are a kshatriya and you can perform the duty of protecting people as your prescribed duty, then that manav seva becomes madhav seva and this will not be binding.
Hence Srila Prabhupada always said, we need to live by the vedic rules and regulations and everyone will be happy. When everyone follows his/her prescribed dharma, society will flourish because the Supreme is satisfied. Once the unlimited and most merciful Supreme is satisfied, He protects everyone.
I don’t know if my response answered your query but this is my limited understanding prabhu.
Among the examples mentioned (v) is prescribed duty of householder. As you have mentioned about KC activities withing family, then it becomes action without attachment to the extent the motivation is spiritual. The inner motivations of a person isn't easy to ascertain. To the extent we perform prescribed duties for the pleasure of Krsna to that extent it is Krsna conscious.
The remaining examples mentioned by you are prescribed duties for a kshatriya. It is not duty of everyone.
Hare Krishna Bharat prabhu,
Thanks for your answer but I have related one more doubt. You answered...
"If the others are themselves ordinary people caught up in cycle of birth and death then actions will bind because Krsna is not involved.
The whole point of action/reaction/ bondage etc is to involve Krsna. If Krsna is involved as beneficiary then it is favorable. Else it will not be."
Doubt:-
If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty, thinking that if we help others,then krishna will be pleased. Will it bind us?
Whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction ?
This is not a practical scenario. If one is not desiring the fruit of action then why is the person acting ? In most cases action has motivation.
Instead if the question is what work doesn't bear any reaction ?
Krsna says " Work done as a sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed; otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage."(Bg 3.9)
So if sole motivation is Krsna then we are free.
If we eat vegetables only and to live only,not for taste. Will it bind us ?
We have to understand that "Life" is extremely dynamic. There will almost never be persons who want to eat and live only and do nothing else. If the question is "how can I eat and be free from bondage"
Krsna says " The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." (BG 3.13)
Considering the case where one doesn't prepare food for sense enjoyment but only survival, even then- if it involves killing or harming other living entities then it will involve sin. If one makes food without harming any other living being - like eating fruits which has fallen on the ground by nature's course will not be sinful.
If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty as, Will it bind us ?
This depends on who the "others" are. If the others are Krsna or prefect representatives of Krsna then it will not be binding us. If the others are themselves ordinary people caught up in cycle of birth and death then actions will bind because Krsna is not involved.
The whole point of action/reaction/ bondage etc is to involve Krsna. If Krsna is involved as beneficiary then it is favorable. Else it will not be.
Replies
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya sarvam iti mahatma sudarlabha, " I offer my humble respects to Sri Vasudeva the Cause of all causes. May He be merciful to me."
Divyanshu Sharma`s Question Number 1: "I want to know that whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction.For example, To protect our body is our duty. If we eat vegetables only and to live only,not for taste. Will it bind us. If yes then why? "
My personal opinion ( experience is the best teacher is what they say: For every action there is always a reaction or result of the action. The result is the fruit. In short, if you don`t want to eat/taste the result of your action. Then you wont do anything? If you steal money from the bank, you don`t want to spend the money you have stolen. If caught, you will say to the Judge, " Your honor I am not guilty because I did not spend a single sevak from what I have stolen. " Will the Judge let you go free if this what is meant by your question? Of course not! Just like prostitutes receiving money from customers for sex. The prostitutes use the money to buy food for their families which is good. But will it free the prostitutes from the immoral actions they did? Of course not! Because by having sexual intercourse with another man not her husband the latter also is guilty. It takes two to tango.
Divyanshu Sharma`s Question Number 2: "If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty as if Arjuna fights for destroying the evil, injustice and kills miscreants in the Mahabharat. Will it bind us?"
My personal opinion ( experience is the best teacher is what they say ): If Arjuna killed his enemy or relatives because Krishna ordered it. Arjuna is not bound by the result of his action. But if you are not Arjuna and you killed a person because the latter tried to rape your sister, you are still bound by the result of your action. You still have to go to court and prove your innocence for killing a man.There`s a difference between carrying out an action ordained by God or action carried out by your own freewill.
