ISKCON Desire Tree - Devotee Network

Connecting Devotees Worldwide - In Service Of Srila Prabhupada

In other words, do jivas or jivatmas have an origin? The gita says they are beginingless and always separate from the Lord and they're also HIS spiritual energy.

If the jivas/jivatmas, are his spiritual energy,  then doesn't that mean, they emanated or originated from Krishna. I mean energy always emanates from something, like heat energy from the sun etc.

If heat energy can originate from the sun, then shouldn't spiritual energies (jivas) originate from Krishna as well?

How can they be without an origin, when energy always originates / emanates from a source?

Please clear my confusion. Thank you.

Views: 423

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hare Krsna 

Kindly provide specific reference for this - Balarama creates krsnaloka

Hare Krsna

Hare Krsna

Do Jivas emanate from Krishna? do jivas or jivatmas have an origin? 

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes. (Brahma Samhita 5.1)

As said above. Krsna is the origin of all. Hence Sri Krsna is also the origin of jiva also. 

If the jivas/jivatmas, are his spiritual energy,  then doesn't that mean, they emanated or originated from Krishna.

As given in Brahma Samhita, Sri Krsna is the source of all and hence of jiva. But this does not necessarily mean they emanated from Krsna. 

If heat energy can originate from the sun, then shouldn't spiritual energies (jivas) originate from Krishna as well?

Sri Krsna, His pastimes are all beyond mundane logic.

But as said above. Krsna is the origin of all. 

Hare Krsna

Hare Krsna 

In addition to the above Sri Krsna in BG gives the true identity of jiva as below 

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind. (Bg 15.7)

The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here because the Sanskrit word sanātana (eternal) is used. The fragmental portion is eternal.  It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold. (Purport BG 15.7)

Hare Krsna

Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes. (Brahma Samhita 5.1)

As said above. Krsna is the origin of all. Hence Sri Krsna is also the origin of jiva also. 

======

So the jivas have an origin, even though it is not explicitly stated in the scriptures, right?

Just because the scriptures say that Krishna is the origin of all, we have speculated that jivas too must have an origin, is your statement, am i right? ... And yet the scriptures say jivas are eternal & beginingless.

Now these two statements are contradictory.

Either the jivas have a beginning or they don't. It can't be both. 

Hare Krsna 

So the jivas have an origin, even though it is not explicitly stated in the scriptures, right?

The origin of jiva is not in the sense of beginning/creation of the jiva because jiva is eternal. 

The origin of jiva is in the sense of the source of jiva. Jivatma has no source other than Sri Krsna. Sri Krsna is the source of all. As Sri Krsna says in BG 10.7 

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me.(BG 10.7)

Just because the scriptures say that Krishna is the origin of all, we have speculated that jivas too must have an origin, is your statement, am i right?

No

As quoted above Sri Krsna says in BG 15.7 

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts.

This is almost like Sri Krsna claiming the jivatma to be belonging to Him. So in that sense jiva belong to Sri Krsna eternally. 

Either the jivas have a beginning or they don't. It can't be both. 

Jiva does not have a beginning. Sri Krsna clearly says this in Bg

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin

nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato ’yaṁ purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. BG 2.20

But jiva are eternal fragmental parts of Sri Krsna as Sri Krsna has said in BG 15.7

Srila Prabhupada has also clarified this in the purport to BG 15.7

He(Jiva) is eternally fragmented.

The words mamaivāṁśaḥ (“fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord”) are also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part.

It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one with the Lord, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold.

It can be confusing so just remember this -> Jiva is eternally fragmented tiny part and parcel of Sri Krsna.

Hare Krsna

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts.

This is almost like Sri Krsna claiming the jivatma to be belonging to Him. So in that sense jiva belong to Sri Krsna eternally. 

=========

When you say that jivas belong to him eternally, do you mean, jivas are his spiritual energy OR jivas reside with him in his dhama? By eternal fragmental parts we should understand that jivas are his spiritual energy? 

Hare Krsna prabhuji,

PAMHO.

JIvas have been described as marginal energy, not spiritual energy. By marginal energy, it means that the jivatma has a choice, to either go towards the external energy (Maya) or towards the internal energy (Radha). That's why marginal energy.

Once a jivatma qualifies to go to spiritual world, where he will go depends on His desire and the lord's desire. He can be in the same planet as the lord - salokya also, though not necessary. Different jivas serve the lord in different forms - some as grass, some as trees, as cows, as gopas, sakhas, gopis.....

Yes, we all belong to the Lord. We are from Him. He is our eternal father.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Hare Krsna 

Do you mean, jivas are his spiritual energy OR jivas reside with him in his dhama ?

It means jiva are Krsna's energy. Jiva is spiritual in nature. 

By eternal fragmental parts we should understand that jivas are his spiritual energy? 

Yes, in pure state jiva is energy of Sri Krsna having same spiritual nature of sat-cit-ananda like Sri Krsna but jiva is very minute whereas Sri Krsna is infinite. 

In conditioned state jiva is a combinaiton of spiritual and material energy. Gross and subtle body of conditioned living entity is additional layer of covering over the spiritual soul. 

Hare Krsna

Thanks Bharat & Radha ji.

RSS

Receive Daily Nectar

Online Statistics

Back to Godhead Magazine !

For more details:
English | Hindi

© 2019   Created by ISKCON desire tree network.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service