Haribol always,
Krsnaraja Melvin
high degree of awareness/animals are different than eating plants which simply experience a shift in their energies when they ate honored as foodStuffs no fear no anger no violence or jealousy. So I said that to day this animal eating #1 is karmic/unclean in comparison #2 one cannot offer them to God so it can't become Pasoddom. You sound as if you are enjoying-vary much your scholarly persuence-with fervent zill so I won't dissuade you, please do continue noting the time factor I.e.-the one-ditectionl degenerating principal that brings all physical body's to their demise. Might I suggest spending your time on learning to produce & reproducing good karma at this point & them at the end of this life's duration you will be ellagabal to maintain or even improve your present faculties & facilities where as trying to adopt another's understanding of right & or Wong will completely consume you your mind, time & efforts. You o you Krishna's got this. Protecting the innocent from harm & abuce is good. Staying pure & steady is good, honoring & taking the shelter of God is also our duty how ever, the iterrasinkracys of what is the extent of your duty towards the /our fellow inhabitants of this planet are seemingly overly involved & disperporshunit to y-our accrual duty
Hence one can understand the complications of the science of phylasofical approach to what is duty. Y-our duty lyes souly with re-awakening y-our former love of the GodHeads at this point
CHANTING properly will do that. Nothing else will do that & then you can help others in a really meaningful way to do the same. All glory all glory to the Lord with in the heart Parramatma for His for His pastimes of pashunts and love. And all glory to you to Prahbu for you celebratory disposition & the intelligence that has brought you home back to words the Head God!-) Krishna.
Thanks prabhu but,
It is not impractical. I have provided some general practical instances in the question. By the practice, it is possible. You have taken the example of profession only but I am not talking about profession only but in general life. I am agree with you that somehow or other we shall commit sinful activities..This is not my question to be free from that. My question is something different. For more clarification please refer to my reply to Bharat prabhu.
It is not anymore practical to act without some personal motivation. The trend nowadays is to earn money even if it will earn bad karma. People slaughter animals and sell the meat to meat eaters for a profit. People manufacture illegal drugs and sell them to drug addicts. People sell their bodies to the sex starve. People sell alcohol to alcoholics. Politicians lie their way to become prime ministers. People cheat during board exams to get a license. Preachers and Gurus teach their followers the way to love God but do shenanigans in private. It so hard to find people who are righteous. It is difficult to follow God's commandments, so to speak. If people say they commit no sin, they are deemed hypocrites.
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
You answered...
"Whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction ?
This is not a practical scenario. If one is not desiring the fruit of action then why is the person acting ? In most cases action has motivation."
Someone is not desiring the fruit of action but acting because it is his duty
I give some example:
(i) If someone is killing cow before him, it is the duty of a person to protect cow.
(ii) If some woman is being harassed, it is the duty of a person to protect her.
(iii) If someone sees a hungry person, it is the duty of a person to give him food.
(iv) It is the duty of a old or handicapped person require some help, it is the duty of a person to help him.
(v) If we are in Householder life, it is our duty to protect and maintain (along with make them krishna conscious) our family in a good manner (not earning money with sinful activities).
(vi) It is our duty to protect some weak person, if we see he is being exploited by the strong.
etc etc ...
We have motivation for nothing for ourselves then..... are these not NISHKAAM KARMA (actions without personal attachment), that will not bind us.
Hare Krsna,
My obeisances to all devotees, guru and gauranga.
Divyanshu prabhu, I like your name. It sounds divine to even say your name. J
Anyway, prabhu I am not that knowledged but I will give you my view on your post. Please excuse me if anything written is offensive to you.
I don’t see many of your scenarios as practical for an ordinary sadhaka. As Bharath prabhu rightly said, most of the scenarios you have covered requires protection from the law enforcement department. Since the law enforcement department and the judicial system are doing such a crap job, the sinful activities have increased but its already predicted that in this age of Kali, there is only hypocrisy and quarrel and people only think about their needs, try to meet their never ending desires and expectations and sense enjoyment and they care less for other individuals (sometimes even within their own family).
Prabhu, I am not saying cows should be slaughtered, but how many cows are you going to protect from being slaughtered? Is this even practical? How many weak persons and women are you going to save from being harassed and exploited? Is this practical? How many persons are you going to feed every day? Your thoughts are good and most would think along the same lines but we cant save everything and everyone, because we are limited.
This brings to us to scenario (v), where in you apply the caring/protection net over your family. You can try and protect your family members from exploitation and harassment by doing the best you can to keep them safe. You do your bit as the man of the house to provide for the family and keep them engaged in spiritual activities and away from sinful propensities. If this system is followed across all the families, then the above mentioned social problems will slowly fade away and eventually stopped. Your motivation (along with your family members) should be towards spiritual advancement by doing your prescribed duties with the knowledge that these family members are God's property and not mine. With this detached (not abandoned) attitude, progress becomes easy.
I have heard this line which says "Manav seva is Madhav seva", but if we think only about Manav Seva, where do we have the time for spiritual activities? Manav Seva becomes a fruitive activity and we all know that any fruitive activity will bind us. You can carry out Manav seva if you take up a role of a soldier where you are a kshatriya and you can perform the duty of protecting people as your prescribed duty, then that manav seva becomes madhav seva and this will not be binding.
Hence Srila Prabhupada always said, we need to live by the vedic rules and regulations and everyone will be happy. When everyone follows his/her prescribed dharma, society will flourish because the Supreme is satisfied. Once the unlimited and most merciful Supreme is satisfied, He protects everyone.
I don’t know if my response answered your query but this is my limited understanding prabhu.
Chant and be happy.
Hare Krsna
Among the examples mentioned (v) is prescribed duty of householder. As you have mentioned about KC activities withing family, then it becomes action without attachment to the extent the motivation is spiritual. The inner motivations of a person isn't easy to ascertain. To the extent we perform prescribed duties for the pleasure of Krsna to that extent it is Krsna conscious.
The remaining examples mentioned by you are prescribed duties for a kshatriya. It is not duty of everyone.
Hare Krsna
Thanks for your answer but I have related one more doubt. You answered...
"If the others are themselves ordinary people caught up in cycle of birth and death then actions will bind because Krsna is not involved.
The whole point of action/reaction/ bondage etc is to involve Krsna. If Krsna is involved as beneficiary then it is favorable. Else it will not be."
Doubt:-
If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty, thinking that if we help others,then krishna will be pleased. Will it bind us?
Hare Krsna
Whether acting without desiring the fruit of it makes us free from its reaction ?
This is not a practical scenario. If one is not desiring the fruit of action then why is the person acting ? In most cases action has motivation.
Instead if the question is what work doesn't bear any reaction ?
Krsna says " Work done as a sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed; otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage."(Bg 3.9)
So if sole motivation is Krsna then we are free.
If we eat vegetables only and to live only,not for taste. Will it bind us ?
We have to understand that "Life" is extremely dynamic. There will almost never be persons who want to eat and live only and do nothing else. If the question is "how can I eat and be free from bondage"
Krsna says " The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." (BG 3.13)
Considering the case where one doesn't prepare food for sense enjoyment but only survival, even then- if it involves killing or harming other living entities then it will involve sin. If one makes food without harming any other living being - like eating fruits which has fallen on the ground by nature's course will not be sinful.
If we act without our personal gratification, just for helping others and for the pleasure of others as our duty as, Will it bind us ?
This depends on who the "others" are. If the others are Krsna or prefect representatives of Krsna then it will not be binding us. If the others are themselves ordinary people caught up in cycle of birth and death then actions will bind because Krsna is not involved.
The whole point of action/reaction/ bondage etc is to involve Krsna. If Krsna is involved as beneficiary then it is favorable. Else it will not be.
Hare Krsna
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